The Old Testament And My Quasi Beliefs.

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
You are mostly correct, but it was Martin Luther that first translated the bible from the Greek version. But I don't think that it was translated into English at that point. The very first language the Bible was translated to after the Greek was into German by Martin Luther. Martin Luther's translation was released to the general public in 1534 and the King James Version was released in 1611. Either way the guy you responded to was way off base.
I was speaking mainly of England and the shift from papal control to the people. There were earlier attempts to translate into the English language but were lackluster at best.

The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe.
 

sso

Well-Known Member
the old testament is basically a collection of stories along with sayings of what were considered holy men at the time.

similar to the indian collections.

some of those stories have been found out to be true, at least in basis. (ruins and such were found in what were thought to be the right locations)
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
Almost had it, but yet again not quite. Only the first five books of the old testament are the Torah. And no its not a bastardized version at all. We still have original manuscripts of the Torah in the original Hebrew and Aramaic. We also know a great deal about Hebrew and can verify the accuracy of current translations. As for the Quran it was written by Muhammad who was from the city of Mecca. Which is an Arabic city.
Once again. It is Archaeological speculation that there is a connection to the Qur'an and the Samaritan religion. Bastardized is actually a good description. If you take umbrage with that term then you'll need to argue with some prominent Biblical scholars.
 

crackerboy

Active Member
Once again. It is Archaeological speculation that there is a connection to the Qur'an and the Samaritan religion. Bastardized is actually a good description. If you take umbrage with that term then you'll need to argue with some prominent Biblical scholars.
No serious Biblical scholar would say that because it is factually not true.
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
No serious Biblical scholar would say that because it is factually not true.
says you. :p

"The difference in Teaching and Testament is the same difference between Knowledge and Dogma; knowledge is taught through the give and take initiated by questions, whereas dogma rejects questions, demanding faith without reason. By changing Torah to Testament, Christians have changed the meaning and intention of this ancient prophetic text. The Torah is called Torat Emet/Teaching of Truth; the Bible, both the New and Old Testament, is historical fiction. The New Testament can not stand up without the Old Testament which is bastardization of the original text"
I would dig up more but I just don't give a shit. Have a nice day. :)
 

Eric Miller

Member
i have my own beliefs on the book in it entirety. it has a good message but should not be taken literally. love, giving when you can, and many others. it should be how everyone lives daily. i was forced to believe that if i didnt submit to "gods will" in a christian church i would be lost but why should it be necessary to treat somebody like the plague if they dont believe as the majority. i think that is wrong.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Almost had it, but yet again not quite. Only the first five books of the old testament are the Torah. And no its not a bastardized version at all. We still have original manuscripts of the Torah in the original Hebrew and Aramaic. We also know a great deal about Hebrew and can verify the accuracy of current translations. As for the Quran it was written by Muhammad who was from the city of Mecca. Which is an Arabic city.
Yet you still insist the that Isaiah 7:14 actually meant virgin. :lol:
 

crackerboy

Active Member
Yet you still insist the that Isaiah 7:14 actually meant virgin. :lol:

That is correct and I gave a full explanation of how the translation was made. And you responded with insults. Hmm I think I see a trend forming hear. I provide solid factual information on how the translations are made and you get frustrated and insult me. I even gave specific books to reference for my information. Once again you can go back and look in the Strongs Concise Concordance and the vines dictionary with Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek translations and commentaries. These are recognized world wide as the most accurate English translations. Alright now that I have given you information it is your turn to insult me.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
That is correct and I gave a full explanation of how the translation was made. And you responded with insults. Hmm I think I see a trend forming hear. I provide solid factual information on how the translations are made and you get frustrated and insult me. I even gave specific books to reference for my information. Once again you can go back and look in the Strongs Concise Concordance and the vines dictionary with Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek translations and commentaries. These are recognized world wide as the most accurate English translations. Alright now that I have given you information it is your turn to insult me.
Wrong again.
I responded with facts. The fact is that the word used in the Hebrew bible -- almah -- has the meaning of young woman or maiden and not specifically virgin. Not only that but there were instances in the Hebrew bible that a different word, bethulah, was used that DOES mean virgin but that word was not used by Isaiah. The fact that the writer of Matthew mistranslated it for his own ends does not need any elaboration or have anything to do with translations into English. Matthew not only translated the word incorrectly, he ripped it out of context which leads to the 'duel prophecy' line of bullshit apologists have invented.

The following cut & paste also applies to you:
Regarding your assertion that Matthew was quoting from the Septuagint, nowhere in the Book of Matthew does the word Septuagint appear, or, for that matter, is there any reference to a Greek translation of the Bible ever mentioned in all of the New Testament; and there is good reason for this. The first century church was well aware that a Jewish audience would be thoroughly unimpressed by a claim that Jesus' virgin birth could only be supported by a Greek translation of the Bible. They understood that if Jews were to find their Christian message convincing, they would need to assert that it was the actual words of the prophet Isaiah that clearly foretold Mary's virgin conception, not from the words of a Greek translation. Therefore, in Matthew 1:22-23, the author of the first Gospel insists that it was "spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 'Behold, a virgin shall be with child . . . .' " Matthew loudly makes the point that it was specifically the prophet's own words that proclaimed the virgin birth, not the words of any translator.
Isaiah, of course, did not preach or write in Greek, and therefore the word parthenos never left the lips of the prophet throughout his life. All 66 chapters of the Book of Isaiah were spoken and then recorded in the Hebrew language alone. Matthew, however, was attempting to place in the mind of his intended Jewish reader that it was the words of prophet Isaiah himself which declared that the messiah would be born of a virgin. Nothing of course could be further from the truth.
Furthermore, this contention becomes even more preposterous when we consider that the same missionaries who attempt to explain away Matthew's mistranslation of the Hebrew word alma by claiming that Matthew used a Septuagint when he quoted Isaiah 7:14 also steadfastly maintain that the entire first Gospel was divinely inspired. That is to say, these same Christian missionaries insist that every word of the New Testament, Matthew included, was authored through the Holy Spirit and is therefore the living word of God. Are these evangelical apologists therefore claiming that God needed a Greek translation of the Bible and therefore quoted from the Septuagint? Did the passing of 500 years since His last book cause God to forget how to read Hebrew that He would need to rely on a translation? Why would God need to quote from the Septuagint?
Matthew's mistranslation of the Hebrew word alma was deliberate, not the result of his unwitting decision to quote from a defective Greek translation of the Bible. This is evidenced by the fact that the context of Isaiah 7:14 is not speaking of the birth of a messiah at all.5 This fact remains obvious even to the most casual reader of the seventh chapter of Isaiah.​
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Yep, it could also mean very young girl as well. But don't tell Mindphuk that or he will insult you.
Continued lies that I am always insulting you is in itself a personal attack. If you feel insulted when your unsubstantiated claims get completely pwned, you should be more upset with the sources you got your information from and not at the person that demonstrates that they are full of shit.
 
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