Jogro
Well-Known Member
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never used the term "elite strain" and that's not what I'm saying at all.
By definition, "elite" strains don't come in packs (or they wouldn't be "elite". . .duh), or if they do, they only occur with remote frequency.
I'm saying that if you have to plant many seeds just to get one good plant (not necessarily an "elite" one), that's potentially a problem.
I'm also saying that if you have to worry about phenotypes every time you buy a pack of seeds then those seeds may not be suitable for small scale growers.
You disagree?
See above.
This is getting off topic, but part of the reason people seek elite cuts is because there is a mystique about it, and obtaining and growing them is sort of a subversive "underground" activity.
Its amazing how you consistently see things in my posts that aren't there.
I never stated any "opinion" that TGA seeds don't match the ad copy. I said if that happens, its a problem. (I also said that there are excellent phenotypes to be had).
If you go back and read through the posts, there are a bunch of posters making claims from first hand experience about less than impressive potency, phenotype variation and hermaphroditism. I didn't claim it, though apparently some are doing so indirectly.
Again, if you've only got ten seeds in a pack, and some are males, and some go hermie, and the females that remain comprise the less than best phenotypes, there is a real chance that you're not going to realize the strain's potential (ie what you end up with won't live up to the hype).
On the other hand, there is some chance that all of them will be impressive. Its a gamble, and that's my point.
The only specific claim I made about TGA seeds at all, was that they are crossed polyhybrids and that they may have a tendency to throw off many different phenotypes. Neither one of these things is particularly controversial. If you just look at the genetic lineages of the strains, they're all hybrids of multiply hybridized parents, and if you look at TGA's website, Subcool himself describes some of the strains as throwing off a variety of phenotypes.
You've already said yourself that you may need to pick through a number of TGA plants to find a good one, so it seems to me you don't disagree with this premise, either.
In TGA's defense, the nature of these hybrids may be such that it simply isn't practical to stabilize the line to the point where you only get a small number of good phenotypes. So phenotype hunting may just be a price you have to pay to take advantage of these lines.
With due respect, nothing I posted is a "copy and paste". This isn't about me, and the fact that you are resorting to name-calling doesn't reflect well on your or your arguments.
As to my "experience" I started growing in '94.
Oh, and I'm not Bricktop, if that's what you're accusing me of.
Again, go back and read what I actually wrote, and not what you imagine I wrote.
Would you concede that its possible that you might not? That's really the issue/question.
More importantly, since you brought this up, how many packs have you grown to make that statement, and of how many strains?
What types of phenotypic variation have you seen, in what strains, and what level of hermaphroditism? This information would be a lot more useful than the generalization above.
Again, I didn't bring up the topic of elites, you did.
But since you did, unfortunately, I have to disagree a bit with you here. In some cases what you posted above is true, but it largely depends on which elite cut you're talking about.
This is now well off topic, but I'd say elites are elites because of two reasons:
a. There is something desirable about the strain/cut in question, enough to make someone want to perpetuate it (typically both potency and flavor), and
b. The strain isn't readily available commercially.
That's it.
Note that in many (if not most) cases the reason these strains aren't commercially available is because they're hybrids and simply can't be stabilized into seed producing form. These are typically the sorts of elites that most of the current crop of breeders are hybridizing into new strains.
In some cases, the elite strain actually WAS once a commercially available strain, just for whatever reason it isn't anymore (eg William's Wonder, Silver Pearl, Afghani-Skunk, etc).
In some cases, the elite strain is just a unique or outstanding individual phenotype of a commercially available strain (eg Cinderella 99 and the original Cheese probably fall into this category). Presumably this is what you're talking about in your statement above.
In some cases an elite strain that once was hard to get now *IS* commercially available, and may not really be "elite" anymore (Herijuana is one like that). Williams Wonder occasionally appears commercially too.
And in some cases the "elite" strain isn't necessarily really any better than stuff that is commercially available, just a combination of scarcity, lore, and the underground nature of cannabis cultivation gives these strains an added mystique.
