The economy is booming!

We've just had the worst retail sales year in the last decade.

Coke is cutting earnings projections as are nearly every company in America. Yet still the market hangs on thanks to fake stories about China and Trump's "dealing" power.

It's going to crash and crash REALLY fucking hard. I'm still sticking to my April to June area of when it's going to hit.

TacoMac said:

We've just had the worst retail sales year in the last decade.

Coke is cutting earnings projections as are nearly every company in America. Yet still the market hangs on thanks to fake stories about China and Trump's "dealing" power.

It's going to crash and crash REALLY fucking hard. I'm still sticking to my April to June area of when it's going to hit.

Click to expand...

good thing weed will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no weed...cause no money is coming soon.....

one of my "friends" was just telling me that the economy was better than people are saying... look at all the tariffs we're getting from the Chinese....so i asked him if he realized most of the "tariffs" are paid by the American companies importing the items the tariffs are placed on...while the Chinese, for the most part, have other markets they can and are using instead of buying our products...MAGA!....moron.....
can't we make every trump supporter watch a few educational film strips? show them statistics from our own government?....just read a fucking newspaper once a week....just once a week....goddamn it...

Roger A. Shrubber said:

one of my "friends" was just telling me that the economy was better than people are saying... look at all the tariffs we're getting from the Chinese....so i asked him if he realized most of the "tariffs" are paid by the American companies importing the items the tariffs are placed on...while the Chinese, for the most part, have other markets they can and are using instead of buying our products...MAGA!....moron.....
can't we make every trump supporter watch a few educational film strips? show them statistics from our own government?....just read a fucking newspaper once a week....just once a week....goddamn it...

Click to expand...

"The economic stats:

• US household debt of $13.3 trillion now exceeds the 2008 peak. That’s due in part to mortgage lending, which is hovering near its decade-ago level of $9 trillion-plus.
• Student loans outstanding have skyrocketed from $611 billion in 2008 to around $1.5 trillion today.
• Auto loans, at nearly $1.25 trillion, have exceeded the 2008 total, while credit card balances are just as high now as before the Great Recession.
• Meanwhile, global debt — a result of central bankers flooding economies with cheap money to lift them out of a funk — is now $247 trillion, up from $177 trillion in 2008. That is close to 2½ times the size of the global economy."

These are from a December piece on debt. This was before the retail sales report. And before the announcement that 7,000,000 people are delinquent 90 days or longer on their auto loans.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

one of my "friends" was just telling me that the economy was better than people are saying... look at all the tariffs we're getting from the Chinese....so i asked him if he realized most of the "tariffs" are paid by the American companies importing the items the tariffs are placed on...while the Chinese, for the most part, have other markets they can and are using instead of buying our products...MAGA!....moron.....
can't we make every trump supporter watch a few educational film strips? show them statistics from our own government?....just read a fucking newspaper once a week....just once a week....goddamn it...

Click to expand...

Trump supporters were uneducated in the first place and now they have ensconced themselves into cocoons of denial and outright lies. Now they aren't just uneducated, they are outright stupid.

@NaturalFarmer and his side kick @Blaze who is always looking to post fake propaganda

I said a month ago that this was going to happen.

Fogdog said:

This is the first quarter in three years where the growth in profits has declined. The second quarter is expected to be worse. Trump benefited from Obama's strong economy but his recessionary and inflationary policies have started to bite. Recession by the end of the year or 2020 is what big money are betting on. They sold off bigly in December. Another selloff is due in February.

Click to expand...

Your reply (along with Blaze's incessant propaganda posts denying the facts):

NaturalFarmer said:

Why would anyone listen to you? Seriously? Where are you getting Q1 profits? Whose profits declined? Everyones?

Click to expand...

Why should anyone listen to me? Don't believe me. I'm OK with that. If fact it is really dumb to take stock advice from over the internet, especially RIU. But read this and weep.

Stocks sink after economic data disappoints
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-news-stocks-sink-after-economic-data-disappoints-2019-3-1028002530

Wall Street reversed gains Monday, ending lower after disappointing economic data and as a trade-fueled rally ran out of steam.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell about 200 points, or 0.78%. The S&P 500 shed 0.38%, and the Nasdaq Composite lost 0.23%. Healthcare, financial, and retail companies were among the biggest decliners.

While 2018 was a record year for construction in the US, according to a report out early Monday, activity unexpectedly slowed in December. The Commerce Department said construction spending fell 0.6% that month, compared to economist expectations for a 0.2% increase.

The surprise fall in both private and public building activity underscored expectations for the economy to slow in 2019 as stimulus fades and tariffs disrupt trade.


Projection missed the sell off by four days.


Toad you so.

