Sub Prime Politicians ...

ViRedd

New Member
Sub-Prime Politicians

By Thomas Sowell
Wednesday, August 8, 2007


Amid all the hand-wringing and finger-pointing as housing markets collapse, mortgage foreclosures skyrocket, and financial markets panic, there is very little attention being paid to the fundamental economic and political decisions that led to this mess.

The growth in risky "sub-prime" mortgage loans by people buying homes they could not really afford has been a key factor in the collapse of housing markets, when the risks caught up with both borrowers and lenders.
But why were home buyers suddenly taking out so many risky loans and lenders suddenly arranging so much "creative" financing for these borrowers?
One clue is the concentration of such risky behavior in particular places and times.

Interest-only mortgages, where nothing is being paid on the principal for the first few years, enable many people to get started on buying a home with lower mortgage payments at the outset.

But of course it is only a matter of time before the mortgage payments go up and, unless their income has gone up enough in the meantime for them to be able to afford the new and higher payments, such borrowers can end up losing their homes.

Such risky mortgage loans were rare just a few years ago. As of 2002, fewer than 10 percent of the new mortgages in the United States were of this type. But, by 2006, 31 percent of all new mortgages were of this "creative" or risky type.

In the San Francisco Bay Area, 66 percent of the new mortgages were of this type.

Why this difference in times and places? Because housing prices were skyrocketing in some places and times, so that people of modest incomes had to go out on a limb to buy a house, if they expected to buy a house at all.

But why were housing prices going up so fast, in the first place? A number of studies of communities across the United States and in countries overseas turned up the same conclusion: Government restrictions on building.

While many other factors can be involved -- rising incomes, population growth, construction costs -- a scrutiny of the times and places where housing prices doubled, tripled, or quadrupled within a decade shows that restrictions on building have been the key.

Attractive and heady phrases like "open space," "smart growth" and the like have accompanied land use restrictions that made the cost of land rise in many places to the point where it greatly exceeded the cost of the homes built on the land.

In places that resisted this political rhetoric, home prices remained reasonable, despite rising incomes and population growth.

Construction costs were seldom a major factor, for there was relatively little construction in places with severe building restrictions and skyrocketing home prices.

In short, government has been the principal factor preventing the "affordable housing" that politicians talk about so much.

Politicians have also been a key factor behind pushing lenders to lend to borrowers with lower prospects of being able to repay their loans.

The Community Reinvestment Act lets politicians pressure lenders to lend to people they might not lend to otherwise -- and the same politicians are quick to cry "exploitation" when the interest charged to high-risk borrowers reflects that risk.

The huge losses of sub-prime lenders, some of whom have gone bankrupt, demonstrate again the consequences of letting politicians try to micro-manage the economy.

Yet with all the finger-pointing in the media and in government, seldom is a finger pointed at the politicians at local, state and national levels who have played a key role in setting up the conditions that led to financial disasters for individual home buyers and for those who lent to them.

While financial markets are painfully adjusting and both lenders and borrowers are becoming less likely to take on so much risky "creative" financing in the future, politicians show no sign of changing.
Why should they, when they have largely escaped blame for the disasters that their policies fostered?

Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy.
 

medicineman

New Member
Could be a factor, you can always blame it on the politicians. But that doesn't excuse the greedy lenders and real estate agents.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Could be a factor, you can always blame it on the politicians. But that doesn't excuse the greedy lenders and real estate agents.
How about personal responsibility, Med? Does that ever figure into your political equasion?

Here's an example: The housing market has been booming for five years with no let-up in sight. A husband and wife, now renting, decides to call a Realtor to see if they can buy something. The Realtor finds them a small home and arranges the financing through a reputable lender like Countrywide. The loan officer at Countrywide tells the couple that yes, he can do the financing, but the only loan they will qualify for is an adjustble rate mortgage with very low payments for the first three years, then after that, the interest increases.

BY LAW, the lender MUST disclose, in writing, EXACTLY what the terms are and the borrowers MUST sign the disclosure form. The couple decides that, even though, when the rate increases in three years, they would have made a substantial profit as "the housing prices are sure to continue to rise." They know that for a fact because all their friends told them so at every cocktail party they've attended over the past five years! So, they decide to chance it, sign the loan documents, and close the escrow.

