What is your opinion on the 680 from growers choice? I'm just a hobby grower and just got that 680 replace my 1000w Hps.
The death of the Grower's Choice ROI-E720...
- Thread starter NeverOutgunned
- Start date
Kushash
Well-Known Member
What hailed from Australia?
I wanted to ask you a grow question. This dead yet entertaining thread is as good as any to ask.
We were chatting in a thread a while back with someone about the benefits of 18/6 lighting vs 24 hour during veg and there are always growers disagreeing and saying 24 hour is better.
I was wondering if it is a soil vs hydro situation.
With soil 18/6 is important because of the relationship the roots have with the living soil and I'm guessing the microbes do not like working 24/7.
With hydro commercial grows using 24 hours in veg to quickly get the plant into the flower room works well for them.
So I'm guessing 24 hour can be fine for hydro but 24 hour is not a good choice for soil.
Curious if you agree with this.
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Well, you can see this from many angles:
HID runners use 24/0 to evade bulb degradation, the plants also grow faster in leaf mass & stem than under 18/6. So if fed mineralically, when you just don't need MOs, the harnessing of them becomes irrelevant.
But night time is also repair time, so if you feel like your plant is in stress, or you need to apply a spray of insecticides or leaf feeds you may want to pick a night regiment, and do that on lights out. For plants its more natural and normal to have an off-phase and even scientists lay down visible proofs of petiole angles from leaf movement "as light goes by" - even with a memory effect. They sink during the night and raise even *before* sunrise *in expectation* of light - and there are metabolic things happening during the night which are running only at minimum during the day. So if the wattage for lighting is reduced accordingly to the 6 hours gained and the plant is healthy you'll see vigorous vegetative growth.
Then, photosynthesis rate measurements reveal PS is strongest during the first half of the day, the runs lower. This is because some of the storage sites are now fully loaded and the plant cannot utilize or use the incoming light anymore fully... So this is why some report that Autos in a tent together with photoperiods still grew out normally - to used weight.
One of the basic problems with dimmed light it cannot reach further down - the are some differences in whta happens with, and in, the leaves when exposed to either medium or high ppfd levels. Some of the inner characteristics of a leaf are adapted to the light during the build and stay fix. Esp. for what subtypes of Chlorophyls to use to better capture the spectrum. But, a weak point.
Fiddling around with lighting times favours LED users, if one wants to adapt the plants to a flower strength in veg already you would want to dial down the number of hours to drive the board, to 12, then interupt for an hour during the scotophile period. Your footprint then reaches further down and, if in a closed environment, the ambient lightlevels are increased.
BTW I think it's the hydro system which is dictating the outcome of your experiment. The roots always have access to both water and minerals and never encounter drought. In soil you wanna use the veg phase to train the rootball. There are alot of things going on right beside the roots and a constant flooding would torpedo some of the roots internal mineral mobilize and assimilate strategies - and I'm sure you have see this on a number of outdoor plants during periods of long rain.
HID runners use 24/0 to evade bulb degradation, the plants also grow faster in leaf mass & stem than under 18/6. So if fed mineralically, when you just don't need MOs, the harnessing of them becomes irrelevant.
But night time is also repair time, so if you feel like your plant is in stress, or you need to apply a spray of insecticides or leaf feeds you may want to pick a night regiment, and do that on lights out. For plants its more natural and normal to have an off-phase and even scientists lay down visible proofs of petiole angles from leaf movement "as light goes by" - even with a memory effect. They sink during the night and raise even *before* sunrise *in expectation* of light - and there are metabolic things happening during the night which are running only at minimum during the day. So if the wattage for lighting is reduced accordingly to the 6 hours gained and the plant is healthy you'll see vigorous vegetative growth.
Then, photosynthesis rate measurements reveal PS is strongest during the first half of the day, the runs lower. This is because some of the storage sites are now fully loaded and the plant cannot utilize or use the incoming light anymore fully... So this is why some report that Autos in a tent together with photoperiods still grew out normally - to used weight.
One of the basic problems with dimmed light it cannot reach further down - the are some differences in whta happens with, and in, the leaves when exposed to either medium or high ppfd levels. Some of the inner characteristics of a leaf are adapted to the light during the build and stay fix. Esp. for what subtypes of Chlorophyls to use to better capture the spectrum. But, a weak point.