You were reading quarterly reports and I was reading projected results from a well established and reliable financial media company. (not business insider, I'm referring to FT.com) The note about construction spending is important because businesses expecting growth, increase spending on construction. Instead, spending fell. Tea leaves? Maybe. Impending crash? Maybe, probably not. Big selloff, maybe recession by end of the year or early next year, likely.

The next quarter is projected to be worse with another selloff by the end of the reporting period. Still, as you say, "Why would anyone listen to you (me)?"

Fogdog said:

recession by end of the year or early next year, likely.

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we should have a pool...how will trump blame Obama? after riding Obama's coat tails and claiming credit for Obama's economy, the trump economy is about to actually hit the fan...and trump WILL blame Obama for it....we all throw in 5 bucks, and make a guess as to trumps major claim against Obama, winner takes half the pool, and the rest can go to the anti trump defense fund....

Roger A. Shrubber said:

we should have a pool...how will trump blame Obama? after riding Obama's coat tails and claiming credit for Obama's economy, the trump economy is about to actually hit the fan...and trump WILL blame Obama for it....we all throw in 5 bucks, and make a guess as to trumps major claim against Obama, winner takes half the pool, and the rest can go to the anti trump defense fund....

Click to expand...

He'll blame the Democrats and the "witch hunt". I don't think he'll mention Obama at all. He's past that now.

Store Closings for 2019, these are big names, shuttering many many stores and millions loosing thier jobs,,,
i have a very bad feeling about whats to come,, pain and suffering like this generation has never seen,, https://moneywise.com/a/retailers-closing-stores-in-2019

Yep. Dat booming Trump economy.

What's more, Boeing is going to lose big bucks, Tesla is going down in flames...

I predicted last year we'd have a crash by April tax deadline this year. Looks like I'm going to be right.

TacoMac said:

Yep. Dat booming Trump economy.

What's more, Boeing is going to lose big bucks, Tesla is going down in flames...

I predicted last year we'd have a crash by April tax deadline this year. Looks like I'm going to be right.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing end of this year or early next year but wouldn't bet against your prediction either. For some reason, financial sites keep citing optimism over a trade deal w/ China is keeping prices up.

Regardless, by the 2020 election things will be in shambles and totally agree with you that Republicans, not just Trump will blame Democrats for obstructing their "work" and causing the crash.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-parliament-tesla/tesla-shanghai-assembly-plant-to-be-completed-in-may-government-official-idUSKCN1QN0XY
China seems to have more faith in Tesla than you all do...i'm on the fence myself, i think musk has great ideas, but he's such a flake...he ends up taking on too much, he needs to focus on getting tesla up and running profitably, then think about other shit...if he can get China buying them, and installing charging stations nationally, then he's in, the rest of the world will jump on board in a big way, especially when they see the smog reduction in China's bigger cities...

Roger A. Shrubber said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-parliament-tesla/tesla-shanghai-assembly-plant-to-be-completed-in-may-government-official-idUSKCN1QN0XY
China seems to have more faith in Tesla than you all do...i'm on the fence myself, i think musk has great ideas, but he's such a flake...he ends up taking on too much, he needs to focus on getting tesla up and running profitably, then think about other shit...if he can get China buying them, and installing charging stations nationally, then he's in, the rest of the world will jump on board in a big way, especially when they see the smog reduction in China's bigger cities...

Click to expand...

That article is completely full of shit.

First off, they haven't even started construction yet. They've graded the ground and cleared it and that's it. Do you REALLY think it's possible to build a 3.2 billion dollar factory in less than two months?

Answer: not a chance in hell.

They're saying that to try to bolster his stock because it's fucking tanking huge.

Let's review the recent Tesla news:

• Tesla failed to meet its 359 dollar stock price just this past Friday. That means they had to pay off in cash a bond they had rather than convert it to stock. That cost them just short of 1 BILLION dollars. IN CASH. (That was 35% of all of Tesla's cash reserves.)
  
• Tesla failed to meet any production quotas. This resulted in thousands of people cancelling their reservations. Demand for the model 3, the car that was supposed to make Tesla profitable, drop like a stone.
• Elon Musk tried to bolster his stock via Twitter once again by saying he had a "special announcement". This was done the Wednesday before the stock price had to be 359 dollars or else. He (Musk) is once again under investigation by the FCC for violating his deal with them over the last stock manipulating he did via Twitter where he was fired as Chairman.
• Elon's "big announcement" was, finally, the $35,000 model 3 he had promised since the beginning that he never delivered on. The new "low cost" model has roughly 1/2 the performance of the more pricey model.
  
