Testing Timber's prototype=4000k/660nm and my finger on the flower trigger:)

The Raw data, not that anyone will read this shit...................I just wanted the ppf/w

can't post the spectral data(nm), waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long


osram ssl80 660nm kits(3 measurements till warm up)..........their from ledtech.de, not top bin but close

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 660nm","N-00899","1291.7","26.124","13.55","0.7198","0.2802","0.5849","0.5123"," 1001","-1.38e-001","640.8","100.0","667.0"," 22.7"," 98.8"," 1.2"," 0.0"," 14.4","402.8","119.5","0.7980","95.33","0.9840","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 13:07:01","1 nm resolution",
"0002","Nextlight 660nm","N-00900","1279.2","26.065","13.43","0.7197","0.2803","0.5846","0.5123"," 1001","-1.37e-001","640.7","100.0","667.0"," 22.8"," 98.7"," 1.3"," 0.0"," 15.2","402.7","119.5","0.7970","95.23","0.9840","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 13:09:58","1 nm resolution",
"0003","Nextlight 660nm","N-00901","1257.0","25.899","13.26","0.7197","0.2803","0.5846","0.5123"," 1001","-1.37e-001","640.7","100.0","667

CXB 3590 3000k top bin(no reflector)

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 3000k COB","N-00898","27824","86.189","130.8","0.4339","0.3996","0.2505","0.5192"," 3015","-1.38e-003","583.3"," 50.2","607.0","133.4"," 24.8"," 73.0"," 2.2"," 83.6"," 91.0","119.5","1.780","212.7","0.9950","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 12:45:36","1 nm resolution",

CXB 3590 3000k top bin WITH reflectors

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 3000k COB with Reflectors","N-00897","25463","79.114","119.7","0.4409","0.4014","0.2543","0.5209"," 2912","-1.56e-003","583.8"," 52.8","608.0","129.0"," 25.5"," 72.4"," 2.1"," 83.6"," 96.7","119.0","1.789","212.8","0.9950","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 12:41:37","1 nm resolution",

CXB 3590 4000k top bin (no reflectors)

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 4000k COB ","N-00896","29084","89.800","135.7","0.3823","0.3789","0.2255","0.5028"," 3966","4.40e-004","579.0"," 28.4","448.0"," 21.4"," 20.0"," 77.0"," 3.0"," 83.4"," 51.0","118.1","1.815","214.4","0.9950","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 12:09:42","1 nm resolution",



that's it, back to growing

Thanks for getting this organized and done, P! It's about time we see some real numbers and not just some estimates / bold claims based on spreadsheets by these mathemagicians and non-growers that have plagued RIU in the recent past.

puffenuff said:

Thanks for getting this organized and done, P! It's about time we see some real numbers and not just some estimates / bold claims based on spreadsheets by these mathemagicians and non-growers that have plagued RIU in the recent past.

Click to expand...

Amen to that! Good job @PSUAGRO and everyone involved.

PSUAGRO. said:

The Raw data, not that anyone will read this shit...................I just wanted the ppf/w

can't post the spectral data(nm), waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long


osram ssl80 660nm kits(3 measurements till warm up)..........their from ledtech.de, not top bin but close

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 660nm","N-00899","1291.7","26.124","13.55","0.7198","0.2802","0.5849","0.5123"," 1001","-1.38e-001","640.8","100.0","667.0"," 22.7"," 98.8"," 1.2"," 0.0"," 14.4","402.8","119.5","0.7980","95.33","0.9840","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 13:07:01","1 nm resolution",
"0002","Nextlight 660nm","N-00900","1279.2","26.065","13.43","0.7197","0.2803","0.5846","0.5123"," 1001","-1.37e-001","640.7","100.0","667.0"," 22.8"," 98.7"," 1.3"," 0.0"," 15.2","402.7","119.5","0.7970","95.23","0.9840","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 13:09:58","1 nm resolution",
"0003","Nextlight 660nm","N-00901","1257.0","25.899","13.26","0.7197","0.2803","0.5846","0.5123"," 1001","-1.37e-001","640.7","100.0","667

CXB 3590 3000k top bin(no reflector)

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 3000k COB","N-00898","27824","86.189","130.8","0.4339","0.3996","0.2505","0.5192"," 3015","-1.38e-003","583.3"," 50.2","607.0","133.4"," 24.8"," 73.0"," 2.2"," 83.6"," 91.0","119.5","1.780","212.7","0.9950","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 12:45:36","1 nm resolution",

CXB 3590 3000k top bin WITH reflectors

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 3000k COB with Reflectors","N-00897","25463","79.114","119.7","0.4409","0.4014","0.2543","0.5209"," 2912","-1.56e-003","583.8"," 52.8","608.0","129.0"," 25.5"," 72.4"," 2.1"," 83.6"," 96.7","119.0","1.789","212.8","0.9950","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 12:41:37","1 nm resolution",

CXB 3590 4000k top bin (no reflectors)

