The Skunklab - DWC Stealth Cabinet and 4X4 Tent

hey you know, one thing i have changed is how i prepare the clones. for reference:

i take a block of 2" rockwool cubes and dunk them into the external tank for the tent, at about 1k ppm 6.0ph. swirl and twil until they are soaked.
pull em out, use the flat end of a skewer to dip into jar of great white, then dab the bit of powder down into the hole in the cube.
snip clone, cut inverted V shape into bottom of stem.
dip clone into clonex gel (shake before opening), stick into cube, use skewer again to shape the opening around the stem.
sometimes i will mist them before placing into the dome. if the tea is fresh, i'll use that.
very slight amount of standing water in the dome (same sauce from the tank again).

heat pad turned OFF. plenty hot enough in here to generate humidity without it. walls of the dome stay moist.

note that i'm only using the sauce from the tank because it's sensi Grow sauce. i'll brew lower strength newb juice after i flip the tank to Bloom recipe.

did that make a lick of sense? hope so.

and while we're on the subject, do NOT place hibiscus cuttings or plants anywhere near your pot plants. I'm glad i heeded the warning about how hibiscus are almost always covered in aphids. mine indeed are.

Could be the health of the mother. how big are the ready HS clones?

oh, about yay big. these are all HS except the two on the extreme right, both BD fresh from the dome.


moms, BD on the left, HS on the right


clone chamber. clones are lined up oldest to the right. the few on the extreme right have been in here for probably a month, maybe a little longer. just now showing roots today. whatever's changed, it's working for even the older ones. note i also accidentally spilled tea directly onto a few of the cubes on the right. this was weeks ago, but it seemed like those that got the spill got healthier, started growing and greening, but refused to pop roots out of the wool. figuring because they have been growing inside the cube, getting all they need within. maybe they've finally dried to the point of exploring outward. only one HS left in here, the rest are BD (green tags) and mostly SFV (white). hey speaking of which, that one in the corner shouldn't have a white tag .. wtf ..

I might stick a Hindu Skunk outside, but I'm afraid she will freeze over before finishing up. I might also stick one indoors to try it out.

But as far as how you do clones, it kind of sounds like you do everything wrong, lol. Sorry to be so blunt. But you should be using cubes that are wet, but not dripping, and you should try and keep them in that condition, pH should be a little lower, around 5.7, and the PPM's should be under 250, I normally don't go over 200. The plant is basically starting over again, and any delicate fresh roots that tap out into that solution is going to burn up. That is why it takes weeks of spraying with plain water and spilled tea to make roots, because it is diluting the strong solution already in the rock wool.

Don't mist clones with tea or with fertilizers until they have formed a good root system or if they start getting yellow. It is too easy for the plant to eat through it's leaves, so it will not form roots if it can pull nutrition from the air. It can also cause young root systems that are establishing to go lazy.

Cut major fan leaves in half before sticking the clone into the cube, this will force the cutting to focus on root growth rather than foliage, it will also cut the rate they can transpire. You are right to keep the heat mat off in a hot room, plenty of heat already.

When you take your cuttings, store them in a COLD glass of water with no ice in it until you are ready to transplant, this helps preserve the exposed tissue and really speeds things up. Some people even put clones in the fridge over night in the cup of water with a plastic bag over the top, I've practiced this a few times, hard to say if it speeds anything up, but it lets you put them on the back burner for up to 48 hours after cutting them.

Are you taking your cuts at a 45 degree angle? Or do you do practice another technique?

i cut a notch in the bottom, like the backside of an arrow. have experimented alot with this, results: it really doesn't matter.
yeah my ppm is rickdiculous as usual but i don't spray them down, etc after they're in the dome except for a very occasional tea mist. i try to mist each batch once and only once. agreed everywhere else too, i let the cubes drain off before the cuttings go in. cuttings are always direct into the cube, never stored or anything like that. they are exposed for all of 20 seconds.

have also experimented with cutting leaves, etc like you suggest and again, so far for me anyway, it doesn't matter at all. big clones, little clones, big leaves left on, stripped off, whatever .. either the whole batch roots fine or the whole batch has problems. like the sfv cuttings here. nearly every single one of those cuttings has roots going not even 3 days after cutting on some of them. it's incredible, and conditions are about the same as the last batch. again, there's little ones, big ones, etc. maybe spilling that tea really had a crazy effect.

one thing i have definitely learned is that stem diameter on cuttings is crucial. big fat stem usually means fast roots. dont know if this would extrapolate out to something like a big main stalk stem clone but, shrug, there ya go.

more interestingly tonight, i've narrowly avoided a flood. the drain system on the tent tanks must be improved. the blue dream had roots all the way down into the external res, clogging the 4" drain pipe cap on the way down. water level was well over the flood line but somehow no spillage. shutting down the system produced near flood condition in the external res, with some drainage into the "bilge" between the res and the tote used to double it up.

removed both plants from that res, clipped the BD roots (sorry pal), and back in. pics later. the BD is fucking HUGE! Roots look good but not as seriously massive as I had hoped. Everything healthy.

