STRAINLY

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
One thing about observation is that sometimes it can be grower or environment related as opposed to HPLvD. I have had teens bunched in a tent once with a low level T-5 light and some of the lower branches were going more out then up, trying to find light, with three finger leaves (some of which overlapped) and the stems were weak (didn't have any air movement in there)
Sent a few sample in for testing to make sure none of the teens were dudded and all came back negative. They are now in another persons indoor garden blowing up and stacking.

The test does not 100% clear the plant from any HPLvD. Multiple tests are definitely needed. I mean I am testing some decent sized mothers most of the time so just 3 leaves may not pick out the virus.

I will be honest. I do not deal with many strainly vendors at all anymore even being one myself. I do not see many mentioning testing cuts in their methods and the way this thing transfers is like a game of hot potato for most. I mean this is a virus that people should be weeding out. It is mechanically transferred which means by human error. It is not some bug, it does not live in the soil or the water. It is in a plant and transferred to another through mainly human hands although there are some instances where bunching and rubbing may transfer. Knowing the source of the clones may help but that only can go so far. If Darkheart is point A then even with their history I trust point A. If someone without testing in their garden is point b then I am skeptical as hell. I will say this. I did grab cuts from MadScientist (MAC, Sundae Driver (Black sheep farm cut), Cherry pie, and Ice cream cake) not one of those tested out positive and the Apple Fritter from Mainely who has been probably tested the most next to the Ice Cream cake, has come back negative every time. But then you go and look at Mainely's page and all of a sudden you see at some point he even got the virus. The Fritter sticks around because its verified but from now on we only take in cuts from distributors that are leading the forefront in testing. Node labs, Darkheart nursery, Purple city genetics..... And even those we will test out still just to ensure that any coming in may not have been missed but those three companies run vigorous testing. Makes our testing look petty. But the goal is to isolate it out and garbage anything with it. If everyone had access to well priced solid genetics I feel like they would be more than willing to get testing done and part with the crap that has it. Then start fresh with less opportunity of bringing it in.

One side note. Its rate in seed form has also increased. I believe it is still below 10% but that is enough to say that seeds can be a carrier as well. So people popping seeds of genetics that may be known for it may want to run some testing as well.

Everyone should be reading DarkHearts white paper and their 3 part series about HPLvD. Great informative stuff in there. One thing I found reassuring is that the virus itself needs a living host to actually live. Its RNA sequencing basically only lasts about 2 hours in inanimate vectors. This means it is most likely not in your water supply, It is not in previous seasons soil, the transfer from pests is a low rate, it is not some sort of having to scrub down an entire room with bleach type issue.

Clone distributors need to be more part of the solution than the problem. We all love this plant and want to see it thrive to the best of its ability.
Dark Heart knows a lot about HPLvD, because I swear they have spread that virus around more than anyone else. I personally think they still have it in their nursery, and won't buy anymore of their clones. Purple City Genetics on the other hand seems to have the dudding issue under control in their clone stock. I know they test mothers something like 5 times, so assume they are doing it in-house. Might be worth reaching out to them to see what their process is.
 

Dividedsky

Well-Known Member
Facts, I'm learning my lesson the hard way right now. I'm pretty much positive that one of my plants had TMV, its spread to two other plants in my flower tent and I may have to cut the entire crop down. I was also going to make some seeds but I don't trust breeding with anything in that tent.
Thing is I'm not all about grabbing expensive tissue culture. The process of creating tissue culture sterilizes and cleans out a lot of what make a strains great so in a way changes the strain from what I've read.
Dark Heart knows a lot about HPLvD, because I swear they have spread that virus around more than anyone else. I personally think they still have it in their nursery, and won't buy anymore of their clones. Purple City Genetics on the other hand seems to have the dudding issue under control in their clone stock. I know they test mothers something like 5 times, so assume they are doing it in-house. Might be worth reaching out to them to see what their process is.
I agree it makes sense that dark heat could have actually been the culprit of where this all came from. Several people have mentioned that. Now they're making money off of doing these tests. Each sample cost $35 to send in a fan leaf, that's a bit ridiculous
 