"SN."," Model"," Number","Flux(lm)","Fe(W)","Eff.(lm/W)","x","y","u'","v'","Tc(K)","Duv","Ld(nm)","Pur(%)","Lp(nm)","HW(nm)","Red Ratio(%)","Green Ratio(%)","Blue Ratio(%)","Ra","SDCM","Lamp U(V)","Lamp I(A)","Lamp P(W)","Lamp PF","Luminaire U(V)","Luminaire I(A)","Luminaire P(W)","Luminaire PF","TMP(Deg)","Date","Remarks",
"0001","Nextlight 4000k COB ","N-00896","29084","89.800","135.7","0.3823","0.3789","0.2255","0.5028"," 3966","4.40e-004","579.0"," 28.4","448.0"," 21.4"," 20.0"," 77.0"," 3.0"," 83.4"," 51.0","118.1","1.815","214.4","0.9950","","","","","150.0","2016-10-06 12:09:42","1 nm resolution",



that's it, back to growing

Click to expand...

ok so not to be a dick ,but can someone dumb this post down for me and tell me what it means.maybe just for the first cree 3590 3000k top bin no reflector? what are the numbers in laymens terms ?

PSUAGRO. said:

research how a sphere works

Click to expand...

i know how a sphere works it was the way you wrote it up that had me confused, i edited that post about 6 times after the fact. The "at the wall" threw me as its not "at the wall" its "out of the regulated metered power supply" but i get the euphemism.

thanks for the data, i wasnt criticizing, i was trying to contribute

PSUAGRO. said:

Fine, you can pay for the next round of tests!lol...................it's a baseline, take from it what you will

Click to expand...

i think its great data and like i said in line with what we would expect. i should have a small sphere in the next month or so to do chip tests at least so you'll see lots of data from this end for sure. im trying to create a database of real-world performance of all the common chips out there vs temp and current that would eliminate mfr bias

focusing on low-current region which is largely ignored by the chip mfrs.

think of it as the consumer reports of chips.

i recently got some chinese chips for testing that were so far out of spec - 3000K chips testing at 3700K on the spectrometer. if there are manufacturers out there that have loose tolerances on color or output in their chips we want to figure it out. same concept to identify the chips that outperform their datasheet or have excessive bin variation, etc. is a 3500k from one manufacturer closer to another mfr's 3000k or 4000k? what is he actual QER/LER for chips which have "typical" spectrums in their datasheets? what about the effect of spectral shift on QER/LER?

this kind of testing will put you in the poorhouse if youre paying a lab. only way to answer these questions is to get a sphere and keep it busy

PSUAGRO. said:

can't post the spectral data(nm), waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long

Click to expand...

if you did feel like sharing you can plot it in excel and post a small pic

sixstring2112 said:

ok so not to be a dick ,but can someone dumb this post down for me and tell me what it means.maybe just for the first cree 3590 3000k top bin no reflector? what are the numbers in laymens terms ?

Click to expand...

numbers,data ,blah,blah,#S#S#S+-/======== PPF/W.............<this is what matters, you don't want to read my pms,lol....................I know i'm the asshole for this, sure.

we're hovering around 40% system efficiency not 60%........I'm a big fan of supra and company, and don't want to take away anything from his years of great contributions==== did the best they could with what they had at the time, problem was the info available was inaccurate.

Watt for watt It's a BIG jump from fluoros, crappy epiled, not HPS.........

Doesn't matter what diff lens/reflectors/drivers/cobs(citi,b-lux,cree).........not hitting anything near 60% system efficiency in the real world atm

the online tools and calculators are worthless........... topbin cxb cobs/meanwell drivers/beefy cooliance pinsinks that was tested, barely broke 1.9 BARE. Quality Angelina reflectors rob you of 9%, lenses are way worse(I've seen the #s)....don't listen to the bs that vendors are spewing about them, not breaking the laws of physics== with them on you will be around/below 1000w DE new with current cobs

puffenuff said:

Thanks for getting this organized and done, P! It's about time we see some real numbers and not just some estimates / bold claims based on spreadsheets by these mathemagicians and non-growers that have plagued RIU in the recent past.

Click to expand...

NapalmD said:

Amen to that! Good job @PSUAGRO and everyone involved.

Click to expand...

I didn't do shit except blow up some inboxes, this all comes down to dan(timber) and nick(nextlight)............could have easily said it was private , they allowed the public share..............very cool of them, love it, great thing they did for us.

CobKits said:

i know how a sphere works it was the way you wrote it up that had me confused, i edited that post about 6 times after the fact. The "at the wall" threw me as its not "at the wall" its "out of the regulated metered power supply" but i get the euphemism.

thanks for the data, i wasnt criticizing, i was trying to contribute



i think its great data and like i said in line with what we would expect. i should have a small sphere in the next month or so to do chip tests at least so you'll see lots of data from this end for sure. im trying to create a database of real-world performance of all the common chips out there vs temp and current that would eliminate mfr bias

focusing on low-current region which is largely ignored by the chip mfrs.

think of it as the consumer reports of chips.

i recently got some chinese chips for testing that were so far out of spec - 3000K chips testing at 3700K on the spectrometer. if there are manufacturers out there that have loose tolerances on color or output in their chips we want to figure it out. same concept to identify the chips that outperform their datasheet or have excessive bin variation, etc. is a 3500k from one manufacturer closer to another mfr's 3000k or 4000k? what is he actual QER/LER for chips which have "typical" spectrums in their datasheets? what about the effect of spectral shift on QER/LER?

this kind of testing will put you in the poorhouse if youre paying a lab. only way to answer these questions is to get a sphere and keep it busy

Click to expand...

