The "I don't starve my plants before harvest" thread

[wbd]

I'm not agreeing on pre-harvest flushing not harming your plants.
I myself have said that I think it might lower productivity, since I believe the same conditions as for ryegrass on nutrient storage are applicable for cannabis and therefor I believe that giving your plants deficiency will lower potential yield.
I don't see where (the fact that causing deficiency isn't harmful) this is backed by good science or common sense either.

"Might"... Exactly.

I meant that the deficiency being harmful is backed by good science and common sense (not the opposite). Your claim in supported by theory only, not by demonstration. Still, the best we can demonstrate in practice is "no difference".

I am suggesting that all mights, maybes, could be's and feelings be rejected universally... not just on the pro-flushing side of things. Let's stick with what we can demonstrate in reality, not just on paper.

 

[VanishingToaster]

you should never flush to the point of deficiency, u add plain water cause theres enough to do the plant in there already. that is starving your plants

 

[donmagicjuan]

And buddy if your plants are "perking up" when you water them, its probably a sign they need water more frequently, they should never need "perking up".

I love when the new guy calls the experienced guys trolls whilst trolling a thread himself, stating if he doesn't pull the handle before harvest his plants taste like crap.

like i said u dont know shit go drown a plant cause you got no experience you look to ur little troll buddies to back you up my plants dont taste like crap learn to read with ur sparkler bowlpack

 

[rocpilefsj]

like i said u dont know shit go drown a plant cause you got no experience you look to ur little troll buddies to back you up my plants dont taste like crap learn to read with ur sparkler bowlpack

Have you ever tried not flushing your plants? Or are you just stating it as a must because that is what you have read?

 

[VanishingToaster]

sparking is more likely due to improper drying/curing. seen mites give off little sparks, explain to me whats actually making the spark in your head?

 

[Eraserhead]

I would've thought that maybe the spark is from the flint from the lighter, when you light the bowl, some of the flint lands into the bowl, and some of it will spark when a flame is put to it.

Nutes will not make weed spark.

 

[jpowers]

I've been growing for over 40 years now and attended the Cannabis cup many times and talked to many master growers and none of them flush.

You need to understand, if you flush before harvest, basically all the "bad" nutrients like nitrogen will move into the buds and by the time you harvest, the buds will probably have 85-90% nitrogen left in them. Now that means the buds only have 10-15% less nitrogen in them instead of say 100% that they would have if you did not flush and kept feeding the plants till harvest. The difference? A little less nutes, NOWHERE NEAR NUTELESS BUD, but because you did not feed the plant for the last 2 weeks, the most vital 2 weeks in the plants entire life, you just lost about 10-15% of bud growth.

In my 40 years of growing I notice that the last 2 weeks of flower show the fastest growth. If you stop feeding the plant it certainly won't die but like any living organism it will slow down or stop growth and go into survival mode. Instead of building more storage space for nutes (such as leaves, bud) it will stop that production as it's no longer needed and all energy will go into staying alive with a little devoted to seed production if your females have been pollinated.

Nutrients are fuel to every living organism, be it humans or plants, without fuel you cannot function properly and at peak performance.

Now I'm not saying that the bud may not have a chemical taste to it due to this but this is what the cure process is for, even the most harshest bud will be smooth as silk after a months cure.

 

[jpowers]

I would've thought that maybe the spark is from the flint from the lighter, when you light the bowl, some of the flint lands into the bowl, and some of it will spark when a flame is put to it.

Nutes will not make weed spark.

The sparks come from pockets of flammable gas that are trapped inside the bud sacs. I'm sure you've noticed plenty of times that these sparks are usually accompanied by small pieces flying out, that's due to the gas igniting and discharging out of the most weakest part which is usually the top as that's what's being burnt.

 

[Rumple]

I emailed George Cervantes to see if he can give another prospective on this subject (he has been to a few cups). I hope he does not think I'm stalking him.
Will post his reply.

 

[Harrekin]

One thing I always wondered was how come seed companies always have perfectly green plants in their pictures yet people insist they need to yellow "naturally" before harvest.

Why do the seed companies keep their plants green till harvest? Are they doing it "wrong"? Lol.

