Stuff that doesn't really fit in either "Examples of" thread....

[printer]

that is akin to the “trolley problem” (do you sacrifice one life to save five?) but without the “either choice kills” wrinkle.

My provisional opinion is that $150 million approaches “real money”, and how the rest plays out hinges on a few undisclosed details, such as the two extreme possibilities that a) the families are quite indifferent or b) one of the street people is the escaped and not compos mentis scion of, say, a royal family.

Dismissing these boundary conditions, I’d say that the large sum is better spent on either humanitarian objective you mentioned at the end. If it were $1.5 million, and the families cared enough to donate or raise a good portion of it, my choice flips.

However I can be convinced otherwise. I have doubtless missed some possibly important considerations.

What if they offered the families a million each, or they could do the search? Would a million bucks salve their wounded souls?

I would consider them lost at sea, now if someone did in Donald and put him in a land fill, then they would spend a billion or ten to find his corpse, the republicans would insist!

Or offer each family $10 million instead of conducting the search. Mind you, what is to stop some estranged family to look at this as a payday and the knock off a member in the future and then demand their $10 million?

 

[printer]

Or how about Two Native women who's bodies were tossed into dumpsters?

Study finds search for women's remains at landfill could take years, cost up to $184M
A search for the remains of two First Nations women at a Winnipeg-area landfill could take up to three years and cost $184 million, says a study examining whether a successful search is possible.

The study, obtained by The Canadian Press, looked at the various scenarios and challenges that come with searching a landfill and concluded a canvass of the Prairie Green Landfill is feasible.

It warns there are "considerable risks" due to exposure to toxic chemicals and asbestos. But it says forgoing a search could be more harmful for the families of Morgan Harris and Marcedes Myran.

"Not conducting the search could cause considerable distress to victim family members," the report says.

"The impact of not conducting a search and humanitarian recovery for remains of Morgan and Marcedes, when it is possible that they are in the Prairie Green Landfill, could have long-lasting repercussions on the families, friends, loved ones and First Nations and Indigenous communities in Manitoba and across Canada."

The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs and representatives from Long Plain First Nation, to which Harris and Myran belonged, are to hold a news conference Friday about the study.

An Indigenous-led committee spearheaded by the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs commissioned the study after Winnipeg police said in December that they believed the remains of Harris and Myran are in the landfill north of the city. But police said they would not be searching the site because of the passage of time and the large volume of material deposited there.

The committee included family members, First Nations leaders, forensic experts and representatives from the province and the city.
The study says it's not guaranteed a search would locate the women's remains.
It could take between one and three years and would cost $84 million to $184 million.

The report says police believe the women's remains were left in a garbage bin three days apart in early May 2022. The contents of the dumpster were sent to the Prairie Green Landfill on May 16.

Jeremy Skibicki has been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of the two women, as well as two others -- Rebecca Contois, whose remains were found at the Brady Landfill, and an identified women Indigenous leaders have named Mashkode Bizhiki'ikwe, or Buffalo Woman. Police have also not found her remains.

The report says governments should consider potential societal costs of conducting a search, including the emotional impact on families.

"Nothing about a potential search of this size and scale is easy, and the toll on the families and First Nations and Indigenous communities must be considered with the appropriate supports being made available," it says.

"Until Marcedes and Morgan are properly returned home, these women, their families and all our communities endure a sacrilege."

Search plans proposed in the report take into consideration family wishes, traditional teachings, hazards and risk, search processes, equipment and personnel requirements, timelines and costs.

The committee referred to studies on other landfill searches and says they are complex, can be extensive and there is no "one-size-fits-all approach."

Some of the biggest concerns outlined in the report were around health and safety. Hazardous materials teams are recommended to be on site at all times to monitor air quality, act as safety officers and perform decontamination of personnel who are in an excavation pit or working closely with excavated materials.

Another concern is the possibility of side-slope failure. The report says excavating along a slope of debris could result in a landslide. The committee says using a conveyor belt to search through debris would be the best option. In order to proceed with a search, Prairie Green would need to submit a proposal to a regulatory body to approve the excavation and transportation of materials.

The report doesn't say who should pay for the search. It was submitted last week to the office of federal Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Marc Miller. Ottawa provided $500,000 to the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs for the study.

Cambria Harris says in the report it feels like she has been living in a "horror movie" since she found out about her mother's killing and the police decision not to search the landfill.

Harris took her rage to Parliament Hill in December and demanded governments take the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls more seriously.

"These women were never respected in life, and they were failed miserably by governments and different levels of systems," she wrote. "In life and death, we still failed them by making decisions not to search for remains known to be there for months."