I can't help you if you can't comprehend the post.........i'm lazy and it was a copy/paste job from nick(see quotes in the post)

Low current/more chips ATM is bad business $$$$$$$,hence the ignoring, if a diy(efficiency enthusiast ) grower wants it and doesn't care what it costs, that's another story

bare chip/small sphere means shit on system level.........you know, like the finished panels we hang over our grows and need real#s ............no offence

Cree hit 300lm/w in the lab, if it those same chips barely break 150lm/w in my grow fixture===== guess which one I care about?

CobKits said:

if you did feel like sharing you can plot it in excel and post a small pic

Click to expand...

you really want to read hundreds of points per source?............I just got a new win 10 laptop, maybe I'll figure it out


I thought osram zelion would break 2ppf/w, was wrong..........never disassembled the damn thing and realized they skimped on the drivers and used THICK pmma lenses. I'm far from an expert myself but the sphere never lies their is a reason why nick doesn't want to release the #s on them.

PSUAGRO. said:

we're hovering around 40% system efficiency not 60%........I'm a big fan of supra and company, and don't want to take away anything from his years of great contributions==== did the best they could with what they had at the time, problem was the info available was inaccurate.

Click to expand...

well I dont think anybody was claiming 60% *system* effciiency when the popular 3500K setup was 56% chip efficiency x 92% driver efficiency minus any optics. mid 40s is realistic and what anybody who thought the system through would expect that performance (for the same reason that 2100 umol hps bulbs are 1500-1700 in real life). Supras numbers are still accurate youre just interpreting them wrong.

PSUAGRO. said:

Doesn't matter what diff lens/reflectors/drivers/cobs(citi,b-lux,cree).........not hitting anything near 60% system efficiency in the real world atm

Click to expand...

well maybe not with your 3000K setup pushed medium hard on a midrange-efficiency driver with optics....not sure if you were expecting to get 60% system efficiency starting with a chip thats in the low 50s itself. obviously you understand that there are 3 bin levels above the one you tested. 1400 mA is by no means a frugal current thats $0.70/watt in cree land and $0.30-$0.50/watt in other manufacturers - i dont think that 700 mA is really all that extreme

60% system efficiency is easily possible. with a big LES 5000K or 6500K 70 cri at 700 mA or less, pushing into the mid 60s at the chip level, and a 96% efficient driver and no optics. id bet money on 58-61% system efficiency all day long on that. and chips are only getting better all the time so we will soon be there with 4000K, then 3000K.

PSUAGRO. said:

bare chip/small sphere means shit on system level.........

Click to expand...

its actually one of, if not the largest factor in the overall efficiency calculation

PSUAGRO. said:

you really want to read hundreds of points per source?............I just got a new win 10 laptop, maybe I'll figure it out

Click to expand...