Need to find a way to keep roots out of the 1" drains. will empty the system for switch to bloom nutrients next week. going to tap a few more 1" drains to help while I figure out wtf for the long term. hopefully we can get by for another week with no bs. was really lucky to notice this, but should have noticed it sooner. i have transparent tubing on each res to monitor the water level, and it was 2"+ over the red line. pilot fail.

Yeah, I've noticed splitting clone stems down the middle, and scraping the sides of the part that is to be rooted really doesn't make a difference. The only technique I have seen make a difference is stripping leaves to expose flesh at the very bottom and a 45 degree angle makes an arguable difference. The problem is, if you strip off or cut too much, that whole portion rots and dies. I think you should definitely cut back that sauce, I think you will get more results than what you got just this time. The tea in the clone tray should have done a great job of building a root culture, and beneficial fungi can dramatically speed up the time it takes to root a clone, it is just risky business because stale tea can go sour quick. The stem diameter of the clones you take is absolutely crucial, this is something I say every time when opening up the cloning class at the dispensary. A main top will sometimes be very slow to root, but will make a strong clone, a small lower branch will make a weak clone and take a very long time to root, a middle branch with a thick stock and no red stem will root in just a few days. The health of the mother is also crucial, she needs to be carbohydrate rich, and needs more calcium than a normal plant would so she can form strong clones. Potassium Silicate also helps moms. Areas with red stems on a non-purple plant are not good areas to clone, you should try and find a solid green stem to cut into. Even on purple plants, I would suggest finding green stem, as I still don't have excellent luck on the purple stem areas, because you can't tell what is natural and what is deficient. But a healthy mom and a thick cut is always the two biggest factors in clone success.

As far as misting with tea, I would still say it's a bad idea unless the clones look like hell. If they are crying out for some extra help, then I would do it. But so far it does not seem like it is adding much benefit to your technique. If you are having PM problems in your clone dome, I do suggest that you continue this practice, it's a great natural PM cure.

Don't leave hot sauce in the clone dome, just plain water or lightly ph'd liquid karma or thrive alive water, whatever you like to use for clones, PPM under 250. Spraying down with plain water every now and then is a great way to keep the humidity up in the dome without changing the composition inside the dome. This keeps stale nutrients out of the bottom of the tray. We are not trying to keep the humidity up for the plant tissue, but so we can keep the root zone (grow medium) at a constant point of near saturation. Totally wet but not dripping, which sounds like that is what you already go for.

Putting clones into the cube fresh is the best way to go about it other than a cold glass of water. Some people still say the cold glass of water helps, but I do not see a lot of difference.

Sucks you had to trim the BD roots, hopefully she wont shock too much from that. Sounds a little drastic, but I understand drastic actions late at night when you want to go to bed. I would stop by lowes next chance you get and get a roll of stainless steel mesh like they use in sinks, or pipe screens, cut out some coins of that and jam those into the drains. Or you can get one of those little drain covers they use for flood and drain tables, you know, the raised drain thing that sticks out, kind of like a nipple? Pop one of those over your drains, and then even if roots cover the front of the drain, the sides are raised far enough off the wall of the reservoir that water should still be able to pass through.

or just stick a piece of pvc into the drain (at the top of the res), then 90 degree it down to the bottom so water will be pushed up the pipe then out.
i thought of this during design but completely neglected to implement it. even with the root-free drains, i will need more drainage from res to 4" pipe.

i actually swear by misting the clones with tea. do it once when the clones go in and you can forget about mold. before i started with this, there's no way a clone would go mold free in the thunderdome for a month. no possible way.

i had been using wooden skewers to keep some clones from bending too much. bad idea. these skewers not only mold, they form giant fuzzy cotton candy all down the length. this stuff was touching the clones. pulled the skewers, zero problems with anything on the clones. this is defnitely the tea talking. our good guy microbes making the plants hostile environment for the bad guys. however, only need to do this once. don't need to hit a clone with it twice, nor do you need to do it everytime there's fresh tea. just once, preferrably as they are placed into the dome.

the tea into the clone cubes did indeed induce rooting. problem with those hasn't been not rooting, problem has been roots not poking out! the things are thriving in the dome, growing new veg, getting taller, but just now poking roots out of the cube like you'd expect. i think the tea made the cube far too much of a welcome environment, with the plants not having any need to bust out until now.


root shots from the BD and the smaller SFV in front of it.


the dark spots are where the thick stuff in the tea has collected. it's not rot, as i thought on previous grows when i saw the discoloration. the dark stuff squeezes and rinses off to reveal very nice white roots. these shots look much browners than they really do.
those stringy ones in the 5th picture are what was growing down into the pipe. i snipped those three, shouldn't be a big deal at all. she'll be fine.
and if your shit looks like that last pic, that's nasty. don't do that.

the big BD. this is in one 10" net pot, sitting in a temp 5gal bucket while i work on the res. there is a 5gal water jug for size reference, can it even be seen?