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Thing is I'm not all about grabbing expensive tissue culture. The process of creating tissue culture sterilizes and cleans out a lot of what make a strains great so in a way changes the strain from what I've read.
I haven't heard that yet, but haven't really followed too closely either. My understanding however was that tissue culture basically restored the original genetics. I'm not sure how genetic mutations are dealt with during that process, but I assume that mutations are basically irreversible, and that those mutations are what is ultimately responsible for "a lot of what make a strains great" as you describe. I am interested to hear theories however.
 

Auntie Janes Nursery

Well-Known Member
Agree. Thats why I observe for several cycles.

^this is a good analogy^


I've read this as well. And I'll admit, I'd thought of reversing a couple of my plants that tested positive so I could try to salvage the line but decided against it. They're just polys and its not worth the risk
I mean if you know your garden then it is much easier to identify, definitely an experienced grower like yourself. Especially with strains you have previously grown out.

The virus honestly scares me as a distributor. Not even as much for my own garden. The tests are investing in peace of mind.
Thats statement he put out says it all, they closed up shop because of it. I'd say get all cuts tested yourself for (HpLVd). It's just not worth the risk of a ruined grow that could set you back 10s of thousands. This seems to be a lot bigger of a problem than people are aware. You pretty much should be surgical about dealing with cuts if your not getting them tested. Bottle of rubbing alcohol next to you at all times when in grow room and constantly be cleaning fiskar snips between pruning and taking cuts and have a bunch of extras snips.

Tissue culture and testing will be the way of the future.

Also another great way to not get this, is the old fashion way> run seeds and phenohunt.
More like a bottle of 10%+ bleach. Alcohol doesn't kill the RNA off. Bleach will though. Whenever I am working on cloning I keep a cup of about 20% bleach near me which I dunk my pruners in in between each plant. Then I wash my hands with antibacterial soap (sing the bday song twice) then wipe down the handles of my pruners with some bleach, then rinse, then wipe down with 90% isopropyl just in case any bacteria in the rinse etc but by then there will be no virus load on my pruners.
 

Auntie Janes Nursery

Well-Known Member
I haven't heard that yet, but haven't really followed too closely either. My understanding however was that tissue culture basically restored the original genetics. I'm not sure how genetic mutations are dealt with during that process, but I assume that mutations are basically irreversible, and that those mutations are what is ultimately responsible for "a lot of what make a strains great" as you describe. I am interested to hear theories however.
TC is basically cleaning the plant from the inside out. That is why you soak it in a disinfectant solution. I also feel like since you are starting from a less established culture like we do when we clone regularly, it has a greater chance of reforming to its original structure as opposed to how you clipped it. Also when it comes to meristem cultures and trying to culture out diseases like HPLvD, the key is to try and get the newest growth which has the least chance of being infected already or the lowest virus load. That is my basic knowledge of it. Haven't attempted it yet but have thought about it. Especially with the limit on plants in veg.
 

colocowboy

Well-Known Member
I haven't heard that yet, but haven't really followed too closely either. My understanding however was that tissue culture basically restored the original genetics. I'm not sure how genetic mutations are dealt with during that process, but I assume that mutations are basically irreversible, and that those mutations are what is ultimately responsible for "a lot of what make a strains great" as you describe. I am interested to hear theories however.
When tissue cultured the plant tissue is cleaned, but that includes the micro-organisms. There are beneficial bacteria that influence the characteristics of a plant and it’s possible, though not certain, to change the presented character by adopting different species of bacteria. There are proprietary cheese caves that are maintained over thousands of years to preserve this phenomenon in cheese.
 