The study also calls for increased funding for social supports and homeless shelters. It recommends mandatory GPS tracking systems and rear-facing cameras in garbage trucks in Canada, as well as surveillance video installed at entrances and exits at landfills.

Premier Heather Stefanson said she had not seen the report and her heart goes out to the families. "Every time we go through another milestone on this it, it's a reminder on the horrific situation that we're dealing with," she said Friday at an unrelated event. She would not commit to funding any aspects of the search until her office has a chance to go over the report.

Study finds search for women's remains at landfill could take years, cost up to $184M

A search for the remains of two First Nations women at a Winnipeg-area landfill could take up to three years and cost $184 million, says a study examining whether a successful search is possible.

winnipeg.ctvnews.ca

 

[Nugnewbie]

Or how about Two Native women who's bodies were tossed into dumpsters?

Study finds search for women's remains at landfill could take years, cost up to $184M
A search for the remains of two First Nations women at a Winnipeg-area landfill could take up to three years and cost $184 million, says a study examining whether a successful search is possible.

The study, obtained by The Canadian Press, looked at the various scenarios and challenges that come with searching a landfill and concluded a canvass of the Prairie Green Landfill is feasible.

It warns there are "considerable risks" due to exposure to toxic chemicals and asbestos. But it says forgoing a search could be more harmful for the families of Morgan Harris and Marcedes Myran.

"Not conducting the search could cause considerable distress to victim family members," the report says.

"The impact of not conducting a search and humanitarian recovery for remains of Morgan and Marcedes, when it is possible that they are in the Prairie Green Landfill, could have long-lasting repercussions on the families, friends, loved ones and First Nations and Indigenous communities in Manitoba and across Canada."

The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs and representatives from Long Plain First Nation, to which Harris and Myran belonged, are to hold a news conference Friday about the study.

An Indigenous-led committee spearheaded by the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs commissioned the study after Winnipeg police said in December that they believed the remains of Harris and Myran are in the landfill north of the city. But police said they would not be searching the site because of the passage of time and the large volume of material deposited there.

The committee included family members, First Nations leaders, forensic experts and representatives from the province and the city.
The study says it's not guaranteed a search would locate the women's remains.
It could take between one and three years and would cost $84 million to $184 million.

The report says police believe the women's remains were left in a garbage bin three days apart in early May 2022. The contents of the dumpster were sent to the Prairie Green Landfill on May 16.

Jeremy Skibicki has been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of the two women, as well as two others -- Rebecca Contois, whose remains were found at the Brady Landfill, and an identified women Indigenous leaders have named Mashkode Bizhiki'ikwe, or Buffalo Woman. Police have also not found her remains.

The report says governments should consider potential societal costs of conducting a search, including the emotional impact on families.

"Nothing about a potential search of this size and scale is easy, and the toll on the families and First Nations and Indigenous communities must be considered with the appropriate supports being made available," it says.

"Until Marcedes and Morgan are properly returned home, these women, their families and all our communities endure a sacrilege."

Search plans proposed in the report take into consideration family wishes, traditional teachings, hazards and risk, search processes, equipment and personnel requirements, timelines and costs.

The committee referred to studies on other landfill searches and says they are complex, can be extensive and there is no "one-size-fits-all approach."

Some of the biggest concerns outlined in the report were around health and safety. Hazardous materials teams are recommended to be on site at all times to monitor air quality, act as safety officers and perform decontamination of personnel who are in an excavation pit or working closely with excavated materials.

Another concern is the possibility of side-slope failure. The report says excavating along a slope of debris could result in a landslide. The committee says using a conveyor belt to search through debris would be the best option. In order to proceed with a search, Prairie Green would need to submit a proposal to a regulatory body to approve the excavation and transportation of materials.

The report doesn't say who should pay for the search. It was submitted last week to the office of federal Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Marc Miller. Ottawa provided $500,000 to the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs for the study.

Cambria Harris says in the report it feels like she has been living in a "horror movie" since she found out about her mother's killing and the police decision not to search the landfill.

Harris took her rage to Parliament Hill in December and demanded governments take the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls more seriously.

"These women were never respected in life, and they were failed miserably by governments and different levels of systems," she wrote. "In life and death, we still failed them by making decisions not to search for remains known to be there for months."

The study also calls for increased funding for social supports and homeless shelters. It recommends mandatory GPS tracking systems and rear-facing cameras in garbage trucks in Canada, as well as surveillance video installed at entrances and exits at landfills.