I think that BD might be able to take up a 1000w by herself almost. That shit on the roots does look extra nasty, I do hope you are right about it just being sludge build up. An army of slimy beneficial microbes. But I do know very well how tea can keep mold off clones in the dome for a long time. I've done it only these last few weeks, when I had that huge PM scare. Luckily everything but my veg closet is totally clean now. Veg closet is on my schedule for this week to redo. But my week is almost over already!

I'm thinking 8 oz on that BD now. As long as temps are good and PM is kept in check. Thank god for this mighty tea.

it's pretty much just extra dirt, solids, etc from the tea making up that buildup. i'm certain that, say straining the tea or otherwise filtering larger particles out would eliminate this buildup. also using a ton of tea like i do contributes to it quite a bit. again though, the stuff washes, squeezes right off the roots to reveal nice shiny whites.

Nice, maybe you should use your wife's more expensive nylons, lol. Keep it clean. I've been using your net pot trick in a nylon since I started, it's fucking brilliant. I am starting to leave the old tea bags on top of my outdoor plants, and just organic soil, tea, and the tea bag has been enough to keep my oldest outdoor plant as green and healthy as possible, non stop. While the younger ones without the tea bag on top with the same soil are already depleted, and need tea + food, which I have been using BioBizz to feed everything that is outside, and I'm starting to just do full organics inside as well. But the tea bag has hosted enough life to keep the plant feed since I popped it out there 2 months ago.

Seriously, fucking love your tea bag idea dude.

all credit to heisenberg, i just tweaked it a bit.

i'd get rid of that tea bag on your plant. remember our good guys begin to die off after 48 hours in ideal conditions. the leftovers can be food for bad guys.

okay so my roots staying contained in cube idea is nonsense. took out one of the hs clones that has been in there for a month. barely any root development at all, just nubs. the fact that it has been doing really well above the roots tells me that the thunderdome has been too moist. it should not have survived a month with only nubs.

the hs in the cabinet is starting to get its stank on. i've heard this strain really puts on the stink during the last two weeks, which is about right if not slightly sooner than i expected. things looking better daily, but man these girls have been constantly dropping fan leaves like nothing i've seen before. the lowers stopped dropping as much after i added the cfls, but overall it's been downright alarming. i've hauled out at least 3x more leaves during flower than i did trimming the scrog.

hs outside is miserable. i get the feeling it does not like the cool nights, which would go along with how well it's doing in the high temp cabinet. the bd took two days to adapt and is now looking fine. both are in about 4gal kellogg garden soil with nrich and some ancient forest. gave a good dose of tea, otherwise they'll be getting drainage from the flowering reservoirs indoors and tap from the sprinklers.

flushed tent reservoir system for bloom nutrients as follows:

@60-70gal tap water at about 6.3ph and 400ppm.
600ml liquid karma
300ml cal/mag plus. note half my preferred 12ml/gal dose since we're using tap.
12.5 tsp big bud powder. first time using the powder, a pain in the ass in comparison. how much $ is this saving again? i know .. probably worth it.
750ml each sensi bloom a & b (ph perfect formula)
to rest at 6.3ph, 1000ppm. letting the ph drop naturally despite it being a tad high at the moment. it should be fine by .. well, now.
tap water has chloramine so not going to bother with tea for a week or two. if the rate of consumption stays roughly the same (@5gal+ per day) then tea will be functional after 7 to 10 days of replenishing with RO.

did not fuck with the drainage system. i can just drain down the two interior tanks a few inches to add more 1" bulkheads. will probably just add a few above the regular drains, where the inside tote sits a few inches higher than the outside tote in the stack. will add some simple pvc to the inside of the interior reservoirs after these harvest.

i did not spray water at the 1000w light this time. my cell phone also survived. improvement.

very pleased with the flowering progress after just one week flipped. these flowers are already much, much further along than any i've ever seen after just a week. especially mega blue dream, shes a couple days faster to launch than the sfv. definitely a HUGE difference after adding the 300w led.