Two years later, the housing market slows and the prices begin to drop. Knowing the interest rate on their loan is going to rise in another year and they won't be able to afford the payments, they decide to sell. They call in a very experienced Realtor who has seen these market fluctuations before. The Realtor is a professional who knows exactly what he is doing. He knows exactly how to price homes accuratly. He tells the absolute truth and knows through his experience that if the couple doesn't want to hear the truth, his best option is to walk away from the listing. His advice is to price it to sell while they can still realize a healthy profit. They don't like the price the Realtor suggested (which happened to be the truth), so they call in three more agents. All three agents get into a bidding war over the price and all suggest to the sellers an inflated price hoping to get the listing with the idea of talking the couple into lowering the price after the listing is obtained. A bait and switch routine.

The house sits on the market for months and months. The couple continue to keep their price inflated, hoping on hope. The market continues to drop. The market drops to the point where there is no equity left ... in fact, they now owe more on the property than what its worth.

The listing agreement runs out with the lying agent and the couple call back the first Realtor who had suggested the correct price months before. Now, the Realtor has some really bad news, and because he's a professional, he has no qualms about telling the couple the absolute truth. If the couple want to sell they will (or he will) have to negotiate with the lender for a "short sale."

A "short sale" is where the lender agrees not to foreclose on the property and will take as much as the home can be sold for, short of the mortgage amount. Let's say for example, the couple owe $500,000 on the loan and the home can only be sold for $400,000. The lender takes the $100,000 loss and calls it a day and the couple do not have a forclosure on their credit record.

The lender writes off the $100,000 loss against their income taxes. The lender also sends a 1099 to the couple with a copy to the IRS. The $100,000 is considered to be ordinary income and the couple must pay income taxes on it.

The professional Realtor who finally represents the seller in the short sale could have originally made the couple a handsome profit on the home, but they didn't want the truth, they wanted pie in the sky. As it turns out, the Realtor has to work ten times as hard negotiating with the lender and for far less money than he would have earned in the beginning. Why? Because lenders don't allow the Realtors to earn full brokerage fees on short sales. The brokerage fees are cut to the bone.

Med ... Please read the above carefully and tell us who the greedy ones are, who the stupid ones are and who the dishonest ones are. Thanks ...

Vi
 

marijuanabusiness

Active Member
Are you sure the couple has to pay income taxes on the short sale loss? That doesn't seem correct? That would mean they owe $25K, but what profit or gain are they showing? I just read that Mit Romney was an investor in some of the hedge funds that have recently filed for bankruptcy.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Are you sure the couple has to pay income taxes on the short sale loss? That doesn't seem correct? That would mean they owe $25K, but what profit or gain are they showing? I just read that Mit Romney was an investor in some of the hedge funds that have recently filed for bankruptcy.
Yes, I'm positive the couple has to pay taxes on the $100,000. Remember, the lender wrote the $100,000 off as a loss against THEIR taxes. The IRS doesn't care who pays the taxes as long as someone does. The couple gets a 1099 from the lender and a copy goes to the IRS with the couple's Taxpayer I.D. number (Social Security Number) on it. At the time the couple files their taxes, if they don't include the $100,000 as income on their 1040, and submit their copy of the 1099, it won't compute at the IRS. The IRS does computer matching, therefore, the couple will get a bill from the IRS including a penalty and interest.

The same thing happens if one has a credit card balance he/she can't pay and negotiates a settlement with the card company. Let's say its a Visa account that has a $10,000 balance on it. The debtor settles the account for $5,000. The lender writes the $5,000 loss off as a cost of doing business and sends the debtor a 1099 for $5,000. The IRS looks at that as income.

Any mortgage relief or credit card balance relief offered by the lender has tax consequences ... IF the lender sends the debtor a 1099.

You've asked "what profit are they showing." The answer is mortgage relief ... and that's considered income by the IRS.