no but check this out

this

380 0.011388
381 0.01129
382 0.010579
383 0.009695
384 0.009974
385 0.010339
386 0.010182
387 0.010032
388 0.00991
389 0.009771
390 0.009592
391 0.009461
392 0.009391
393 0.009202
394 0.008927
395 0.009057
396 0.009351
397 0.009104
398 0.008759
399 0.009079
400 0.009387
401 0.009496
402 0.009754
403 0.010466
404 0.010999
405 0.011247
406 0.012039
407 0.013336
408 0.014885
409 0.016569
410 0.018739
411 0.021039
412 0.024333
413 0.027756
414 0.031936
415 0.036289
416 0.041348
417 0.046912
418 0.053486
419 0.061099
420 0.06988
421 0.080108
422 0.091263
423 0.104272
424 0.117906
425 0.133419
426 0.149272
427 0.168831
428 0.188855
429 0.211202
430 0.23459
431 0.260319
432 0.287896
433 0.317741
434 0.349277
435 0.381985
436 0.416639
437 0.451999
438 0.490032
439 0.528458
440 0.567757
441 0.607679
442 0.650724
443 0.694245
444 0.738814
445 0.783025
446 0.826812
447 0.867747
448 0.906824
449 0.937861
450 0.96627
451 0.984143
452 1
453 0.999996
454 0.996892
455 0.981625
456 0.960589
457 0.929055
458 0.892369
459 0.850674
460 0.806099
461 0.760044
462 0.714445
463 0.668949
464 0.626835
465 0.585688
466 0.550488
467 0.516803
468 0.486934
469 0.459089
470 0.433793
471 0.411213
472 0.390429
473 0.371155
474 0.35235
475 0.336617
476 0.321399
477 0.308939
478 0.297545
479 0.289328
480 0.282213
481 0.276646
482 0.272804
483 0.2702
484 0.269571
485 0.269602
486 0.271102
487 0.272963
488 0.277213
489 0.281508
490 0.285934
491 0.291391
492 0.298209
493 0.305018
494 0.311822
495 0.319016
496 0.326321
497 0.334343
498 0.342379
499 0.350289
500 0.357714
501 0.364064
502 0.371395
503 0.379742
504 0.387694
505 0.395454
506 0.403138
507 0.410761
508 0.417205
509 0.423622
510 0.429943
511 0.436255
512 0.442553
513 0.448093
514 0.453125
515 0.458156
516 0.463186
517 0.46787
518 0.472434
519 0.476444
520 0.480154
521 0.48334
522 0.486496
523 0.489629
524 0.492785
525 0.495948
526 0.499095
527 0.502075
528 0.504151
529 0.506149
530 0.508007
531 0.509903
532 0.511828
533 0.513353
534 0.514753
535 0.516888
536 0.518912
537 0.520307
538 0.521598
539 0.522723
540 0.523677
541 0.524516
542 0.5255
543 0.526504
544 0.526854
545 0.527242
546 0.527749
547 0.528741
548 0.530316
549 0.531274
550 0.531931
551 0.532033
552 0.532087
553 0.532293
554 0.532254
555 0.531736
556 0.53142
557 0.531262
558 0.53119
559 0.53114
560 0.531132
561 0.531058
562 0.530789
563 0.530507
564 0.530214
565 0.52921
566 0.52792
567 0.527515
568 0.527096
569 0.526413
570 0.525769
571 0.525177
572 0.524678
573 0.524225
574 0.522964
575 0.521637
576 0.520409
577 0.518996
578 0.517299
579 0.515821
580 0.514462
581 0.51247
582 0.510536
583 0.509383
584 0.507913
585 0.505964
586 0.503792
587 0.5015
588 0.499254
589 0.49688
590 0.493858
591 0.490833
592 0.487803
593 0.484823
594 0.481864
595 0.478851
596 0.475689
597 0.472011
598 0.468296
599 0.464543
600 0.46014
601 0.455555
602 0.451812
603 0.448092
604 0.444427
605 0.440401
606 0.436113
607 0.432137
608 0.428086
609 0.42321
610 0.418198
611 0.412996
612 0.408237
613 0.403669
614 0.398898
615 0.39411
616 0.389289
617 0.384178
618 0.378839
619 0.37363
620 0.368351
621 0.362523
622 0.357003
623 0.35188
624 0.346551
625 0.341156
626 0.335959
627 0.330812
628 0.325763
629 0.320606
630 0.315387
631 0.309515
632 0.303643
633 0.297887
634 0.292668
635 0.287872
636 0.282422
637 0.277074
638 0.272632
639 0.267619
640 0.26203
641 0.256613
642 0.251239
643 0.245884
644 0.240794
645 0.236022
646 0.231375
647 0.226766
648 0.222184
649 0.217328
650 0.212111
651 0.207433
652 0.202876
653 0.197845
654 0.193017
655 0.188462
656 0.184005
657 0.179674
658 0.176185
659 0.172265
660 0.167802
661 0.1637
662 0.159698
663 0.155699
664 0.15157
665 0.147297
666 0.143716
667 0.14033
668 0.137167
669 0.133897
670 0.130532
671 0.127349
672 0.124152
673 0.120837
674 0.117609
675 0.114438
676 0.111125
677 0.10812
678 0.105745
679 0.103428
680 0.1011
681 0.098275
682 0.095623
683 0.09319
684 0.090004
685 0.086898
686 0.084865
687 0.082594
688 0.080144
689 0.078611
690 0.07686
691 0.074576
692 0.072873
693 0.071301
694 0.068926
695 0.066768
696 0.064831
697 0.06297
698 0.061232
699 0.059775
700 0.058613
701 0.057562
702 0.056217
703 0.054398
704 0.052075
705 0.05036
706 0.048947
707 0.04807
708 0.046891
709 0.045687
710 0.045217
711 0.044421
712 0.043339
713 0.041558
714 0.039899
715 0.038513
716 0.03725
717 0.036089
718 0.035181
719 0.034848
720 0.034774
721 0.033972
722 0.033047
723 0.032002
724 0.031173
725 0.030451
726 0.029879
727 0.029311
728 0.028691
729 0.027926
730 0.027644
731 0.027514
732 0.027125
733 0.026077
734 0.024658
735 0.024147
736 0.023585
737 0.022977
738 0.02286
739 0.023387
740 0.024725
741 0.024031
742 0.023255
743 0.022717
744 0.021126
745 0.019936
746 0.020073
747 0.01988
748 0.019809
749 0.020326
750 0.019934
751 0.019508
752 0.019987
753 0.018851
754 0.017434
755 0.01735
756 0.016957
757 0.016492
758 0.016273
759 0.016571
760 0.017108
761 0.017698
762 0.017622
763 0.017154
764 0.016269
765 0.016069
766 0.016212
767 0.016607
768 0.017135
769 0.017748
770 0.018468
771 0.018048
772 0.01719
773 0.016026
774 0.016059
775 0.016545
776 0.017422
777 0.017925
778 0.018434
779 0.018991
780 0.018942

can quite easily be shown as this

Watch Out Brother P He Just Might Bite Your Knees

PSUAGRO. said:

numbers,data ,blah,blah,#S#S#S+-/======== PPF/W.............<this is what matters, you don't want to read my pms,lol....................I know i'm the asshole for this, sure.

we're hovering around 40% system efficiency not 60%........I'm a big fan of supra and company, and don't want to take away anything from his years of great contributions==== did the best they could with what they had at the time, problem was the info available was inaccurate.