I'll throw out the tea bag then. But it appears so far I've managed to create a suitable environment for beneficial breeding in the tea bag on the soil pot, I'm tempted to leave it. Too moist makes the most sense so far, you should pop a hygrometer in there.

....must buy more MH and LED!

i should have ph downed the tent rather than expect it to drift downward overnight. duh. ph goes up a bit for the first day or two, then down in dwc. well at least in any dwc i've ever done.
this ignorance meant ph 6.7 today. yikes! dropping it down now.

Drop dat shit like a fat chick!

and hey, by tea bag do you mean you are using a new nylon for each brew? i'm still using the first one i started with. just now starting to get holes in it but still no big deal at all.

Thanks for sharing! Looks great! Got a couple questions for ya plz sir......is it a 30 gallon tank with 2 plants per 30 gallon tank? And there is a total of 2 tanks in the tent for a total of 4 plants?? Got confused there a bit.....the picture shows a tote with 2 5 gallon net pots and I wasnt sure exactly....

Been looking for peeps that have used Sensi line in DWC enviroment......have any issues? Have you tried the PH perfect sensi line yet? That is really the information im after...cant seem to find anyone that uses the PH perfect sensi line in RDWC systems.....

Thanks for sharing!

I just read post number 32 and it seems you are using the PH perfect formula!

Got a couple questions for you please. Did you notice the air bubbles actually get larger coming out of the air stones when you add the part A? Also hear a hissing noise as well actually coming from the air stones because of the larger bubbles. This goes away after a couple hours but it is the strangest thing I have ever seen!

Just a FYI, I have spoken to tech support from Advanced Nutrients several times about the PH perfect line, one thing they repeatedly told me was NOT to add cal/mag plus as it will mess up the PH perfect formula. Plus they say there is already more than enough cal/mag in the base formula even if you are using RO. I cant see how you are using such large amounts and not having some sort of issues or stress? Especially since Liquid Karma is also being used. Have you worked out the nutrient profiles to see what your ratios are after adding all these additives at such high dosages? I would be interested in seeing what those numbers are.......

Thanks for sharing!

phenob said:

and hey, by tea bag do you mean you are using a new nylon for each brew? i'm still using the first one i started with. just now starting to get holes in it but still no big deal at all.

Click to expand...

Lol, I always use a fresh one. I'm OCD as fuck about shit like that. Did you know I need a fresh cup every time I refill a drinking glass? It's that bad. I can't stand water bottle sport tops either.

Hi Bullethead. Couple of things lessee here ..

ph perfect - i haven't noticed one bit of difference at all. we talked alot about this in a previous thread and came to the conclusion that, unless you stick to the AN regimen completely, any claim of ph perfect is complete nonsense. adding anything other than something "in the formula", like cal/mag as you say, will negate the ph perfectness. that being said, i tested it vs the standard, usa available sensi grow and found zero difference whatsoever, even when using the suggested AN lineup. i'm not going to bother shipping ph perfect from canada again. not unless i go back to regular sensi and find problems, but i don't anticipate that.

reservoirs - tent has 2x tote reservoirs holding about 30gal each max. there are spaces for 2x 10" net pots in each res, for a total of four spaces in the tent. all four spaces are in use for this grow. these internal reservoirs recirculate to an external res of roughly the same capacity for a total of around 65 - 90 gallons at any given time. i'm running toward the lower end of that range now.

cal/mag - i have never had a useful experience contacting the AN support line. their line is always the same, buy all AN stuff and dump tons of it in there. it works, but i've found in dwc especially we simply must operate in ways that their lineup does not necessarily account for. regardless of all that, i swear by cal/mag. blue dream especially will show red stems and praying leaves when otherwise all is well and sauce ppm is at a known good level. a dose of cal/mag will do the trick. it will also help to keep ph stable for a longer period of time, and it's really, really hard to overdose. 12ml/gal works out to somewhere around 175ppm with RO, which is actually what the AN guy specifically told me to do last time i called in there (about a year ago).

dude that is freakin bizarre about large bubbles. i'd get into the physics of that, which is fascinating, but it's been a long day. never seen anything like that on my end, and thats with bubble discs, standard airstones, and the micro bubble stones i use now. presently, all of my bubblers generate nice tiny fizzy bubbles, and i've seen a marked difference in root development since switching to the micros. especially in my 15gal non-recirculating res.

speaking of that non-recirculating res .. things looking up in the cabinet. maybe this will turn out nicer than i'm expecting. one cola in the back looks damn as frosty as anything i've ever seen. remember i'm using rock resinator in the sauce and snow storm ultra as a foliar, so between the two this should be some sick sick sick frosty goodness.