Scrogs314

Member
Chances are no one here as gotten those exact cuts from that exact vendor especially seeing as the the Gary and cheetah are new kids on the block in terms of hype cuts. You should just be checking if vendor is legit more than anything. I think some people have used PNW, cruise through the thread and use search bar, I'm sure you find some info.
I guess my hope was I've seen these clones for a couple months now and it shouldn't take that long to grow a mom and take clippings. Even if they are paying $2,000 for their clone, selling just 4 clippings for $500 pays them back. Then they have a literal money tree lol Thanks for the reply.
 

Auntie Janes Nursery

Well-Known Member
Dark Heart knows a lot about HPLvD, because I swear they have spread that virus around more than anyone else. I personally think they still have it in their nursery, and won't buy anymore of their clones. Purple City Genetics on the other hand seems to have the dudding issue under control in their clone stock. I know they test mothers something like 5 times, so assume they are doing it in-house. Might be worth reaching out to them to see what their process is.
The thing about DarkHeart and the spreading of HPLvD was at the time no one had a clue what it was and of course one of the largest clone distributors in Cali is going to be distributing it like hot cakes. Especailly when it is in the popular strain at the time (GG4). I blame them yes for spreading it but at the time there was little information on it. The fact that they put in the resourcing with the University and have isolated out the root cause and also have come up with the main testing for the virus is at least some reassurance that they took responsibility and addressed the issue. I mean it is not like they created the virus itself. Theoretically it was someone crossing over in to the hemp industry that brought the virus over to the cannabis side. Hard to find patient zero now though.
Regardless though, I have talked with a lot of the people at UC Davis who run the darkheart program for testing and they do their own rigorous testing even more so than what PCG disclosed on their IG post. I have tested out DHN Venom OG, GG4, Skywalker OG, and all have come back negative. The fact that they both are running such a rigorous program to weed out HPLvD is very reassuring.

Also the HPLvD testing is $25 a piece for three leaves of the same plant to be tested.
 

Diesel0889

Well-Known Member
Was thinking of tissue culture myself. I posted a while back on keeping moms that way but not much was said. How long can you keep somthing suspended in the solution for? Before having to "reset" or transplant out etc. Very interested in it. Cleaning genetics (while I keep original mom) or keeping mom's like that period.

Not sure on timetable of it all I guess. Some company "back up genetics" etc. How often do you start the process over again. More of hassle for small grower? Or a way to cram mom's together? Excuse me as I have read into it but im def stoned this am and need some guidance lol
 

Bodyne

Well-Known Member
The thing about DarkHeart and the spreading of HPLvD was at the time no one had a clue what it was and of course one of the largest clone distributors in Cali is going to be distributing it like hot cakes. Especailly when it is in the popular strain at the time (GG4). I blame them yes for spreading it but at the time there was little information on it. The fact that they put in the resourcing with the University and have isolated out the root cause and also have come up with the main testing for the virus is at least some reassurance that they took responsibility and addressed the issue. I mean it is not like they created the virus itself. Theoretically it was someone crossing over in to the hemp industry that brought the virus over to the cannabis side. Hard to find patient zero now though.
Regardless though, I have talked with a lot of the people at UC Davis who run the darkheart program for testing and they do their own rigorous testing even more so than what PCG disclosed on their IG post. I have tested out DHN Venom OG, GG4, Skywalker OG, and all have come back negative. The fact that they both are running such a rigorous program to weed out HPLvD is very reassuring.

Also the HPLvD testing is $25 a piece for three leaves of the same plant to be tested.
Boy that venom cut would be nice........!
 

Bodyne

Well-Known Member
When tissue cultured the plant tissue is cleaned, but that includes the micro-organisms. There are beneficial bacteria that influence the characteristics of a plant and it’s possible, though not certain, to change the presented character by adopting different species of bacteria. There are proprietary cheese caves that are maintained over thousands of years to preserve this phenomenon in cheese.
Like the phinest chem d seems like a chem, but not THE chem d
 

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
Thats statement he put out says it all, they closed up shop because of it. I'd say get all cuts tested yourself for (HpLVd). It's just not worth the risk of a ruined grow that could set you back 10s of thousands. This seems to be a lot bigger of a problem than people are aware. You pretty much should be surgical about dealing with cuts if your not getting them tested. Bottle of rubbing alcohol next to you at all times when in grow room and constantly be cleaning fiskar snips between pruning and taking cuts and have a bunch of extras snips.