• The only way they could provide the car at that cost was to CLOSE DOWN NEARLY EVERY SINGLE DEALERSHIP THEY HAVE! All sales will now be online only, and they might not be able to do that depending on what the big three automakers decide to do.
• Tesla fired 90% of it's delivery staff two months ago. How do you do that if you have demand for your car? Answer: you don't. The only reason you do that is there is no demand.
• At the same time Elon was talking about the 35,000 dollar car he had promised for years, he also introduced a new model that will be available some time in the next month or two. That of course will cut into sales of the model 3, which everybody (according to him) had been waiting for.
• Gigafactory 2 is going under. Their entire line of solar roofing tiles never happened. The place is presently run on a skeleton crew of about 120 people. They're supposed to have no less than 5,000 people working there or it's going to start costing Tesla 50 million dollars per month in fines.
• Elon Musk just announced they will not be profitable in the first quarter again this year.
• The number two stock holder in Tesla second only to Elon Musk sold ALL of his stock in the company very quietly the last quarter of last year.
• The top 3 hedge funds in the U.S. have all dumped all of their holdings in Tesla over the last three weeks.

Absolutely NOTHING in the world of Tesla has gone to plan. Nothing. The stock has been admittedly over valued for the last 4 years based on Elon Musk alone. That is all over now. It's clear that the company is in big, big trouble.

At present, he doesn't have the money to build Gigafactory 3 at all. He'll have to take out so many loans to get it done that his entire value will be underwater.

It would take him about 12 years of sales in China to break even on the cost of the factory.

It's just not looking good at all for Tesla over the coming year.

TacoMac said:

That article is completely full of shit.

First off, they haven't even started construction yet. They've graded the ground and cleared it and that's it. Do you REALLY think it's possible to build a 3.2 billion dollar factory in less than two months?

Answer: not a chance in hell.

They're saying that to try to bolster his stock because it's fucking tanking huge.

Let's review the recent Tesla news:

• Tesla failed to meet its 359 dollar stock price just this past Friday. That means they had to pay off in cash a bond they had rather than convert it to stock. That cost them just short of 1 BILLION dollars. IN CASH. (That was 35% of all of Tesla's cash reserves.)
  
• Tesla failed to meet any production quotas. This resulted in thousands of people cancelling their reservations. Demand for the model 3, the car that was supposed to make Tesla profitable, drop like a stone.
• Elon Musk tried to bolster his stock via Twitter once again by saying he had a "special announcement". This was done the Wednesday before the stock price had to be 359 dollars or else. He (Musk) is once again under investigation by the FCC for violating his deal with them over the last stock manipulating he did via Twitter where he was fired as Chairman.
• Elon's "big announcement" was, finally, the $35,000 model 3 he had promised since the beginning that he never delivered on. The new "low cost" model has roughly 1/2 the performance of the more pricey model.
  
• The only way they could provide the car at that cost was to CLOSE DOWN NEARLY EVERY SINGLE DEALERSHIP THEY HAVE! All sales will now be online only, and they might not be able to do that depending on what the big three automakers decide to do.
• Tesla fired 90% of it's delivery staff two months ago. How do you do that if you have demand for your car? Answer: you don't. The only reason you do that is there is no demand.
• At the same time Elon was talking about the 35,000 dollar car he had promised for years, he also introduced a new model that will be available some time in the next month or two. That of course will cut into sales of the model 3, which everybody (according to him) had been waiting for.
• Gigafactory 2 is going under. Their entire line of solar roofing tiles never happened. The place is presently run on a skeleton crew of about 120 people. They're supposed to have no less than 5,000 people working there or it's going to start costing Tesla 50 million dollars per month in fines.
• Elon Musk just announced they will not be profitable in the first quarter again this year.
• The number two stock holder in Tesla second only to Elon Musk sold ALL of his stock in the company very quietly the last quarter of last year.
• The top 3 hedge funds in the U.S. have all dumped all of their holdings in Tesla over the last three weeks.

Absolutely NOTHING in the world of Tesla has gone to plan. Nothing. The stock has been admittedly over valued for the last 4 years based on Elon Musk alone. That is all over now. It's clear that the company is in big, big trouble.

At present, he doesn't have the money to build Gigafactory 3 at all. He'll have to take out so many loans to get it done that his entire value will be underwater.

It would take him about 12 years of sales in China to break even on the cost of the factory.

It's just not looking good at all for Tesla over the coming year.

