The Art of The Auto

mossys said:

Big bit odd.
Obviously AF's haven't been around for generations..so we cannot say we know everything
that they Might do..
But..
a reversion seems so genetically Implausible..

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I agree we cant know everything about them yet, there still fairly "green" in the growers world. But i have to agree i cant see them going backwards in progression. The only way that i could see this is careless breeding and not knowing what to watch for, and maybe the lack of a back cross or maybe too many..... Guess well find out on this project of mine. As i will be bringing a long season girl to auto flower this may open up some new light.

that fault couldn't have been missed in a pre-sale test grow..
it is so big...
the test growers would have to be blind as well.

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IF they were even tested. I have been a member of two sites as well as read a few others and didnt see or hear of any test runners on these. Only thing i heard was that they were not autoing. I know you have been on the forums for a long time do you recall seeing these tested before they got released.

I have a thought..
I think the ones I have seen have been feminised lines...
something going wrong is the selfing..?

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This could be too. You know as well as i do that hermi's can be the result of self seeding if not done correctly and with care. I have never used the CS method to make fem seeds only left them go as a survival method and then get a few pollen sacs forming. Maybe its the combo of both the genetics and a SC type method causing the high rate of non autos. Maybe its having a reaction with the process and throws the auto gene out the window instead of making hermi's.
Just a thought, and we may be able to see this live if upto uses this method to make fems

But..I assume that is why you have been smiling a lot lately....

Click to expand...

And you would be right

Scrooge said:

Great Thread! I just came into some Joint Doctor LR#2 beans so I am trying to absorb all of the AF information I can.

FullDuplex, perhaps you could summarize the key points to a successful AF grow. I plan to re-read this thread in more detail this weekend but, after 33 pages, some of the minute details tend to get lost.

I read through this thread and here is what I've found, so far:

1. Use larger pots even with the smaller plants. I've some 3gal. pots (I think they are).

2. I haven't yet decided whether to start them in one of those domed, Jiffy All in One Seed Starter Mini Greenhouses and then move the seedling/peat pellet combo or the wet paper towel germination and then place them in the final pot. Have you found if one method works better then the other?

3. 18/6 light schedule through the whole grow. I read through the entire thread several days ago and I apologize if you already covered this but - do you have any advice as to the particular light spectrum? I read in another thread: "6500k for vegging and when you start seeing buds/white hairs switch to the 2700k". Would you concur?

4. Get some decent soil. I'll be going down to the hydro store tomorrow. Previously you said, "Always remember when mixing soil if you think that there is enough perlite in the soil add two cups more, these plants love light soil." I’ve seen some other soil recipes online here. Would you recommend some of these or go with the popular brands like Foxfarm or Roots Organic. If going store-bought, would you recommend adding more Perlite?

5. Is a fan as important (for stalk strength) as in taller plants with the shorter AF strains?

Again, thank you for this thread and sharing your knowledge. I love this place!!!

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1. That is correct, the bigger the pot the better she is going to do. Think of it as an ice burg only a small percentage is above the soil, the roots are explosive underneath. If you keep an autos roots happy she WILL reward you. If you want to get decent yields out of small pots let me know, ive got some good tips.

2. I have tried all of the methods that you have mentioned above and i have a few tips on that. I find it best to germ into the final pot. If you have a 3 gal start the seed in that container. I have done a few in a paper towel but no longer do this as i have had a few seeds crack but not do anything. Everything that i have started into soil has grown out no failures. now if you want a little more control of moisture the second best way that i still use is to the jiffy pellet. The mini green houses are nice, i use a swiffer wet container to start mine. I Get the pellet to the correct moisture then add the seeds then stick them in the little container with the lid on tight and set them up on the top of my cab, 3 days later there above soil.

3.Yes i would agree on this. 18/6 has had fantastic results for me. I am going 20/4 this winter because of the colder nights, this will allow the room to stay warmer longer through the cold spell. The spectrum thing i am BIG on. I have grown out quite a few of these guys and have seen the differences of running a MH (6500k) till signs of sex and then HPS(3500k) till finish and then running the hps all the way through from seed to harvest. When running the mixed combo my JEM had great branching as well as spacing, when i ran the HPS all the way i had nice uniformed non branching buds. Just something to think about.