 

[k0ijn]

"Might"... Exactly.

I meant that the deficiency being harmful is backed by good science and common sense (not the opposite). Your claim in supported by theory only, not by demonstration. Still, the best we can demonstrate in practice is "no difference".

I am suggesting that all mights, maybes, could be's and feelings be rejected universally... not just on the pro-flushing side of things. Let's stick with what we can demonstrate in reality, not just on paper.

If you agree that deficiency is harmful to plants (and that this is backed by good science and common sense) then why do you find the need to reject the theory I stipulated, about nutrient storage in cannabis and how that relates to pre-harvest flushing?
It is after all only a theory and I make sure to make it clear it's a theory, I have never claimed it to be scientific fact.
One day I hope to do so though, but the scientific research is lacking at the moment.

Even if we do reject all theories and focus solely on scientific fact, we're still left with:

Why go through the hassle of pre-harvest flushing, getting new water, replacing water (getting rid of the old solution), running it through the system, re-pH'ing etc (which can be a genuine hassle if you have a medium sized grow or larger) if it doesn't improve your grow in any way?

-

you should never flush to the point of deficiency, u add plain water cause theres enough to do the plant in there already. that is starving your plants

However, most people who pre-harvest flush, flush with pure tap water, RO water and cause deficiency within days.
It lies in the definition of pre-harvest flushing that you cause a deficiency, since most people who do it, simply remove their nutrient solution completely.
The general advice on pre-harvest flushing from "pre-harvest flushing experts" is: "flush with pure water".

A little less nutes, NOWHERE NEAR NUTELESS BUD, but because you did not feed the plant for the last 2 weeks, the most vital 2 weeks in the plants entire life, you just lost about 10-15% of bud growth.

That is basically the same as my theory of nutrient storage, usage and productivity loss by deficiency.
And I agree with you, people pre-harvest flushing are starving their plants in the most critical phase of growing, where most growth is achieved by the plants and thus, a loss of yield should be noticeable due to the deficiency.
However, we don't have scientific studies showing this, it's still a viable theory in my opinion.

 

[donmagicjuan]

Have you ever tried not flushing your plants? Or are you just stating it as a must because that is what you have read?

i always flush i wait until its basically done and the last few days flush it well clean water in = clean water in product, fertilizer dosed water in= fertilizer dosed product sorry dudes

 

[Harrekin]

i always flush i wait until its basically done and the last few days flush it well clean water in = clean water in product, fertilizer dosed water in= fertilizer dosed product sorry dudes

Funny how you're high and mighty but have no clue even how water and nutrients are taken up and transported in the plant.
*facepalm*

 

[SirLancelot]

i always flush i wait until its basically done and the last few days flush it well clean water in = clean water in product, fertilizer dosed water in= fertilizer dosed product sorry dudes

Originally Posted by Harrekin
Funny how you're high and mighty but have no clue even how water and nutrients are taken up and transported in the plant.
*facepalm*



Or even have any first hand experience, Do yourself a favor try not flushing one of your plants and cure it properly. Now comes the toughest part, suck up your pride and do a non biased blind taste test of flushed and unflushed weed. You will then have an understanding of the conversation and not blurt out fables. Lets be pro-active do some investigating on your own
and find out for yourself.

I just don't get how someone can stand so strongly on flushing with no knowledge of not flushing.

 

[Rumple]

Rumpleforskin,

You are correct to flush and might even want to flush for a few days longer.
Many uninformed people tell stories.

I'm a bit difficult to get a hold of because I am in Spain for the next few
months. I should be at a public event in CA sometime this summer or fall.

Thanks for the offer,

Jorge

-----Original Message-----
From:Edited
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:32 AM
To: [email protected]


Jorge, I have talked to you in the past a bunch of times (about your stuff
being pirated) yet I still don't have a proper email address for you my
brotha.

I need a professional opinion on the subject of flushing before harvest.
I keep hearing statement like this "I've been growing for over 40 years now
and attended the Cannabis cup many times and talked to many master growers
and none of them flush."
Have I been doing this shit all wrong? Or is this type of comment just
fantasy? I have always flushed with pure water seven to ten days before
harvest.