Watt for watt It's a BIG jump from fluoros, crappy epiled, not HPS.........

Doesn't matter what diff lens/reflectors/drivers/cobs(citi,b-lux,cree).........not hitting anything near 60% system efficiency in the real world atm

the online tools and calculators are worthless........... topbin cxb cobs/meanwell drivers/beefy cooliance pinsinks that was tested, barely broke 1.9 BARE. Quality Angelina reflectors rob you of 9%, lenses are way worse(I've seen the #s)....don't listen to the bs that vendors are spewing about them, not breaking the laws of physics== with them on you will be around/below 1000w DE new with current cobs




I didn't do shit except blow up some inboxes, this all comes down to dan(timber) and nick(nextlight)............could have easily said it was private , they allowed the public share..............very cool of them, love it, great thing they did for us.



I can't help you if can't comprehend the post.........i'm lazy and it was a copy/paste job from nick(see quotes in the post)
Low current/more chips ATM is bad business $$$$$$$,hence the ignoring, if a diy(efficiency enthusiast ) grower wants it and doesn't care what it costs, that's another story

bare chip/small sphere means shit on system level.........you know, like the finished panels we hang over our grows and need real#s ............no offence

Cree hit 300lm/w in the lab, if it those same chips barely break 150lm/w in my grow fixture===== guess which one I care about?



you really want to read hundreds of points per source?............I just got a new win 10 laptop, maybe I'll figure it out


I thought osram zelion would break 2ppf/w, was wrong..........never disassembled the damn thing and realized they skimped on the drivers and used THICK pmma lenses. I'm far from an expert myself but the sphere never lies their is a reason why nick doesn't want to release the #s on them.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the breakdown bro,much easier to decifer that way lol.i like the sounds of 300lm/w how do we do that

CobKits said:

well I dont think anybody was claiming 60% *system* effciiency when the popular 3500K setup was 56% chip efficiency x 92% driver efficiency minus any optics. mid 40s is realistic and what anybody who thought the system through would expect that performance (for the same reason that 2100 umol hps bulbs are 1500-1700 in real life)



well maybe not with your 3000K setup pushed medium hard on a midrange-efficiency driver with optics....

but its easily possible. with a big LES 5000K or 6500K 70 cri at 700 mA or less, pushing into the mid 60s at the chip level, and a 96% efficient driver and no optics. id bet money on 58-61% system efficiency all day long on that. and chips are only getting better all the time so we will soon be there with 4000K, then 3000K.

its actually one of, if not the largest factor in the overall efficiency calculation

Click to expand...

read again topbin cxb, most popular mah by sales(not pushing it really), efficient meanwell, NO OPTICS.

Of course you would say that COBkits..................PROVE IT then

I'm sorry you can't afford a real sphere........again I care about not misinforming growers & #s being put out in a GROW room

CobKits said:

no but check this out

this

380 0.011388
381 0.01129
382 0.010579
383 0.009695
384 0.009974
385 0.010339
386 0.010182
387 0.010032
388 0.00991
389 0.009771
390 0.009592
391 0.009461
392 0.009391
393 0.009202
394 0.008927
395 0.009057
396 0.009351
397 0.009104
398 0.008759
399 0.009079
400 0.009387
401 0.009496
402 0.009754
403 0.010466
404 0.010999
405 0.011247
406 0.012039
407 0.013336
408 0.014885
409 0.016569
410 0.018739
411 0.021039
412 0.024333
413 0.027756
414 0.031936
415 0.036289
416 0.041348
417 0.046912
418 0.053486
419 0.061099
420 0.06988
421 0.080108
422 0.091263
423 0.104272
424 0.117906
425 0.133419
426 0.149272
427 0.168831
428 0.188855
429 0.211202
430 0.23459
431 0.260319
432 0.287896
433 0.317741
434 0.349277
435 0.381985
436 0.416639
437 0.451999
438 0.490032
439 0.528458
440 0.567757
441 0.607679
442 0.650724
443 0.694245
444 0.738814
445 0.783025
446 0.826812
447 0.867747
448 0.906824
449 0.937861
450 0.96627
451 0.984143
452 1
453 0.999996
454 0.996892
455 0.981625
456 0.960589
457 0.929055
458 0.892369
459 0.850674
460 0.806099
461 0.760044
462 0.714445
463 0.668949
464 0.626835
465 0.585688
466 0.550488
467 0.516803
468 0.486934
469 0.459089
470 0.433793
471 0.411213
472 0.390429
473 0.371155
474 0.35235
475 0.336617
476 0.321399
477 0.308939
478 0.297545
479 0.289328
480 0.282213
481 0.276646
482 0.272804
483 0.2702
484 0.269571
485 0.269602
486 0.271102
487 0.272963
488 0.277213
489 0.281508
490 0.285934
491 0.291391
492 0.298209
493 0.305018
494 0.311822
495 0.319016
496 0.326321
497 0.334343
498 0.342379
499 0.350289
500 0.357714
501 0.364064
502 0.371395
503 0.379742
504 0.387694
505 0.395454
506 0.403138
507 0.410761
508 0.417205
509 0.423622
510 0.429943
511 0.436255
512 0.442553
513 0.448093
514 0.453125
515 0.458156
516 0.463186
517 0.46787
518 0.472434
519 0.476444
520 0.480154
521 0.48334
522 0.486496
523 0.489629
524 0.492785
525 0.495948
526 0.499095
527 0.502075
528 0.504151
529 0.506149
530 0.508007
531 0.509903
532 0.511828
533 0.513353
534 0.514753
535 0.516888
536 0.518912
537 0.520307
538 0.521598
539 0.522723
540 0.523677
541 0.524516
542 0.5255
543 0.526504
544 0.526854
545 0.527242
546 0.527749
547 0.528741
548 0.530316
549 0.531274
550 0.531931
551 0.532033
552 0.532087
553 0.532293
554 0.532254
555 0.531736
556 0.53142
557 0.531262
558 0.53119
559 0.53114
560 0.531132
561 0.531058
562 0.530789
563 0.530507
564 0.530214
565 0.52921
566 0.52792
567 0.527515
568 0.527096
569 0.526413
570 0.525769
571 0.525177
572 0.524678
573 0.524225
574 0.522964
575 0.521637
576 0.520409
577 0.518996
578 0.517299
579 0.515821
580 0.514462
581 0.51247
582 0.510536
583 0.509383
584 0.507913
585 0.505964
586 0.503792
587 0.5015
588 0.499254
589 0.49688
590 0.493858
591 0.490833
592 0.487803
593 0.484823
594 0.481864
595 0.478851
596 0.475689
597 0.472011
598 0.468296
599 0.464543
600 0.46014
601 0.455555
602 0.451812
603 0.448092
604 0.444427
605 0.440401
606 0.436113
607 0.432137
608 0.428086
609 0.42321
610 0.418198
611 0.412996
612 0.408237
613 0.403669
614 0.398898
615 0.39411
616 0.389289
617 0.384178
618 0.378839
619 0.37363
620 0.368351
621 0.362523
622 0.357003
623 0.35188
624 0.346551
625 0.341156
626 0.335959
627 0.330812
628 0.325763
629 0.320606
630 0.315387
631 0.309515
632 0.303643
633 0.297887
634 0.292668
635 0.287872
636 0.282422
637 0.277074
638 0.272632
639 0.267619
640 0.26203
641 0.256613
642 0.251239
643 0.245884
644 0.240794
645 0.236022
646 0.231375
647 0.226766
648 0.222184
649 0.217328
650 0.212111
651 0.207433
652 0.202876
653 0.197845
654 0.193017
655 0.188462
656 0.184005
657 0.179674
658 0.176185
659 0.172265
660 0.167802
661 0.1637
662 0.159698
663 0.155699
664 0.15157
665 0.147297
666 0.143716
667 0.14033
668 0.137167
669 0.133897
670 0.130532
671 0.127349
672 0.124152
673 0.120837
674 0.117609
675 0.114438
676 0.111125
677 0.10812
678 0.105745
679 0.103428
680 0.1011
681 0.098275
682 0.095623
683 0.09319
684 0.090004
685 0.086898
686 0.084865
687 0.082594
688 0.080144
689 0.078611
690 0.07686
691 0.074576
692 0.072873
693 0.071301
694 0.068926
695 0.066768
696 0.064831
697 0.06297
698 0.061232
699 0.059775
700 0.058613
701 0.057562
702 0.056217
703 0.054398
704 0.052075
705 0.05036
706 0.048947
707 0.04807
708 0.046891
709 0.045687
710 0.045217
711 0.044421
712 0.043339
713 0.041558
714 0.039899
715 0.038513
716 0.03725
717 0.036089
718 0.035181
719 0.034848
720 0.034774
721 0.033972
722 0.033047
723 0.032002
724 0.031173
725 0.030451
726 0.029879
727 0.029311
728 0.028691
729 0.027926
730 0.027644
731 0.027514
732 0.027125
733 0.026077
734 0.024658
735 0.024147
736 0.023585
737 0.022977
738 0.02286
739 0.023387
740 0.024725
741 0.024031
742 0.023255
743 0.022717
744 0.021126
745 0.019936
746 0.020073
747 0.01988
748 0.019809
749 0.020326
750 0.019934
751 0.019508
752 0.019987
753 0.018851
754 0.017434
755 0.01735
756 0.016957
757 0.016492
758 0.016273
759 0.016571
760 0.017108
761 0.017698
762 0.017622
763 0.017154
764 0.016269
765 0.016069
766 0.016212
767 0.016607
768 0.017135
769 0.017748
770 0.018468
771 0.018048
772 0.01719
773 0.016026
774 0.016059
775 0.016545
776 0.017422
777 0.017925
778 0.018434
779 0.018991
780 0.018942

can quite easily be shown as this

View attachment 3803441

Click to expand...