4.If you are gonna run soil, check out subcool's super soil it works great. THis is where i got the base recipe that i make for my grows. YOu can check it out here. If you are going to buy then i would suggest roots or the FF and also would agree to add the perlite. Keeps things loose and lets the roots grow with out a hitch. The oxygen exchange in the roots is so important to keeping them alive and producing.

5. always always always Depending on what strain you run they can get top heavy. They need a fan to make them strong. This happens fast with them how ever if you have fans in there. After the 2 week mark they start to thicken nice.

Hope some of this helped and if you have any more questions just ask

G/L with the grow!

Hey guys glad I found this thread finaly and Mossy good to see you are well and posting again

will post some pics tommoz ppl got to hit the sack got a job interview tommoz

shroomyshroom said:

Hey guys glad I found this thread finaly and Mossy good to see you are well and posting again

will post some pics tommoz ppl got to hit the sack got a job interview tommoz

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Welcome shroomyshroom, glad you find the new home.

cant wait to see these pics.

Weeelll..throw another shimp on the Barbie FullD...
Our Aussie Bro has arrived....

Lighting you a Fat one shroomy..to Celebrate.....

Sleep Well..Good Luck for the interview Bro...

You made my Day.

na did a shite haha milan and arsenal on wednesday and sampdoria last night just might tomorow soccer saturday

Click to expand...

Ha budolskie..I have that kind Luck with the bookie....
Are you seeing any Girls yet...?

FullD...

As i will be bringing a long season girl to auto flower this may open up some new light.

Click to expand...

I am Really pleased that I have done a few Full..AF/long season rolls..
I think it is quite Awesome to watch what Mighty genetics we can fit into our little AF Bundles...

Do you already have the Parents in mind..?

Maybe its having a reaction with the process and throws the auto gene out the window instead of making hermi's.

Click to expand...

This is the road I was thinking down myself.

Just a thought, and we may be able to see this live if upto uses this method to make fems

Click to expand...

Never waste an experiment eh!....

AND..the other avenue...
you know how we talk about the semi-auto..
weeelll...
during My AF rolls..
I have picked up a Non-AF Male..that Will flower on 18/6..
and 20/4

I cocked up a mass germination with one way back @ f3..

so I'm wondering if that has happened on the mass germ..
But..still again we hit back to the Test run.

I know you have been on the forums for a long time do you recall seeing these tested before they got released.

Click to expand...

No m8..never seen them tested
But..
I haven't seen Others tested out either...
I stayed exclusive at the one site.

And you would be right

Click to expand...

Just a thought Bro..
keep a note on Both your reactions to specific bud..
I certainly get differing effects on some in this house...
and
I'm trying to figure if it is a med user v's stoner difference..
OR a male v's female thing.

Tell Lady D I'll appreciate her results...

Endorium..now the leaves are getting sticky...bet you cannot wait to harvest.

Could you take a look at these leaves guys, I'm on day 40 with my White Dwarf. I gave her some MagiCal by technoflora a couple of times this past week because it appears to be a N deficiency and they look a touch better since doing that. But I'm not sure if what I'm doing is correct or not. Afterall this could be the normal part of the plants life cycle, this is basically my first plant. Help?

P.S. I am using FFOF soil.

View attachment 1254790View attachment 1254791View attachment 1254792View attachment 1254793View attachment 1254794View attachment 1254795View attachment 1254796

Just for contribution to this thread, below are a couple photos of my two Purple Jem grows. First photo is my DWC Purple Jem at 43 days, 19" talkk. Second photo is my hempy bucket PJ at 49 days, 13" tall. The lighting in both photos make the plants look more yellow than they are. Trust me they are very green and healthy! The hempy plant is showing some good purple in the buds while the DWC is staying green. Using all Bontanicare nutes and a 150w HPS under 20/4. The plants are not fattening up as well as I would like, but since this is my second grow, I am not going to complain too much.

P.S., my two PJs are actually farther along than this. These are the only pics I have of them. The hempy bucket is current at day 55 and the DWC is day 49. Question I have since this my first harvest: what should I be looking for on the trichomes to tell me they are ready. I have read many threads on this and some say more amber than not, and some say more cloudy than amber. Also, are the pistils a good indicator as well? Should I be seeing them dying off/turning brown as an indicator? I know a lot of this is personal preference, but just taking advice since I am getting close to harvest time.