Another thing... You said you would test some of my fine California indoor
bud next time you came to Cali. How can I hook up with you to give you a
nice jar of samples for you to test?
Would love to hear from you.
Rumple.

 

[k0ijn]

Rumpleforskin,

You are correct to flush and might even want to flush for a few days longer.
Many uninformed people tell stories.

I'm a bit difficult to get a hold of because I am in Spain for the next few
months. I should be at a public event in CA sometime this summer or fall.

Thanks for the offer,

Jorge

Ah yes because Jorge Cervantes is the world renowned expert in Cannabis.
He is not just a author who copies what other people have written.

Well explained by him btw;

You are correct to flush and might even want to flush for a few days longer.
Many uninformed people tell stories.

That really puts the whole issue to rest huh?
I mean this guy probably doesn't even know how nutrients are stored in cannabis, nor how they are transported within the plant.
I don't see him using scientific studies to backup his theories.
I'd trust a scientific research paper over this guy any day.

Another thing that is remarkable is that you chose to quote a guy who wrote that thing about growing for 40 years, you didn't choose to quote me for example, or the study I posted, or any of the other scientific evidence I posted about nutrient storage, usage, and transportation.
Why didn't you at least link this thread to him so he can check out the facts for himself?

I know he's well known in the growing community, but that doesn't make his word gospel, especially not when he can't provide proper factual information to backup his words.

We need scientific evidence, like the studies I posted.
Not a few words from an author known to take material written by others and use it himself as fact.

 

[VanishingToaster]

Ah yes because Jorge Cervantes is the world renowned expert in Cannabis.
He is not just a author who copies what other people have written.

Well explained by him btw;



That really puts the whole issue to rest huh?
I mean this guy probably doesn't even know how nutrients are stored in cannabis, nor how they are transported within the plant.
I don't see him using scientific studies to backup his theories.
I'd trust a scientific research paper over this guy any day.

Another thing that is remarkable is that you chose to quote a guy who wrote that thing about growing for 40 years, you didn't choose to quote me for example, or the study I posted, or any of the other scientific evidence I posted about nutrient storage, usage, and transportation.
Why didn't you at least link this thread to him so he can check out the facts for himself?

I know he's well known in the growing community, but that doesn't make his word gospel, especially not when he can't provide proper factual information to backup his words.

We need scientific evidence, like the studies I posted.
Not a few words from an author known to take material written by others and use it himself as fact.

agreed! for all we know you typed the whole thing, certainly no actual information in that post

 

[Rumple]

Well explained by him btw

If you have any more questions for Jorge you can email him yourself at [email protected]

I feel growing experience counts for something. Jorge does offer some good insight into growing cannabis. Was a judge for years at the Cup and has talked with thousands of growers all over the world. I know he can produce top quality bud. What is wrong with listening to what he has to say? No one knows everthing, but when do we give someone credit for real life results? He was cool enough to answer my question, don't drag him through the dirt. K0iijn, you have some valid points.
I am ok with anyone who does not agree with what Jorge said, but I see no villain here.

 

[Rumple]

for all we know you typed the whole thing

I have to admit, that hurt. I am on the fence about flushing and don't have a real passion for this debate one way or another. I felt it was just a friendly conversation between a bunch of guys who like growing weed. Some very good points from both sides. More science from the non-flushers and lots of first hand experience from the flushers. I edited out my email address and I did not spell his name correct in the original post to Jorge (George), other then that it is real.

 

[VanishingToaster]

I have to admit, that hurt. I am on the fence about flushing and don't have a real passion for this debate one way or another. I felt it was just a friendly conversation between a bunch of guys who like growing weed. Some very good points from both sides. More science from the non-flushers and lots of first hand experience from the flushers. I edited out my email address and I did not spell his name correct in the original post to Jorge (George), other then that it is real.

my apologies, wasn't trying to hurt you, just pointing out that it doesn't really count as any proof whatsoever one way or another, thats the problem with quoting sources only available to you. while i'm sure he grows some good shit, his opinion is only his opinion and without the credibility of having your own original information (seen a few people slag him off for copy n pasting and re-selling)i am sadly lacking the willpower to believe what the king of the re-hash has to say.