The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

Uncle Ben said:
With those nutes, your plants are toast.

Par for the course.
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update. i fed them 3 days ago with a full dose of age old bloom plus a full dose of general organics camg+. They look like they are bouncing back. A few more leafs have faded a little yellow but some of the yellow leafs are getting their green back. Leafs stopped doing the weird bending stuff and all black spots are now gone :) . For now it looks like i am on course for recovery. We will see how the next few days go. I will put up pictures later. Oh and growth is going great. Had to tie up some branches do to too much weight up top.
 
Uncle Ben said:
Case in point, here is an example of how important it is to maintain leaves in a healthy green condition. I added a little too much blood meal to my potting soil, didn't get any burn though and that's what's important. The side benefit of maintaining leaf health is getting a double harvest too. Harvest #1 - snip the cola at a point where it turns from a "fat can" to airy buds, and place the plant back under the lights to bulk up them up, for harvest #2....it makes a big difference in overall yield.

42 days into flowering with LOT'S of chlorophyll: ;)

360669d1237640432-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom-trainxsweettooth42daysflowera1_15_04.jpg



70 days into flowering. Cola is about 24" long, about 3" - 6" in girth:

360670d1237640432-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom-trainxsweettooth70daysflower2_12_04.jpg



Harvest, fan leaves looking pretty worn but still hanging on:

360671d1237640432-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom-trainxsweettoothharvest-1-2_7_04.jpg


Cola macro showing very dense bud structure:

360672d1237640432-never-ending-abuse-phosphorous-bloom-trainxsweettoothharvestmacro2_22_04.jpg


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In a couple of those pics you had yellowing leaves. At what point is yellowing leaves ok to where I don't have to worry about upping the nitrogen?
 
Those were the early days when I too bought into the high P bloom foods.

I don't have a firm answer for you other than you need go get started and learn from experience. A balanced food will work if you need a point to start from.

UB
 
What are your thoughts on curing? Do you? And if so What methods worked best for you? Mels book had a bunch and even said some people don't at all
 
Uncle Ben said:
Would probably be fine but it's high in Ca and low in Fe. If you're water supply is low in Ca, try it. Check out the Citrus FeED.
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We use RO which has no Ca or Mg to speak of. Which is why this was appealing. We grow in Coco so this would give us our nutes and our Cal Mag in 1 stop shop.

Wish I could try less than 25lbs!
 
Uncle Ben said:
The question is - "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"
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Very good read Ben. I don't understand why you would want to support the leaves when even the plant doesn't want the leaves and is trying to get rid of them? When grown correctly your plants will still begin to drop leaves at a certain stage, it has too, life is shot. If you know botany then you know that a flowering plant will change from leaf production to flower production. You and your leaves???? The plant is getting rid of them and your forcing them to keep them. What's worse? Not everyone has the ability to read their plants and feed accordingly and for this reason bloom formula's was marketed. I agree they are abused and not used properly but when the general public has no clue, what do you expect? JAS
 
Hola from Canada UB..

I know your a fan of jacks 10-30-20 but its a real bitch and expensive to get it up here. whats your opinion on 15 30 15 for bloom ? Is it to much N and not enough K ? or does that fit the bill ?

Peace, LM
 
lilman said:
Hola from Canada UB..

I know your a fan of jacks 10-30-20 but its a real bitch and expensive to get it up here. whats your opinion on 15 30 15 for bloom ? Is it to much N and not enough K ? or does that fit the bill ?

Peace, LM
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Probably not enough N and too much P. Try it. If you get premature leaf drop, it's not a good thing.
 
JonnyAppleSeed420 said:
Very good read Ben. I don't understand why you would want to support the leaves when even the plant doesn't want the leaves and is trying to get rid of them? When grown correctly your plants will still begin to drop leaves at a certain stage, it has too, life is shot. If you know botany then you know that a flowering plant will change from leaf production to flower production. You and your leaves???? The plant is getting rid of them and your forcing them to keep them. What's worse? Not everyone has the ability to read their plants and feed accordingly and for this reason bloom formula's was marketed. I agree they are abused and not used properly but when the general public has no clue, what do you expect? JAS
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I have to ask how you force a plant to keep it's leaves? If a plant works as you describe, it'll get rid of the leaves regardless of nutrients right? When I read stuff like this....I always ask "How do outdoor growers flush or deprive a plant of nutrients?" since outdoor growing is all about nature to begin with. Look through anyone's outdoor grow pics just before harvest....do you see any yellowing or dropping of leaves as you describe?
 
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Uncle Ben said:
Probably not enough N and too much P. Try it. If you get premature leaf drop, it's not a good thing.
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Hi Uncle Ben, seen you over a decade and a half ago on overgrow I believe, your a good soil grower. May I ask you a few questions I don't understand? I don't understand why you say this is not enough N and too much P. You recommended a 10-30-20 which is basically 2-6-4. He asked about a 15-30-15 which is 3-6-3. How is this not enough N and too much P? It looks like the same amount of phosphorus and more nitrogen. Just has slightly less potassium or am I wrong here?
 
LarryOG said:
Hi Uncle Ben, seen you over a decade and a half ago on overgrow I believe, your a good soil grower. May I ask you a few questions I don't understand? I don't understand why you say this is not enough N and too much P. You recommended a 10-30-20 which is basically 2-6-4. He asked about a 15-30-15 which is 3-6-3. How is this not enough N and too much P? It looks like the same amount of phosphorus and more nitrogen. Just has slightly less potassium or am I wrong here?
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Man, that does go way back!

Whether you're using a 10-30-20 or a 15-30-15, as I have said many times using one of my usual caveats, the exclusive use of such a high P food can induce premature leaf drop. A high P food can also induce micro deficiencies, something Jack Peters addressed when he formulated his bloom food. I also love Peters Citrus FeED. It's another great food. Lots of choices out there.....

Best,
Tio
 
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