I'll try posting it again when I get home from dinner...............If you really want it so bad

i dont care one way or another.. jsut saying if you want to post it its a 5 min job in excel to plot it

PSUAGRO. said:

the online tools and calculators are worthless........... topbin cxb cobs/meanwell drivers/beefy cooliance pinsinks that was tested, barely broke 1.9 BARE.

Click to expand...

saying the online calculators are worthless is like saying a hammer is worthless for driving screws. if you are using the tool appropriately they are excellent resources. cree pct, bggrass's java app, and others even have a handy box for entering driver/system efficiency. im not sure how a 4000K DB bin chip at 1400 mA testing exactly where we would expect it to in an 80-85% efficient system is a referendum on the validity of the online calculator tools but maybe im missing something

PSUAGRO. said:

The Raw data, not that anyone will read this shit...................I just wanted the ppf/w

can't post the spectral data(nm), waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long


osram ssl80 660nm kits(3 measurements till warm up)..........their from ledtech.de, not top bin but close

Click to expand...

trom...

puffenuff said:

these mathemagicians and non-growers that have plagued RIU in the recent past

Click to expand...

... a more readable view.


have trouble with understanding the ratio of blue in the spectrum. way to low for me
and what is TMP(Deg)

WPE - Wall plug eff. - System efficients

CobKits said:

can quite easily be shown as this

Click to expand...

two steps ahead, cobkid

TMP could be temp inside the sphere with a light cookin at steady state for awhile. if so 150F ambient is really high and would affect the flux for sure. i think the line between blue and green range is somewhat arbitrary - look how high the green is

ya bongo said:

two steps ahead, cobkid
View attachment 3803483

Click to expand...

did you replot my 6500k data? that was just an example and has nothing to do with this study

CobKits said:

saying the online calculators are worthless is like saying a hammer is worthless for driving screws. if you are using the tool appropriately they are excellent resources. cree pct, bggrass's java app, and others even have a handy box for entering driver/system efficiency. im not sure how a 4000K DB bin chip at 1400 mA testing exactly where we would expect it to in an 80-85% efficient system is a referendum on the validity of the online calculator tools but maybe im missing something

Click to expand...

A guy that has owned a sphere for years and has tested countless chips(still does) and tells me the first thing he learned are that online calculators "don't work" VS someone who just started his cob/diy business who gave wrong driver info months ago and got corrected by GG..........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

YOU DON"T HAVE ANYTHING TO VERIFY THE VALIDITY OF YOUR CLAIMS...............pretty simple, spend some money and get back to us............ill eat crow, nick too

if your trying to get this thread closed like GG's because it may hurt your business it's not happening........i'm not going fucking anywhere! unless they ban me..........you can work on that one


Spectral data is four colums and over 10000 characters .........so ill split it up