Fiddling around with lighting times favours LED users, if one wants to adapt the plants to a flower strength in veg already you would want to dial down the number of hours to drive the board, to 12, then interupt for an hour during the scotophile period. Your footprint then reaches further down and, if in a closed environment, the ambient lightlevels are increased.
BTW I think it's the hydro system which is dictating the outcome of your experiment. The roots always have access to both water and minerals and never encounter drought. In soil you wanna use the veg phase to train the rootball. There are alot of things going on right beside the roots and a constant flooding would torpedo some of the roots internal mineral mobilize and assimilate strategies - and I'm sure you have see this on a number of outdoor plants during periods of long rain.
PhenoFarms
Member
So in your opinion, who is making the BEST LED fixtures right now? (Not for tents) Also, have you played around with including UV bars at all? I grow for hash mainly. Consider myself a trichome and terpene farmer more then anything. However flower weight is also important. Testing mammoth’s UV bars as well as gavitas. But also am trying out different LED fixtures. Luxx, Scynce grow, fluence, mammoth, & think grow. Wanted to try a couple more and am wanting the best of the best if possibletbh a 100 pages long-lasting thread is perhaps a bit too long and time-consuming for most (I suspect), although it's still of value alone from the documentation inside it.
Better would be to summarize the results of these discussions so newcomers can have a swift overview over the current state of affairs.
And not all of the wisdom was lost, as it's still contained in the minds of the folks which were part of these discussions, actually. Alone the development of these insights, or skill, both in theory and practice, from seasoned growers, can have an impact on the future emergence of new threads and discussions.
Because, you see, the evolution of LED or horticultural tech isn't at its end - it's still emerging and in constant flux. And while we may not have the adequate tools at our disposal, like the big world market leaders in their light laboratories, each and everyone of us can still contribute to this development with, what you've hitherto dubbed "field research".
Because these labs use a number of different plant species for testing, but we're quite cannabis-specific, and hemp is a versatile plant that can be grown in alot of different styles, and Bugbee experiences with it (for NASA) because of the multifold great potential this plant offers (from many points of view, not only drug-specific).
And an experienced grower can easily tell the different of a wellgrown cola or a goofed up architecture. So we don't even need 100% true SBS comparisons, although to think a bit in advance about ones setup, or having measuring instruments, is surely no error.
Alot of what the industry produces is in reaction to what customers buy - and for now, it's the diodes or boards with the highest umol raw numbers. But why, if LED blasts out twice PAR umol than HPS, isn't yield twiced accodringly as well. Where is the lm301b grower that delivers 3g/w routinely?
Samsung claims the lm301h-ONE diode has been delevoped after empirical horticultural tests & studies. However, this diode is very rarely used as its umol-output is less than the standard lm301b/h one. But what if reports would come trickleing in that this diode would net more yield in indoor hemp SBS grows? So what I'm saying is we need more tolerance & courage to dive into new territory in order to proof that certain claims by the industry also hold true for cannabis-specific grow ops. So don't let your hopes hang low - better to return with a vengeance!
There are many interesting specced boards out there... more and more the generic wimpy blue n red basic spec is being amended by "expensive" wavelengths...
View attachment 4701194
View attachment 4701195
View attachment 4701196
PS: and just wait and see what is going to hail from Australia soon...
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
do not focus on a manufacturer, but instead on the quality (diode brand) of the parts used, and the diode-count.
Have you actually seen a spectral power distr. charts from these Mammoth lights? I searched, but couldn't find. These UV dual diodes look strange, can't find any datasheet but similar looking ones on Alixpress get a lot of neg. feedback from customers... (as in no UVB)
firemarshall22
Well-Known Member
Yes, what @Kassiopeija said
Don't buy lights that aren't 100% transparent with their components and led count. IE Don't buy mammoth
firemarshall22
Well-Known Member
SMH
PhenoFarms
Member
Everything you couldn’t find was not only on their site, but posted in multiple places. You sure you were in the right place?