Premier Heather Stefanson said she had not seen the report and her heart goes out to the families. "Every time we go through another milestone on this it, it's a reminder on the horrific situation that we're dealing with," she said Friday at an unrelated event. She would not commit to funding any aspects of the search until her office has a chance to go over the report.

Study finds search for women's remains at landfill could take years, cost up to $184M

A search for the remains of two First Nations women at a Winnipeg-area landfill could take up to three years and cost $184 million, says a study examining whether a successful search is possible.

winnipeg.ctvnews.ca

Kind of thought of this when you posed the question. Seems like alot of money, maybe to never find their remains. I would feel the same if they weren't indigenous.

 

[printer]

Kind of thought of this when you posed the question. Seems like alot of money, maybe to never find their remains. I would feel the same if they weren't indigenous.

"The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs held a news conference Friday to discuss the results and share next steps.

Leadership from the assembly, members of Long Plain First Nation and family members of Rebecca Contois, Morgan Harris and Marcedes Myran — three Indigenous women whom Jeremy Skibicki is accused of killing — were in attendance.

The feasibility study warns of "considerable risks" in a search due to exposure to toxic chemicals and asbestos, but that forgoing the search could be more harmful for the families of Harris and Myran.

The remains of Contois were found at the City of Winnipeg's Brady Road landfill in June 2022. Winnipeg police have said they believe Harris and Myran are somewhere within Prairie Green, a private facility in the rural municipality of Rosser.

Marcedes Myran's sister, Jorden, says it breaks her heart to not have a grave to visit and take her sisters' children to.

"It's really hard to tell them that I have nowhere to take them," she said. "Our women don't belong in the landfill, they belong to a grave. They're not trash. It shouldn't be a question whether they're search or not."

"Yes it is a substantial amount of money, but as the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs said, what signal do you send if you don't search for First Nations bodies that have been disposed of as if they are trash, which they are absolutely not."

Morgan Harris' cousin, Melissa Normand, said she believes the study shows a search is possible, and hopes the federal, provincial and municipal governments will support it.

"I'm confident that they will because of exactly what we have all said, which is ... what is that saying to the rest of the world? Right? We're not trash, you know."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/landfill-feasibility-study-results-manitoba-1.6840411

It would be a lot of money for any citizen of Canada but being Native they can play the guilt card and if a search is not performed they can blame Canada.

 

[doughper]

sinema is for sinema

In that article she says:

“Now that you’re an independent, you’ll never become a Republican?” host Margaret Brennan asked.
“No,” Sinema said, adding: “You don’t go from one broken party to another.”

What a worm, a weasel, defame the one half-good party by naming it as the same as the really "broken party", the GOP.
The magats do that every time you corner them on how bad their party/candidate is, then they say it's "all politicians/parties are bad."
Such a dispicable and low-life pander to already dissatisfied voters. How in the hell the USA ever held on to any form of democracy is beyond me.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

A 'what if' question. If a serial killer disposed of the bodies of two street people into the ocean and the cost of a recovery, which would not be guaranteed, would be $150 million. Would it be worth doing for the peace of mind for the families or would it be better to spend the money on the living (money going to the homeless) or send it to Ukraine?

If they already knew the guy killed them, why would they bother to try to recover the corpses? so the families could have closed casket funerals to hide that the fish ate their lips and eyes? The only reason i could see to try to recover corpses from the ocean was if you needed them for proof to convict your serial killer.
If the corpses aren't needed for proof, and the families want them, then they can recover them.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Or how about Two Native women who's bodies were tossed into dumpsters?

Study finds search for women's remains at landfill could take years, cost up to $184M
A search for the remains of two First Nations women at a Winnipeg-area landfill could take up to three years and cost $184 million, says a study examining whether a successful search is possible.

The study, obtained by The Canadian Press, looked at the various scenarios and challenges that come with searching a landfill and concluded a canvass of the Prairie Green Landfill is feasible.

It warns there are "considerable risks" due to exposure to toxic chemicals and asbestos. But it says forgoing a search could be more harmful for the families of Morgan Harris and Marcedes Myran.

"Not conducting the search could cause considerable distress to victim family members," the report says.

"The impact of not conducting a search and humanitarian recovery for remains of Morgan and Marcedes, when it is possible that they are in the Prairie Green Landfill, could have long-lasting repercussions on the families, friends, loved ones and First Nations and Indigenous communities in Manitoba and across Canada."

The Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs and representatives from Long Plain First Nation, to which Harris and Myran belonged, are to hold a news conference Friday about the study.

An Indigenous-led committee spearheaded by the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs commissioned the study after Winnipeg police said in December that they believed the remains of Harris and Myran are in the landfill north of the city. But police said they would not be searching the site because of the passage of time and the large volume of material deposited there.