cxb3590 3000k top bin no reflectors spectral data part 1

"Wavelength(nm)","Spectrum","Spectrum(W/nm)","AD Value",
"380.0","0.0007","3.7225e-004","50.0",
"381.0","0.0006","3.3622e-004","50.0",
"382.0","0.0002","1.3383e-004","49.4",
"383.0","0.0000","0.0000e+000","49.0",
"384.0","0.0005","2.7018e-004","50.2",
"385.0","0.0006","3.1491e-004","50.4",
"386.0","0.0004","1.9847e-004","50.0",
"387.0","0.0001","7.9551e-005","49.4",
"388.0","0.0002","9.6665e-005","49.6",
"389.0","0.0003","1.5984e-004","50.0",
"390.0","0.0003","1.4848e-004","50.0",
"391.0","0.0005","2.9854e-004","51.2",
"392.0","0.0006","3.2124e-004","51.4",
"393.0","0.0004","2.5269e-004","51.0",
"394.0","0.0004","2.4083e-004","51.0",
"395.0","0.0004","2.2789e-004","51.0",
"396.0","0.0005","2.8204e-004","51.6",
"397.0","0.0006","3.1517e-004","52.0",
"398.0","0.0006","3.5671e-004","52.6",
"399.0","0.0008","4.4076e-004","53.6",
"400.0","0.0009","5.1994e-004","54.6",
"401.0","0.0011","6.4863e-004","56.2",
"402.0","0.0014","7.9816e-004","58.2",
"403.0","0.0018","1.0376e-003","61.3",
"404.0","0.0022","1.2488e-003","64.2",
"405.0","0.0027","1.5380e-003","67.9",
"406.0","0.0033","1.8704e-003","72.3",
"407.0","0.0039","2.2255e-003","77.5",
"408.0","0.0047","2.6672e-003","84.1",
"409.0","0.0057","3.2383e-003","92.3",
"410.0","0.0068","3.8430e-003","101.8",
"411.0","0.0081","4.5594e-003","113.6",
"412.0","0.0098","5.5230e-003","129.5",
"413.0","0.0117","6.5937e-003","148.1",
"414.0","0.0137","7.7610e-003","169.4",
"415.0","0.0162","9.1566e-003","194.7",
"416.0","0.0189","1.0679e-002","224.1",
"417.0","0.0219","1.2383e-002","259.7",
"418.0","0.0253","1.4280e-002","299.9",
"419.0","0.0290","1.6380e-002","343.3",
"420.0","0.0331","1.8691e-002","392.9",
"421.0","0.0377","2.1342e-002","447.6",
"422.0","0.0429","2.4248e-002","504.8",
"423.0","0.0485","2.7413e-002","566.3",
"424.0","0.0545","3.0805e-002","632.7",
"425.0","0.0610","3.4490e-002","703.0",
"426.0","0.0685","3.8745e-002","779.1",
"427.0","0.0767","4.3362e-002","863.3",
"428.0","0.0855","4.8366e-002","957.8",
"429.0","0.0953","5.3867e-002","1061.4",
"430.0","0.1054","5.9586e-002","1178.3",
"431.0","0.1167","6.5990e-002","1307.0",
"432.0","0.1284","7.2584e-002","1444.3",
"433.0","0.1408","7.9602e-002","1587.6",
"434.0","0.1542","8.7193e-002","1737.8",
"435.0","0.1683","9.5143e-002","1898.7",
"436.0","0.1840","1.0407e-001","2078.0",
"437.0","0.2017","1.1403e-001","2285.8",
"438.0","0.2220","1.2552e-001","2525.0",
"439.0","0.2432","1.3752e-001","2803.0",
"440.0","0.2677","1.5136e-001","3125.2",
"441.0","0.2968","1.6785e-001","3491.9",
"442.0","0.3301","1.8665e-001","3915.3",
"443.0","0.3654","2.0663e-001","4391.2",
"444.0","0.4043","2.2860e-001","4917.8",
"445.0","0.4447","2.5147e-001","5487.1",
"446.0","0.4841","2.7376e-001","6077.7",
"447.0","0.5201","2.9411e-001","6656.2",
"448.0","0.5510","3.1159e-001","7182.5",
"449.0","0.5741","3.2464e-001","7622.2",
"450.0","0.5860","3.3139e-001","7946.7",
"451.0","0.5861","3.3142e-001","8147.5",
"452.0","0.5746","3.2489e-001","8222.8",
"453.0","0.5549","3.1375e-001","8171.3",
"454.0","0.5284","2.9879e-001","8008.4",
"455.0","0.4969","2.8096e-001","7748.0",
"456.0","0.4632","2.6191e-001","7397.3",
"457.0","0.4298","2.4305e-001","6988.1",
"458.0","0.3987","2.2546e-001","6557.8",
"459.0","0.3728","2.1080e-001","6136.1",
"460.0","0.3492","1.9746e-001","5744.8",
"461.0","0.3298","1.8648e-001","5389.8",
"462.0","0.3153","1.7832e-001","5068.5",
"463.0","0.3012","1.7030e-001","4762.8",
"464.0","0.2888","1.6329e-001","4459.8",
"465.0","0.2781","1.5728e-001","4152.9",
"466.0","0.2677","1.5139e-001","3841.8",
"467.0","0.2558","1.4466e-001","3531.5",
"468.0","0.2435","1.3772e-001","3228.4",
"469.0","0.2327","1.3157e-001","2928.8",
"470.0","0.2214","1.2522e-001","2602.4",
"471.0","0.2081","1.1769e-001","2454.2",
"472.0","0.1961","1.1089e-001","2358.2",
"473.0","0.1869","1.0567e-001","2221.4",
"474.0","0.1790","1.0121e-001","2112.1",
"475.0","0.1735","9.8131e-002","2030.9",
"476.0","0.1696","9.5922e-002","1970.9",
"477.0","0.1669","9.4395e-002","1928.2",
"478.0","0.1662","9.3964e-002","1904.1",
"479.0","0.1673","9.4612e-002","1893.9",
"480.0","0.1685","9.5271e-002","1892.5",
"481.0","0.1700","9.6122e-002","1900.0",
"482.0","0.1722","9.7392e-002","1914.3",
"483.0","0.1757","9.9339e-002","1929.8",
"484.0","0.1799","1.0172e-001","1946.5",
"485.0","0.1843","1.0424e-001","1966.3",
"486.0","0.1889","1.0679e-001","1993.7",
"487.0","0.1936","1.0945e-001","2036.2",
"488.0","0.1998","1.1295e-001","2091.8",
"489.0","0.2065","1.1676e-001","2158.3",
"490.0","0.2133","1.2063e-001","2233.5",
"491.0","0.2205","1.2469e-001","2314.2",
"492.0","0.2291","1.2954e-001","2400.6",
"493.0","0.2391","1.3523e-001","2488.0",
"494.0","0.2489","1.4075e-001","2574.6",
"495.0","0.2586","1.4624e-001","2662.6",
"496.0","0.2675","1.5129e-001","2753.3",
"497.0","0.2777","1.5705e-001","2846.1",
"498.0","0.2876","1.6265e-001","2941.6",
"499.0","0.2979","1.6847e-001","3033.3",
"500.0","0.3088","1.7462e-001","3121.3",
"501.0","0.3200","1.8096e-001","3200.6",
"502.0","0.3305","1.8687e-001","3276.5",
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