For the hell of it, current pictures from today (day 55). Let me know what you think. I am still hoping that the buds fatten up a bit more, but I'll take what I can get!

FullDuplex said:

1. That is correct, the bigger the pot the better she is going to do. Think of it as an ice burg only a small percentage is above the soil, the roots are explosive underneath. If you keep an autos roots happy she WILL reward you. If you want to get decent yields out of small pots let me know, ive got some good tips.

Click to expand...

FullDuplex said:

2. I have tried all of the methods that you have mentioned above and i have a few tips on that. I find it best to germ into the final pot. If you have a 3 gal start the seed in that container. I have done a few in a paper towel but no longer do this as i have had a few seeds crack but not do anything. Everything that i have started into soil has grown out no failures. now if you want a little more control of moisture the second best way that i still use is to the jiffy pellet. The mini green houses are nice, i use a swiffer wet container to start mine. I Get the pellet to the correct moisture then add the seeds then stick them in the little container with the lid on tight and set them up on the top of my cab, 3 days later there above soil.

3.Yes i would agree on this. 18/6 has had fantastic results for me. I am going 20/4 this winter because of the colder nights, this will allow the room to stay warmer longer through the cold spell. The spectrum thing i am BIG on. I have grown out quite a few of these guys and have seen the differences of running a MH (6500k) till signs of sex and then HPS(3500k) till finish and then running the hps all the way through from seed to harvest. When running the mixed combo my JEM had great branching as well as spacing, when i ran the HPS all the way i had nice uniformed non branching buds. Just something to think about.

4.If you are gonna run soil, check out subcool's super soil it works great. THis is where i got the base recipe that i make for my grows. YOu can check it out here. If you are going to buy then i would suggest roots or the FF and also would agree to add the perlite. Keeps things loose and lets the roots grow with out a hitch. The oxygen exchange in the roots is so important to keeping them alive and producing.

5. always always always Depending on what strain you run they can get top heavy. They need a fan to make them strong. This happens fast with them how ever if you have fans in there. After the 2 week mark they start to thicken nice.

Hope some of this helped and if you have any more questions just ask

G/L with the grow!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply FD

I’m taking it slow at first and not going crazy with all kinds of expensive equipment until I determine if I really like doing this or not. I’ve always been an outside vegetable gardener but this is always something I’ve wanted to try.

I am going to have to go with CFL’s for now. I’ve read Dr.Chronic’s CFL Tutorial but do you have any thoughts on the correct CFL light spectrum for AF strains? I am thinking of running 6500K until I start seeing calyx and then switch to 2700K until the end. I am still doing more research on the wattage but, from what I’ve read, the rule of thumb is 50W per sq/ft. That means I need 250w for my space (see below).

I am going to jump right in and go with a single, feminized LR#2 plant instead of starting with bagseed (like most every newbie thread suggests). I am going to be growing a pepper plant alongside to keep the wife happy (this is a semi-stealth grow as far as she’s concerned). I’m sure she’ll eventually see it (like she saw my last outdoor grow in the Spring), but she’s pretty cool about it.

Up to this point, everything was theoretical and I was gathering information from any and all sources. Over the past several days I’ve started to physically prepare. I went down to the hydro/organic garden store and purchased some FF Ocean Forest Soil (they didn’t have any Happy Frog), FF Tiger Bloom & Grow Big, a PH test kit and 4.5” EcoPlus axial fan (to MacGyver a carbon filter).

After examining my small grow space (28”W x 18-3/4”D x 25-3/4”H) with various containers inside, I am starting to rethink the 3gal. container set-up. As you can see from the picture below, it doesn’t leave much room for the height of the plant. The 3gal container is on the left, the one on the right is unmarked – it is either a 2 or 2-1/2 gal one. **What do you all think?

Nice PJ's lenny!!!

Bh.

Bighill said:

Nice PJ's lenny!!!

Bh.

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Thank you! Being that they are my first successful grow (previous turned out to be all males), I am pretty happy with them. Almost bummed out I will be chopping them since I put so much work into them. BUT, with what I have learned (and my next grow being in autopots) I expect the next grow wont be as much work, or seem to be as much.

I credit with a lot I learned from FullDuplex, who started this thread, from his PJ grow several months ago. Plus, credit to Mossy who bred this strain. This PJ may be the perfect grow for me since they have been quite low odor, which I need for stealth.