The committee included family members, First Nations leaders, forensic experts and representatives from the province and the city.
The study says it's not guaranteed a search would locate the women's remains.
It could take between one and three years and would cost $84 million to $184 million.

The report says police believe the women's remains were left in a garbage bin three days apart in early May 2022. The contents of the dumpster were sent to the Prairie Green Landfill on May 16.

Jeremy Skibicki has been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of the two women, as well as two others -- Rebecca Contois, whose remains were found at the Brady Landfill, and an identified women Indigenous leaders have named Mashkode Bizhiki'ikwe, or Buffalo Woman. Police have also not found her remains.

The report says governments should consider potential societal costs of conducting a search, including the emotional impact on families.

"Nothing about a potential search of this size and scale is easy, and the toll on the families and First Nations and Indigenous communities must be considered with the appropriate supports being made available," it says.

"Until Marcedes and Morgan are properly returned home, these women, their families and all our communities endure a sacrilege."

Search plans proposed in the report take into consideration family wishes, traditional teachings, hazards and risk, search processes, equipment and personnel requirements, timelines and costs.

The committee referred to studies on other landfill searches and says they are complex, can be extensive and there is no "one-size-fits-all approach."

Some of the biggest concerns outlined in the report were around health and safety. Hazardous materials teams are recommended to be on site at all times to monitor air quality, act as safety officers and perform decontamination of personnel who are in an excavation pit or working closely with excavated materials.

Another concern is the possibility of side-slope failure. The report says excavating along a slope of debris could result in a landslide. The committee says using a conveyor belt to search through debris would be the best option. In order to proceed with a search, Prairie Green would need to submit a proposal to a regulatory body to approve the excavation and transportation of materials.

The report doesn't say who should pay for the search. It was submitted last week to the office of federal Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Marc Miller. Ottawa provided $500,000 to the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs for the study.

Cambria Harris says in the report it feels like she has been living in a "horror movie" since she found out about her mother's killing and the police decision not to search the landfill.

Harris took her rage to Parliament Hill in December and demanded governments take the issue of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls more seriously.

"These women were never respected in life, and they were failed miserably by governments and different levels of systems," she wrote. "In life and death, we still failed them by making decisions not to search for remains known to be there for months."

The study also calls for increased funding for social supports and homeless shelters. It recommends mandatory GPS tracking systems and rear-facing cameras in garbage trucks in Canada, as well as surveillance video installed at entrances and exits at landfills.

Premier Heather Stefanson said she had not seen the report and her heart goes out to the families. "Every time we go through another milestone on this it, it's a reminder on the horrific situation that we're dealing with," she said Friday at an unrelated event. She would not commit to funding any aspects of the search until her office has a chance to go over the report.

Study finds search for women's remains at landfill could take years, cost up to $184M

A search for the remains of two First Nations women at a Winnipeg-area landfill could take up to three years and cost $184 million, says a study examining whether a successful search is possible.

winnipeg.ctvnews.ca

They should mark off the area the remains are most likely in, and allow the families to look for them their selves. Their ethnic heritage has nothing to do with it, i would make the same suggestion if they were white, asian, latin...They're dead, their bodies aren't needed for proof in court, and 184 million could do a lot to help prevent the same kind of thing happening again....Or, it could be used to assuage the feelings of a few family members, and screw all those living women it could help.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

It would be a lot of money for any citizen of Canada but being Native they can play the guilt card and if a search is not performed they can blame Canada.

I didn't want to say it, but...

 

[Bagginski]

I’m gonna put this here because culture war does not have a dedicated thread.

Even Hell’s Kitchen? | National Review

There’s a new report out about the hit Bud Light is taking over its recent marketing campaign.

www.nationalreview.com

This got pushed my way. I wondered how Bud light and culture war collided. A bit of searching found that they worked with a transgender web-celeb. Pearl-clutching ensued.

The Bud Light boycott?? because sure, explained

Bud Light sent a handful of beers to a trans influencer, and all hell broke loose.

www.vox.com

Lol at the National Review for turning a few anecdotes into a nonexistent trend.

But it shows up how the editorial content in right-leaning media is consistently skewed to the point of dishonesty. I see no parallel phenomenon in the left-leaning media.

Bill Buckley is spinning in his grave….

Then again, NR provided cover for ex-editor Jonah Goldberg’s fairy tail about “national socialism” as ACTUAL SOCIALISM (“Liberal Fascism”)…and it was another now-ex editor who reported a tingle up his leg while watching Sarah Palin give a speech.