Don’t know why dual diodes look strange when there’s 2 UV spectrums beneficial to cannabis. UVA 400nm and UVB 310 NM. Gavita just came out with a similar UV bar but only using UVB. Fluence ALSO has one and it’s similar to the mammoth one There are mixed theories about wether or not UVA is needed for cannabis. I’m testing side by side comparisons of all 3 of these bars. Lab tests and extraction tests. Also comparing without UV being supplemented of course. Don’t know what the Alibaba knockoffs have to do with anything. Pretty sure you saw the UV dj lighting for black light parties. I google searched it and saw it too.
Don’t get me wrong Im not saying im
A fan of mammoth. Also not hating on them. I’m also running a 6 LED fixture SIDE BY SIDE test and mammoth is one of the ones in the mix. Mainly because after talking to multiple people
That have been using them. I decided they were worth habjng in the test.
hwres the info from their site. A lot more info on there too. But think this is what you were saying you couldn’t find. Lemme know what you think about the parts and everything
Attachments
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
thank you, what I'm missing here is info about the UV diodes. UVB is very corrosive and the reason these diodes use usually heavy metals.
BTW nice plan to do some SBS regarding UV. Please tag me once you open up a report.
PhenoFarms
Member
Here’s all I’ve seen about Mammoth’s UV bar. Difference between theirs and gavita is it has double the watts and #’of diodes. Because they include the UVA diodes. Also don’t know if I knew this before I posted on here.. spoke to Luxx and they are ALSO developing a UV bar for added spectrum. Thought that was pretty interesting. Million dollar question is are they chasing a trend they see coming down the road where UV becomes more commonplace in a flower room or are they chasing a snake oil trend as a money grab? Will day this about Luxx, they care about performance big time. Don’t really see them developing a UV bar if there wasn’t any positive results. But that is just speculation and deductive reasoning lol!
Below is the info available for mammoth’s UV bars. They are independently dimmable and mammoth stresses multiple times to only use them last 3-4 weeks of flower. I’ll definitely keep you posted on my SBS. Will be comparing companies as well as NO UV added
1 Single UV bar. Stand alone option. UV bar + driver and plug. UVA (400nm) + UVB (310nm) Can be suspended using two attached hooks. Recommendation is to hang between existent bars or lights and plug in for the last 3-4 weeks of flowering.
Below is the info available for mammoth’s UV bars. They are independently dimmable and mammoth stresses multiple times to only use them last 3-4 weeks of flower. I’ll definitely keep you posted on my SBS. Will be comparing companies as well as NO UV added
1 Single UV bar. Stand alone option. UV bar + driver and plug. UVA (400nm) + UVB (310nm) Can be suspended using two attached hooks. Recommendation is to hang between existent bars or lights and plug in for the last 3-4 weeks of flowering.
- Product: UV LED grow light 1 strips, standard without dimming
Power: 50W±5%
Spectrum:400nm and 310nm
LEDs: 136 pcs led per bar
Beam angle :120 degree
LED lifespan: 50000 Hours
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
The addition of 310 nm is very nice but i womder at what power levels? Any link?
kovidkough
Well-Known Member
#freebk78
firemarshall22
Well-Known Member
Mammoth is all lies. Their PPF, PPFD and Efficacy are all lies. They are full of shit, just rebranding the cheapest lights they could find. They don't even both to actually oem anything. If they were real they would have DLC testing done. They don't. Because they aren't a real light company.
firemarshall22
Well-Known Member
How do I like my own comment? LOL
UncleRawkus
Well-Known Member
So growers choice roi-e720 isn't any good?
Triple oh gee
Well-Known Member
grown under 720s, don't listen to the headline of this topic lol got 2 of them 720s for flower always pull 26-29 zips per light, and they will do over 2lb trust me per light I seen it in partners grow of coarse its strain dependant as always, I even rock 2 of there e200 gc's they Hella Good for vegAttachments
CaliRootz88
Well-Known Member
Wow! Your grow made my p.... grow. Straight grow porn right there! Are those 5 gallon buckets? What size tent is this? Do these buckets drain out the bottom? I have questions! FIRE GROW !
StonedGimp
Active Member
Beautiful job! Would you mind sharing your grow setup here please? I’m very interested in what you have going on with the 5 gallon bucket and shorter plants. Thanks and have a great day