Yeah i have to agree for the most part it is low odor. When you get one of the skunky ones it'll catch you off guard. Mossy told me that if you add some sugar to a watering durring flower your buds will be alot more aromatic.

I haven't tried it yet sicne i didn't want to "sweeten" my outdoor patch. Lots of deer/catle around. Once i get some indoor stuff going again, i am eager to try it. I plan on adding it to my molassis waterings.

Most def cudos to mossy for his work on it, i have found some interesting smoke from the jem lines. The ones that have leaf mutations are interesting. When i get them they are always huge plants. Mossy calls them the cloven phenos. If you ever want to breed color into your autos.. Jems are the KEY!!! IMO it's a proven stable breeder.


Bh.

Scrooge said:

After examining my small grow space (28”W x 18-3/4”D x 25-3/4”H) with various containers inside, I am starting to rethink the 3gal. container set-up. As you can see from the picture below, it doesn’t leave much room for the height of the plant. The 3gal container is on the left, the one on the right is unmarked – it is either a 2 or 2-1/2 gal one. **What do you all think?

View attachment 1255067

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One of my PJs was grown in a 1 1/2 gallon pot and it kept the plant at a managable size (15"), so yes you may want to re-think the 3 gallon pot in that grow space. Plus, if you go with a smaller pot size, you might be able to squeeze 3 pots in there. Also, you can think about scrogging, etc.

First pic is a non auto I plan to flower once my auto has finished.Second and Third pic are of my auto that has just started to flower.
1. Any advice on what to do now my auto is starting to flower?
2.Anything I should be doing? Pruning or tieing down? (already LST'ed it)
3. Should I keep the light far away so it stretches to it or close? Its a flowering 250W CFL with reflector?

They seem healthy and plenty of leaves so hoping for a good yield. They smell great!!

mossys said:

Do you already have the Parents in mind..?

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You bet once these seeds complete and dry i will be cracking them in search of the
colored male. I have some pollen saved back now of the last colored male but
want one that has a little deeper color for the receiving female.

The mom will be my Cali Blue hash. This is one i have been waiting on for some time to drop. I have one seed and its femmed so i hope she goes female. If not ill harvest the pollen and hit a PJ with it looking for the color meld and then the potency from the hash plant.

This is the road I was thinking down myself.

Never waste an experiment eh!....

Click to expand...

Great minds think alike, and its always good to see a live experiment.

AND..the other avenue...

Click to expand...

This is interesting. I know that we have talked about semi auto before and that you have had a few, but i think this would have shown like you said. IF they saw these start to flower they may have thought that they were full on auto and hit them with IBL pollen. Keeping the semi trait dominant, however they still need that 12/12 kick to flower. This is quite an interesting mix

No m8..never seen them tested
But..
I haven't seen Others tested out either...
I stayed exclusive at the one site.

Click to expand...

Hmm wonder who the testers were and what they really saw then. This leaves in the gaps we need to fill or at least try to.

Just a thought Bro..
keep a note on Both your reactions to specific bud..
I certainly get differing effects on some in this house...
and
I'm trying to figure if it is a med user v's stoner difference..
OR a male v's female thing.

Tell Lady D I'll appreciate her results...

Endorium..now the leaves are getting sticky...bet you cannot wait to harvest.

Click to expand...

You bet and she is up for the challenge, told her that she now has homework to do. Id like to see if we could even break it down to male and female specific strains depending on needs. Now that would be a land mark.

Scrooge said:

Thanks for the reply FD

I’m taking it slow at first and not going crazy with all kinds of expensive equipment until I determine if I really like doing this or not. I’ve always been an outside vegetable gardener but this is always something I’ve wanted to try.

I am going to have to go with CFL’s for now. I’ve read Dr.Chronic’s CFL Tutorial but do you have any thoughts on the correct CFL light spectrum for AF strains? I am thinking of running 6500K until I start seeing calyx and then switch to 2700K until the end. I am still doing more research on the wattage but, from what I’ve read, the rule of thumb is 50W per sq/ft. That means I need 250w for my space (see below).

I am going to jump right in and go with a single, feminized LR#2 plant instead of starting with bagseed (like most every newbie thread suggests). I am going to be growing a pepper plant alongside to keep the wife happy (this is a semi-stealth grow as far as she’s concerned). I’m sure she’ll eventually see it (like she saw my last outdoor grow in the Spring), but she’s pretty cool about it.