Regarding the slants, I quite agree: people outside the puppet show tend to remain engaged w/ the world as it more-or-less is, because keeping one’s bearing is important (where those inside the puppet show tend to rely on the puppet show for their sense of direction); an odd side-effect is that ‘we’ are only just now really beginning to grapple with unfiltered extremist speech: the language of ‘conservative’ extremism was so ingrained in the thought of the 50s/60s that we didn’t see the veneer on the bullshit, and the national conversation became skewed with a pro-‘conservative’, anti-‘communist’ POV.

This inclination/distortion continues to this day, when we are STILL learning & complaining about GOOP voices dominating the Sunday talk shows. Statements that send fascist messages don’t *sound* fascist to the common ear; statements that send centrist messages don’t *sound* centrist, they *sound* liberal, due to the continuing decades of fake-conservative dominance in that national conversation. Predictably, statements that send liberal messages tend to sound extreme because we’ve been carefully taught (by “The Right”(tm)) to EXPECT extremism from “The Left”(tm), and we’re still shaking free of those blinders.

And, yes, this does mean we’re currently tiptoeing thru the garden of waking up to what’s actually going on around us. I would say don’t disturb those trying to sleep, except…it’s time to wake up

 

[Bagginski]

View attachment 5281057

View attachment 5281059

Fresh pair of goggles with every 6?

 

[cannabineer]

Fresh pair of goggles with every 6?

there are some things even “flat of malt likker” goggles cannot sell.

 

[CunningCanuk]

It would be a lot of money for any citizen of Canada but being Native they can play the guilt card and if a search is not performed they can blame Canada.

Damn victims, always playing the victim card.

If authorities performed proper investigations when indigenous people are first reported missing, maybe it wouldn’t be as expensive to locate the bodies. Historically, missing “natives” haven’t been much of a concern for many criminal investigators.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Damn victims, always playing the victim card.

If authorities performed proper investigations when indigenous people are first reported missing, maybe it wouldn’t be as expensive to locate the bodies. Historically, missing “natives” haven’t been much of a concern for many criminal investigators.

The question remains, would it be better to spend such an enormous amount of money on the living rather than on finding any corpse. What about people lost at sea? Perhaps it might be better to spend the cash on making sure it does not happen again, an investment in the living, rather than blowing a fortune on a guilt trip.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

The republicans will try to wipe out history and will pass a law against it! The, we are ashamed of our past bill, will protect future generations from the truth.

Let's talk about Facebook echoing in eternity....

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Damn victims, always playing the victim card.

If authorities performed proper investigations when indigenous people are first reported missing, maybe it wouldn’t be as expensive to locate the bodies. Historically, missing “natives” haven’t been much of a concern for many criminal investigators.

First nation people should get the same respect everyone else gets, and the same attention should be paid to them if they go missing.
I have lived near reservations my whole life, and have known several native Americans personally. They're people, just like anyone else.
Some of them are serious people with a life plan and goal they're trying to meet, and some are useless pieces of shit, just like any other ethnic grouping.
Some of them can and do abuse the race card, making everything about that single issue, whether it has anything to do with the situation or not.
They're usually pretty vocal. It makes people discount what they're saying.
They do have legitimate grievances, they should be treated fairly, and they do deserve some kind of apology, at the very least, for the behavior they have been subjected to. They would do well to pick a spokesperson for these incidents, and have that one person make well thought out, reasoned, legally viable statements and suggestions, ask pertinent questions in a way that they cannot be avoided or ignored.

 

[printer]

Damn victims, always playing the victim card.

If authorities performed proper investigations when indigenous people are first reported missing, maybe it wouldn’t be as expensive to locate the bodies. Historically, missing “natives” haven’t been much of a concern for many criminal investigators.

The problem with doing a proper investigation in cases like this is the families do not even know they are missing and by the time they do there is little to go on to find them. That is the reason these scumbags target those that would be missed the least.

 

[CunningCanuk]

The problem with doing a proper investigation in cases like this is the families do not even know they are missing and by the time they do there is little to go on to find them. That is the reason these scumbags target those that would be missed the least.

They are targeted because it’s a well known fact that indigenous people are marginalized by most police forces. Little to no effort is ever given to solve the murders of these victims.

What are you going to tell me next, systemic racism doesn’t exist?

 

[CunningCanuk]

First nation people should get the same respect everyone else gets, and the same attention should be paid to them if they go missing.

Right, but that’s not the case, is it? This is the point I was making in my earlier post.

 

[doughper]

I did, twice this last year, and I took them.

Sheeit man, were they sterling??

 

[cannabineer]

Sheeit man, were they sterling??

nah, Walmart stuff