The rich get richer and the poor fet F---ed

medicineman

New Member
And you thought the rich paid their fair share:

NH4 writes "70 mostly tiny nations, like the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, and Jersey, offer no-tax or low-tax status to the wealthy so they can stash their money out of the reach of the tax authorities back home. These jurisdictions are called tax havens. The 3 million shell companies set up in these tax havens are now home to $11.5 trillion in assets, including 26% of all US stocks and 31% of all of the world's assets, not counting additional trillions of dollars parked in these countries by multinational companies rather than individuals. The US alone probably loses about $60 billion a year in tax revenues as a consequence of the use of tax havens — more than the total value of all foreign aid in the world — and approximately $255 billion is lost in taxes globally. In the late 1990s, negotiators from industrial nations reached an agreement to pressure tax haven countries to stop facilitating money laundering, drug dealing, and tax evasion. The deal was championed by the Clinton administration, but was squashed by the new Bush administration. After 9/11, though, the Bush Administration realized that terrorists and drug dealers use the same international financial channels as tax dodgers, and it has become less supportive of bank secrecy and other non-disclosure policies. If you have enough money, it's pretty easy to find places to stash your assets. But how do tax havens help you reduce taxes? Here are a few examples. Let's say you want to purchase stocks or other US assets but don't want to face steep tax rates if you resell them at a profit. Set up a shell corporation in the Caymans, move your money into a corporate bank account there, buy the stocks or assets through the shell company, and when you resell them you pay a 1% tax instead of 30+% in the US. (You need some of that money back for personal expenses? Borrow it from your own company at interest, make interest payments to yourself, and then take the interest payments off your federal income tax.) Or let's say you want to start an import-export business, taking goods across the US-Canadian border. Instead of making a profit in the US or Canada, and paying US or Canadian tax rates, you technically (on paper) export the goods from, say, Canada to Bermuda and then from Bermuda to the US, with 95% of the ultimate mark-up taking place in Bermuda. The Canadian and US "companies" make very little profit and pay very little in North American taxes, while the Bermuda "company" makes a terrific profit and pays almost nothing in local taxes. If ordinary middle-class people can figure out way to avoid taxes by shipping their money off-shore, you can only imagine what giant corporations with thousands of lawyers and accountants on their payrolls and business activities in dozens of countries can dream up. Can anything really be done to limit the effectiveness of tax havens in cutting US and European taxes? A pioneer opponent of tax evasion through tax havens, Sen. Carl Levin (D) of Michigan, has joined with Sen. Norm Coleman (R) of Minnesota to sponsor the Tax Shelter and Tax Haven Reform Act. Levin and Coleman determined that respected accounting firms, banks, investment advisors, and lawyers have become high-powered engines behind the design and sale of "abusive tax shelters." The investigation and subsequent hearings uncovered evidence that these tax advisors cook up one complex scheme after another, package them as generic "tax products" and then devise elaborate marketing efforts to peddle these products to thousands of people across the country. The proposed Act would enable the Treasury secretary to designate a tax haven as "uncooperative" with Internal Revenue Service investigations. Though not a panacea, the bill, soon to be reintroduced in the current Congress, would give tax investigators new weapons in the fight against "abusive" shelters. But if tax havens have rendered income taxation progressive in name and on paper only, perhaps it's time to consider alternative forms of taxation, like consumption taxes or financial transaction taxes, which would be more difficult for giant corporations and the rich to avoid. Hey Vi this give you any Ideas?
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
More of this money that is leaving country temporarily due to current tax laws will convert to permanent status offshore...wealthy people modify their behaviour to keep abreast of changing tax laws. Political larceny.
Politics of greed and envy.
A consumption tax is a great idea! It would bring back a lot of offshore loot and probably generate more revenue.
No worries though med...looks like GWB is gonna raise taxes anyway...maybe...ewwww!
:spew:


[FONT=Verdana, Times]That is why it is so odd that rumors swarm around Washington that the president may be willing to raise taxes as part of a "deal" on entitlement reform. In particular, the rumors suggest the president might be willing to get rid of the provision that caps the income level used to compute Social Security taxes and benefits. These rumors aren't without substance; last year the president would not rule out raising the cap when asked.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]Doing so would raise the marginal tax rate on the entrepreneurs that Mr. Bush credits for having led the economic recovery by more than 10 percentage points. The new effective rate would be five percentage points above the level when he took office. Moreover, in 2011, the rate would go up a further 4.3 percentage points to an effective 53% marginal rate on entrepreneurial income. The president would thus be not just raising taxes on entrepreneurs to well above the levels that prevailed in the Clinton administration, but to a rate higher than that which prevailed in the Carter administration. Most of the improved incentives for entrepreneurship and work brought about under Reagan would be repealed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]excerpted:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Times]http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009299
[/FONT]
 

ViRedd

New Member
Money is like water ... it follows the path of least resistance. Want the economy to really boom? Just eliminate the capital gains tax on America-based investments and see what happens.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Money is like water ... it follows the path of least resistance. Want the economy to really boom? Just eliminate the capital gains tax on America-based investments and see what happens.