Click to expand...

you're probably right, but he sure keeps trying...and just who else is even trying? fucking no one. maybe he is doomed to fail, but you have to fucking try, before you can fail....no one else is even trying...so i'll keep supporting him, till he has to quit....because he keeps trying....keeps trying to change the world, keeps trying to make it a better place...i'll support a dreamer, if he's dreaming the right dreams...

one farmer in a village see's that they need to do something to stop their cattle from getting into the fields and eating the crops. they have an abundance of stones, so he starts stacking the smaller ones up around the outside of the field...it's slow going, and a lot of the other villagers laugh at him, and walk away. but one other villager sees what he is doing, and helps. then they can work a little faster, and use bigger stones....and another villager catches on, and helps too, and another, till the whole village gets it and builds a wall around the field, which stops their livestock from getting into the crops. the first guy that thought of it could have never done it by himself...he needed that one other guy to get it...or all of the other farmers would have just kept laughing, while repairing the damage the cattle did....

Roger A. Shrubber said:

but he sure keeps trying...and just who else is even trying? fucking no one.

Click to expand...

Wrong.

Everybody is trying. The problem is that the big automakers have to play by the rules. Tesla doesn't. It is actually illegal for the automakers to sell electric cars until they pass an entire litany of tests, protocols, litigation and more. Tesla never had to do that.

It is illegal for the big automakers to sell cars online. They're about to draw the line by filing suit against the federal government if they allow Tesla to do it.

Elon Musk has bribed all the right people for a very long time and played by his own, private, easy set of rules. Everybody else is so heavily regulated it's taking them forever to get things to market.

But General Motors and Honda are about to make Tesla completely irrelevant. Have you seen the new Cadillac?





From GM (highlights by me):

DETROIT — Cadillac furthered its recent product blitz today with the reveal of the brand’s first EV. This will be the first model derived from GM’s future EV platform. GM announced on Friday that Cadillac will be at the vanguard of the company’s move toward an all-electric future.

“Cadillac’s EV will hit the heart of the crossover market and meet the needs of customers around the world,” said Steve Carlisle, president of Cadillac. “It will represent the height of luxury and innovation while positioning Cadillac as the pinnacle of mobility.”

The Cadillac EV’s name and additional details will be revealed closer to launch. Today’s announcement is part of Cadillac’s aggressive product acceleration announced this week — in addition to revealing the all-new XT6 crossover, the company also hinted at both a future Escalade and an upcoming performance sedan. Overall, Cadillac will introduce new models at the rate of roughly one every six months through 2021.

Tesla's days are numbered. Big time.

Cadillac, for the common man, thanks GM.
Meanwhile American pie is being served by commerce to the rising middle-class.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/08/07/autos/gm-china-electric-car/index.html

then they need to advertise the facts more...because tesla is the name you hear....didn't even know cadillac was working on an electric vehicle...and i don't recall there being any "review" process for automakers to make electric vehicles...they don't have to do anything except pass safety standards, there is no government process for approving new models automakers plan...whether they're electric or not...

Grandpapy said:

Cadillac, for the common man, thanks GM.
Meanwhile American pie is being served by commerce to the rising middle-class.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/08/07/autos/gm-china-electric-car/index.html

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there ya go...China gets one for 5k....we get fuck all....why can't they sell the same vehicle here for 5k? i'd buy one tomorrow...because American auto makers don't give a fuck about America, they give a fuck about money. once they've fulfilled their contract with the chinese government, the price will pop up to the 14k they say its worth without any incentives....in America the same vehicle will cost at least 28k.....just because.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

then they need to advertise the facts more...because tesla is the name you hear....

Click to expand...

They do. It's actually Tesla that doesn't. But what you have are a bunch of fangirls, especially on this forum, that run around singing Tesla praises even in the face of certain doom.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

and i don't recall there being any "review" process for automakers to make electric vehicles...

Click to expand...

It's not just electric. It's EVERY vehicle. You could spend the next two years reading about it all right here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations

Now, TECHNICALLY, Tesla is not an automotive manufacturer. They're an "energy and automotive" conglomerate. Part of the way they sold Tesla electric cars was as a network, not an automobile. That's why they built that entire network of power stations all over the damn place.

That's also how most of the parts of their cars went through without ever having to pass scrutiny...which is of course why they've had to disable the auto pilot and had so many recalls about their battery packs bursting into flames.

The registered big automakers would never (and presently aren't) get away with that.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

there is no government process for approving new models automakers plan...whether they're electric or not...

Click to expand...

Yes, there is. There didn't used to be until the SUV was created. When it hit the streets without a classification because that type vehicle had never existed, they started having all kinds of problems with them flipping over.

Because, of course, it was a fucking horrific, top heavy, piss poor design. They amended the laws accordingly to prevent that from happening again.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

there ya go...China gets one for 5k....we get fuck all....why can't they sell the same vehicle here for 5k?

Click to expand...

Because:

1. It wouldn't pass scrutiny and would be illegal.
2. Nobody would buy it because it's a shoe box that will get you killed.

There's a reason the Smart car never took off. It was a death trap.