The skinny on LED's please

coreywebster said:

Many of the old companies with terrible reputation had to change their game up and follow what was happening in the growing market to stay alive.

Though they are producing vastly superior lighting to what they used to, some, like mars, still like to use nonsense to sell their lights and still have poor customer service after the purchase, as well as untrustworthy figures and par maps.

But there are many who don't and many who have come from nowhere .

You'll also see that every old school hps manufacturer/brand also now do LEDs and most are offering them using the original ballasts to power them and are very cheap considering.
Though they typically are less efficient than the best.

You want to be looking at the umol/joule to see the efficiency of the fixture.

The issue is for as many as there are that are trustworthy, there's many more that are not.

In a 4x8 you want minimum 2x 480w lights up to 2x 600w lights.
Granted you could use a light mover on a bigger light, but your dli on either end of the tent would be average and centrally your dli would be far higher.

Because every man and his dog make 600s it probably would be more cost effective to get two of those over a bigger more powerful light.


Just make sure you do your research . There are environmental adjustments need making when switching from HPS to LED, but it hasn't stopped the majority who have swapped over.
But there are some who just couldn't get on with them.
For example the grower with a particularly cold climate might not appreciate having to heat the space with LED, as they don't put out the radiant heat HPS does

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luckybleu said:

I'm in the same boat,building a new room also and was going to get a 1000 watt hps cool tube.My neighbor keeps telling me to get an led.If it wasn't for the heat issue I'd just go with the hps in a heartbeat.So after researching a little I'm even more confused,prices range from like 200. To 1000 for the same wattage LED.So I'll be following this thread and hopefully some people who have experience growing with LEDs can suggest and explain the differences in these prices and tell us what's the best bang for the buck.

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MtRainDog said:

all the brands mentioned here, from the amazon brands (mars, spider, vipar) to hlg (diablo boards are goated imo). all can grow great dope. The technology is now the standard over HID because for most growers, the efficiency of LED vs HID makes it a no brainer.

I say that with the caveat that some people can really dial in a 1000 watt hps or these boutique CMH grows, they do incredible work, and certainly there's still a place for HID and I hope you can still buy that sort of equipment long into the future, because it's still cool as hell.

But pragmatically, there's no reason not to buy one of these LED lights.

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luckybleu said:

Umol/joule is this lumens? What should I be looking for when researching this.
Thanks.

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coreywebster said:

Lumens are a measure of visible light , to our eyes. So not a great metric for grow lights.

umol/j meaning – Micromoles per Joule is a measure of how efficient a light is. It is a measure of how many micromoles of photons you get out of a grow light fixture per Joule of energy.

Generally speaking your generic LED grow light has now reached around 2.5 umol/j and your top end led lights are claiming 3.0 umols/j
( I believe a 600w hps is around 1.6umol/j)

I say claiming because on paper is not always as good as in real life.

But the higher the number the more photos per unit of energy used.

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BullPower said:

The heat thing is my only logic and would be the only reasy why. Stand alone building.

Probably bite the bullet though and get some leds. Buddy is talking underlight and everything. Sounds like we might try a bit if everything here. Lol. I'm trying to be as inexpensive as possible myself. Let the first run pay for better stuff. Is there a light that's good for a solid 6x6 foot print? A big legit bar light that'd provide plenty?

Got one in mind. Just curious if anyone has a better idea.

We've already got oil radiator type heaters. Fans. Fan controllers. So might ad well gi the led route.

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BullPower said:

The heat thing is my only logic and would be the only reasy why. Stand alone building.

Probably bite the bullet though and get some leds. Buddy is talking underlight and everything. Sounds like we might try a bit if everything here. Lol. I'm trying to be as inexpensive as possible myself. Let the first run pay for better stuff. Is there a light that's good for a solid 6x6 foot print? A big legit bar light that'd provide plenty?

Got one in mind. Just curious if anyone has a better idea.

We've already got oil radiator type heaters. Fans. Fan controllers. So might ad well gi the led route.

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Mumbeltypeg said:

I’m not really recommending them, but I have mars hydro lights.. from the sp3000- fc6500- fc8000-fc1000.. they grow awesome bud but I had wires melting on both of my FC6500 and I had to pull apart and rewire all connections myself to be safe.
Also.. I bought a second hand split system AC cheap ($100) and set it up myself..works great with the LEDs.. that constant temp is worth every penny

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Rocket Soul said:

Youre better off trying to find 4x 3x3 lights instead of one 6x6 light. A 6x6 light would need around 1200w plus good light spread; its just easier all around growing with more but smaller lights.

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BullPower said:

I can see what you mean. Being that there's roughly a 10x12, that breaks down to x4 5x6 quadrants to fill in. Isn't going to be filled to the max right off the jump, but should be loaded before long.

My partner is 100% getting a 1000w Spider Farm and a mover for a section. Lol. Which I'm looking forward to seeing how it do.

I'm leaning towards 600-750w bar lights. Good quality lights but I don't care about brand names. I'm looking at bang for buck. I welcome light suggestions 100%.

Am I right in thinking the bar style are much better than the panel style?

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BullPower said:

<snip>

Am I right in thinking the bar style are much better than the panel style?

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MtRainDog said:

If something goes wrong, you only need to send one out. If you only have one big one and something goes wrong...

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coreywebster said:

Lumens are a measure of visible light , to our eyes. So not a great metric for grow lights.

umol/j meaning – Micromoles per Joule is a measure of how efficient a light is. It is a measure of how many micromoles of photons you get out of a grow light fixture per Joule of energy.

Generally speaking your generic LED grow light has now reached around 2.5 umol/j and your top end led lights are claiming 3.0 umols/j
( I believe a 600w hps is around 1.6umol/j)

I say claiming because on paper is not always as good as in real life.

But the higher the number the more photos per unit of energy used.

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lungbutter said:

After many years of messing with several different led light i now generally prefer to use them as supplemental light only, I had a 600w lumatek zeus pro over a scrog for years and ended up only ever going to 50 or 75% power because at full power the plants were not happy. To cap it off the thing was massive and weighed a ton, plus i had to add heaters to get the temps up. Recently i went back to a hps and cmh combo, we'll see how it compares.
I still use smaller ones in the corners here and there but rarely above 50%.

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jimihendrix1 said:

Ive wondered about this.

Ok, Lumens??

Considering most all of the LED spectrum is 400nm-730nm, most of the light, IS IN THE VISIBLE LIGHT SPECTRUM. Correct??

So, in this case, Lumens, would be one way to determine the intensity of the light output?? I dont see how, Lumens, dont matter, in this case?

Another thing to think about?

Metal Halide. Specifically Hortilux Blue, and the NEW MassMedicalStrains Halide, have a spectrum of 280nm-2000nm+. No LED, can come anywhere near that spectrum. 6000k. Sun is 5500k-5800k.

The new MMS bulb-1000w, is 20% more powerful vs the Hortilux Blue, and is $100+ usd cheaper. About $70usd, and they sell out fast.
It is also true, Red, produces more Photons ect, as in the 1000w Hortilux HPS. The production on HPS, will be a bit more, at the expense of different plant expressions, using the Halide.

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