Vi
Actually I think it is exactly the opposite of water because it always runs uphill, the only downhill theory that I ever saw was Reagons trickle down theory, and believe me that was a very small stream and it has completely dried up
 

ViRedd

New Member
And the DOW is at what today? Interests rates are where today? The percentage of home ownership is what today? The unemployment figures are what today? Consumer confidence is where today?

All of the above is the result of tax cuts. Like I said, eliminate the capital gains tax and the sky is the limit.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
And the DOW is at what today? Interests rates are where today? The percentage of home ownership is what today? The unemployment figures are what today? Consumer confidence is where today?

All of the above is the result of tax cuts. Like I said, eliminate the capital gains tax and the sky is the limit.

Vi
Pure Un-adulterated Hores shit. these are Government figures. I thought you were the one not trusting Government statistics> get in your Rolls and drive to downtown anywhere and you'll see the real stats. Those sre stats made by rich men, of rich men and for rich men. The news outlets are controlled by rich men. so if your not in on it, you either have to believe that horseshit or not. I prefer to not! I mean, come-on now, Did not Willy Hearst, (who also got away with murder) bring down the wrath that changed the drug laws. An A+ example of how rich men controll the minds of the public. I prefer to think by looking at as much of the whole picture as I can get and then choosing what seems most reasonable to my mind. I also look at the Media stats as a part of the whole, by knowing the fact that the smoother you can lie, the farther up the economic ladder you can go, I can truly believe these so-called facts to be about the slickest lies ever told to us. Stuff like this must be sorted out before you can make up the "mind", I think I have a clearer view than most. Most people are so brainwashed by the media, that they just believe that pile of crap you just posted. Even when their cars are being re-pod, their savings accounts are getting slimmer, medical bills are piling up, They're in bankruptcy and their house is in foreclosure, and life as they once knew it is getting farther and farther away. Speal on, You know I probably wont believe even 10% of what you spout, but I'll give it consideration, if it's not redundant and boring! What you have yet to learn is that there are millions of people that think almost 180 degrees from you, and a few thousand that think like you, unfortunatly for me, they're all on this site!
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Uhhh Vi, you and I both know that the Stock Market can crash pretty hard on a moment's notice.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Med sez ...

"Pure Un-adulterated Hores shit. these are Government figures."

OK, Mr. 40-watt-bulb, show us the "true" statistics and where you've gotten them from.

Dank sez ...

"Uhhh Vi, you and I both know that the Stock Market can crash pretty hard on a moment's notice."

Yes it can, and most likely will, just as soon as the Democrats raise taxes.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Med sez ...

"Pure Un-adulterated Hores shit. these are Government figures."

OK, Mr. 40-watt-bulb, show us the "true" statistics and where you've gotten them from.

Dank sez ...

"Uhhh Vi, you and I both know that the Stock Market can crash pretty hard on a moment's notice."

Yes it can, and most likely will, just as soon as the Democrats raise taxes.

Vi
Yup, Just more plutocratic horseshit, I'm thinkin maybe 15 watts here!
 

ViRedd

New Member
"Yup, Just more plutocratic horseshit, I'm thinkin maybe 15 watts here!"

Ahhh, but the request was "show us the "true" statistics and where you've gotten them from." But as usual, I'll take your non-answer to mean that you don't have a fucking clue as to what you speak.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
"Yup, Just more plutocratic horseshit, I'm thinkin maybe 15 watts here!"

Ahhh, but the request was "show us the "true" statistics and where you've gotten them from." But as usual, I'll take your non-answer to mean that you don't have a fucking clue as to what you speak.

Vi
And your statistics are the word? Bullshit or horseshit either one will suffice. You my friend are living in a fantasy land, Sometime soon I hope, you are in for a rude awakening! Look in your closet, I think you'll see the straightjacket you should be wearing!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Med ...

Don't bother with the entire question, just show us where the DOW figures comes from the governement. Thanks ...

Vi
 
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