Your Mitt Romney senerio is a different animal. If he had invested in hedge funds that went bankrupt, then he could possibly write the loss off against his taxes, or at least offset any gain he had on stocks that increased in value and had been cashed in.

I'm not nearly as clear on stocks and bonds as I am on real estate though ... so I may be incorrect on the Romney thing.

Vi
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Talk about spin... IT'S A TWISTER, IT'S A TWISTER!!!!
Lenders since the change in bankruptcy laws have been using predatory interest rates knowing that people couldn't get out from under the debt. Lenders have brought it upon themselves. In the Days when you could file Chapter 7 bankruptcy (you can't do it as it was before Bush fucked with it) people would file against the Credit Card Companies, they did not include their Mortgage on it as they didn't want to lose their house.
This is what happens when you let lending institutions write the bankruptcy laws.

If your going to post stuff Vi, look at both right wing and left wing sites and figure the truth is really somewhere in the middle.
 

medicineman

New Member
I don't know Vi, You've definently got a dog in this fight, I'm sure you're busy trying to cover your ass, But still with the 25,000 tax bill, the buyer gets screwed even more, Right, I mean he loses his down, he loses any future equity, and he loses his home and has to file bankruptcy to be able to make payments to the feds on the tax scam. Sounds like the realtors were the ones that skated with all the commissions, you sleaze.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Dank sez ...

Talk about spin... IT'S A TWISTER, IT'S A TWISTER!!!!
Lenders since the change in bankruptcy laws have been using predatory interest rates knowing that people couldn't get out from under the debt. Lenders have brought it upon themselves. In the Days when you could file Chapter 7 bankruptcy (you can't do it as it was before Bush fucked with it) people would file against the Credit Card Companies, they did not include their Mortgage on it as they didn't want to lose their house.
This is what happens when you let lending institutions write the bankruptcy laws.

If your going to post stuff Vi, look at both right wing and left wing sites and figure the truth is really somewhere in the middle.


There is nothing "right wing" or "left wing about this, Dank. And ... we are not talking about the couple's credit card debts ... we are talking about a mortgage that is about to be defaulted on.

Med sez ...

I don't know Vi, You've definently got a dog in this fight, I'm sure you're busy trying to cover your ass, But still with the 25,000 tax bill, the buyer gets screwed even more, Right, I mean he loses his down, he loses any future equity, and he loses his home and has to file bankruptcy to be able to make payments to the feds on the tax scam. Sounds like the realtors were the ones that skated with all the commissions, you sleaze.

I'm not busy trying to cover MY ass, Med. On the contrary, I'm trying to cover the asses of the pie-in-the-sky consumers out there who made mistakes based upon investments they made using emotion instead of logic. If you notice, I haven't been spending as much time here trying to educate you and the Dankster as of late. That's because its "back to basics" time in my business ... and that requires a 24/7 effort. No bull, I haven't had a complete day off in several weeks now.

The real estate agents didn't skate with commissions, Med, anymore than you skated with your paycheck when you were a carpenter.

The couple isn't getting screwed by being taxed on the $100,000. They got the use of the money and didn't have to pay it back. Its INCOME.

Now, this really bothers me, Med: "Sounds like the realtors were the ones that skated with all the commissions, you sleaze."

Are you refering to me as a "sleaze?" If so, did you take the time to read my post regarding the couple who bought the home? How can a person who tells the truth, even to the point of walking away from a listing if the sellers want a totally unrealistic price be a sleaze?

Again ....

Med ... Please read the above carefully and tell us who the greedy ones are, who the stupid ones are and who the dishonest ones are. Thanks ...

Vi





 

medicineman

New Member
Dank sez ...

Talk about spin... IT'S A TWISTER, IT'S A TWISTER!!!!
Lenders since the change in bankruptcy laws have been using predatory interest rates knowing that people couldn't get out from under the debt. Lenders have brought it upon themselves. In the Days when you could file Chapter 7 bankruptcy (you can't do it as it was before Bush fucked with it) people would file against the Credit Card Companies, they did not include their Mortgage on it as they didn't want to lose their house.
This is what happens when you let lending institutions write the bankruptcy laws.