Up to this point, everything was theoretical and I was gathering information from any and all sources. Over the past several days I’ve started to physically prepare. I went down to the hydro/organic garden store and purchased some FF Ocean Forest Soil (they didn’t have any Happy Frog), FF Tiger Bloom & Grow Big, a PH test kit and 4.5” EcoPlus axial fan (to MacGyver a carbon filter).

After examining my small grow space (28”W x 18-3/4”D x 25-3/4”H) with various containers inside, I am starting to rethink the 3gal. container set-up. As you can see from the picture below, it doesn’t leave much room for the height of the plant. The 3gal container is on the left, the one on the right is unmarked – it is either a 2 or 2-1/2 gal one. **What do you all think?

View attachment 1255067

Click to expand...

Sounds to me that you got a few things going good already. Goil soil and fert choices. They will not fail you and the autos seems to love them. This is what i used before i started making my own teas to suit there needs. Thats something that we can go into at a later time as i need to brew some so ill post the recipe.

The light spectrum stuff you listed is spot on. Its all about the color temp when it comes to veg and flower. Now light power will bring bigger, thicker, and an abundance of bud but CFL's will do just fine. I started on CFL's and they are good to use until you like what you are doing. If i know anything about gardeners (i do a veggie garden my self) your gonna be hooked. Im running a 250watt MH/HPS combo and it does great, it would do AMAZING things in the area that you have there. Plus i got it for 125.00 to my door things to think about. The only thing is that you WOULD have to cool that cab and with that 250 in there its gonna cost extra money to cool it via fan. So i have to agree with you, CFL for now then down the road id spend the $$ on the HPS its changed my world.

I have 2 42watt (100watt equivalent) in my pc starting case, this does great to start them out so you getting that BIG cfl in there should do just fine. One thing i would suggest is to add some flat white to those walls. This will reflect the light the best, better than mylar even. You can either paint it or get some white cardboard and line it, its needs to be FLAT white not glossy, as it absorbs light.

43Hitman said:

Could you take a look at these leaves guys, I'm on day 40 with my White Dwarf. I gave her some MagiCal by technoflora a couple of times this past week because it appears to be a N deficiency and they look a touch better since doing that. But I'm not sure if what I'm doing is correct or not. Afterall this could be the normal part of the plants life cycle, this is basically my first plant. Help?

P.S. I am using FFOF soil.

View attachment 1254790View attachment 1254791View attachment 1254792View attachment 1254793View attachment 1254794View attachment 1254795View attachment 1254796

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This is classic Magnesium deficiency, as you can see on the leaves the color is changing from outside tips to the middle. The leaf almost looks "highlighted." As it progresses the leaf will die and turn brown as you are seeing in the lower leafs. This happens as a result of a few different things. One its either a pH lock out or the soil has been depleted of this resource. If your pH is out of range then the plant cant get to the Magnesium that it needs in flower, if the soil is out of magnesium then you need to add it.

So what you need to do is first flush. Best thing you can do is get what is in there out, this will allow the pH to balance if its off as well as get all the salts out of your soil. On the first flush test the run off pH if its out of range than you need to get it where it needs to be. If the pH is normal you are going to have to add Magnesium to the soil. The best way to do this is add 1tsb of epsom salt to a gal of plain pH'ed water. Feed it this until you see the problem stop. Now be cautious not to over do it as this IS a salt and cause problems if you use to much. So about every other water till it stops.

Let me know how they are doing and hope all goes well and we get it stopped. Look at the chart below to find the pH range needed. If you have time post up the the numbers you are getting for pH as i am always curious.

g/l

hi all !! Great thread, Respect !!

I'm going to order some autos soon and only have outdoor to grow them so, just wondering how they would do outdoors under 14/10 light which is light time at moment were i am, but of course it will lower to about 9/15 in winter. so how much will the yield decrese per hour of light outdoors ??- say a diesel ryder yields 100g indoors on 20/4 light will it yield 50g outdoors on 12/12 light ?? and what soil do autos like - topsoil, compost, manure, blood and bone ??

Also has anyone grown super cali haze from short stuff ?? i might get some of that cause its suppose to yield 4 oz + outdoors !! now thats an auto !!

cheers