If your going to post stuff Vi, look at both right wing and left wing sites and figure the truth is really somewhere in the middle.

There is nothing "right wing" or "left wing about this, Dank. And ... we are not talking about the couple's credit card debts ... we are talking about a mortgage that is about to be defaulted on.

Med sez ...

I don't know Vi, You've definently got a dog in this fight, I'm sure you're busy trying to cover your ass, But still with the 25,000 tax bill, the buyer gets screwed even more, Right, I mean he loses his down, he loses any future equity, and he loses his home and has to file bankruptcy to be able to make payments to the feds on the tax scam. Sounds like the realtors were the ones that skated with all the commissions, you sleaze.

I'm not busy trying to cover MY ass, Med. On the contrary, I'm trying to cover the asses of the pie-in-the-sky consumers out there who made mistakes based upon investments they made using emotion instead of logic. If you notice, I haven't been spending as much time here trying to educate you and the Dankster as of late. That's because its "back to basics" time in my business ... and that requires a 24/7 effort. No bull, I haven't had a complete day off in several weeks now.

The real estate agents didn't skate with commissions, Med, anymore than you skated with your paycheck when you were a carpenter.

The couple isn't getting screwed by being taxed on the $100,000. They got the use of the money and didn't have to pay it back. Its INCOME.

Now, this really bothers me, Med: "Sounds like the realtors were the ones that skated with all the commissions, you sleaze."

Are you refering to me as a "sleaze?" If so, did you take the time to read my post regarding the couple who bought the home? How can a person who tells the truth, even to the point of walking away from a listing if the sellers want a totally unrealistic price be a sleaze?

Again ....

Med ... Please read the above carefully and tell us who the greedy ones are, who the stupid ones are and who the dishonest ones are. Thanks ...

Vi
The homeowner may be the dumbass for wanting a home he can't afford with the subprime loan thingy, but I'm pretty sure the realtors and lenders didn't try and talk him away from their commissions and out of the sale, come on. Lets blame it on the dumb ass consumer that only wants a chance to own a home, with prices going through the roof, the sooner they could get in the cheaper it would be, I'll agree the consumer was dumb, but the realtors and lenders acted like used car salesmen. (you sleaze was an attempt at humor)
 

Resinman

Well-Known Member
i may have read the article wrong

the federal reserve in the USA creates the excess money to create the asst bubble

this time it was real eastate

last one was the tech bubble

they just have not cut back on the money supply yet if at all to pop the bubble completely

resinman
 

Resinman

Well-Known Member
in the old CW i predicted back in mid 2005 that the top was in,,,so did many insiders

all this stuff now is in the cards and OLD news my friends,,,the american economy manufactures only fat children

it wont be as painful as one thinks,,,even if we go back to 2002prices it is what is needed
 

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ViRedd

New Member
in the old CW i predicted back in mid 2005 that the top was in,,,so did many insiders

all this stuff now is in the cards and OLD news my friends,,,the american economy manufactures only fat children

it wont be as painful as one thinks,,,even if we go back to 2002prices it is what is needed
Excellent post, Resinman. And, we will be back to 2002 prices sooner than later IMHO.

What did you think of the Fed lowering the rate two days ago? Their in a panic that they went too far with the previous rate increases. The funny part, or not so funny part, depending upon your position, is that they shot the short sellers in the head with that move two days ago. I mean, they just freakin' killed 'em.

Your comment about the American economy manufacturing fat children was priceless. :)

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Excellent post, Resinman. And, we will be back to 2002 prices sooner than later IMHO.

What did you think of the Fed lowering the rate two days ago? Their in a panic that they went too far with the previous rate increases. The funny part, or not so funny part, depending upon your position, is that they shot the short sellers in the head with that move two days ago. I mean, they just freakin' killed 'em.

Your comment about the American economy manufacturing fat children was priceless. :)

Vi
Do you have any Idea how many people will walk on their mortgages if the prices roll back to 2002. won't bother me, but a few people I know will be homeless. It'd have to go back to 1980 prices to affect me.
This will be a bigger crash than the '29' stock market crash, IMHO.
 
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