Tissue culture and testing will be the way of the future.

Also another great way to not get this, is the old fashion way> run seeds and phenohunt.
Yep, as I mentioned before in this thread, my buddy who works for a professional nursery said they're using an electrolysis machine to make ultra low and high pH water to dip the tools in. You use one pair of snips while the other is soaking in the 2.0 pH water and keep alternating. I never even bothered to ask the name of the nursery he works for, could be Dark Heart for all I know, I'll find out.

Unfortunately seeds can get hop latent viroid too, but as of now they're a much safer bet (than clones). I would assume seeds can be tested, I'm gonna look into it.

Tissue culture requires a sterile area, similar to mushroom cultivation. I'm not sure if you can get away with using an enclosed glove box like some people do, you might need a completely sterile room, or at the very least a clean workbench area with laminar flow hood and some sterile shelving units to keep your cultures in.
 
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Budderton

Well-Known Member
Thats statement he put out says it all, they closed up shop because of it. I'd say get all cuts tested yourself for (HpLVd). It's just not worth the risk of a ruined grow that could set you back 10s of thousands. This seems to be a lot bigger of a problem than people are aware. You pretty much should be surgical about dealing with cuts if your not getting them tested. Bottle of rubbing alcohol next to you at all times when in grow room and constantly be cleaning fiskar snips between pruning and taking cuts and have a bunch of extras snips.

Tissue culture and testing will be the way of the future.

Also another great way to not get this, is the old fashion way> run seeds and phenohunt.
I haven't taken in a strange cut since 08 but I pop alot of beans and now there are studies reporting 8-10% transmission rate in seeds made from an infected female. FFS. Things might get worse before they get better...
 

oswizzle

Well-Known Member
Progressive Options in LA is where I first got the Dudding Virus ... way b4 GG4 hit the Scene .... All these Clone companies were getting their cuts from P.O..... at one point they had the best real cuts of everything.... they also spread Broad Mites to the community b4 HPLvD ...Their Tahoe OG is the only cut Id take in if it was the real deal...no other cut to this point to me is worth dealing with this shit... test all you want.... it still finds a way to pop up on a branch hear and there... Seeds are the best option for clean stock... Ive seen it transmit to seed also... it was very rare and easy to spot from early Veg... I never re-use anything I take cuts with.... New Scissors, New Trays, New Domes... not going to penny pinch and bleach everything ....

For the record I havent had any issues in years.... after it took years to correct and losing all my real Elite Clones and Seed Genetics .... its a nightmare when u catch it
 

SuperNice

Active Member
Is there anyway to post docx documents in the forums. Trying to post our test results because apparently someone wants to accuse us of giving out HPLvD and me saying we have test results that clearly state negative is not good enough.

Nevermind, here is a screenshot. This is an older test we ran so most of the strains we tested out are not in our garden anymore. If you follow the acronyms there is Apple Fritter (AF) Sundae Driver 19 (SD19), Sundae Driver (SD) (blacksheep farm cut), Cherry Pie (CP), Runtz (Ru).... Have plenty more of these documents with just about all of our strains that have been on the menu since about January. I hate to hear someone not happy but it is hard to argue when we have this right in front of us.
Is that c91 what I think it is, and do you still have it?
 

Oliver Pantsoff

Well-Known Member
Testing means nothing cuz it still pops up here n there. Like I've said in a previous post, there's strainly members selling cuts with hplvd and don't even know it. If a seller is dealing with clones from DHN, other vendors, etc best believe they'll get it or they got it. It'll go unnoticed to the untrained eye...

OP
 

Auntie Janes Nursery

Well-Known Member
Testing means nothing cuz it still pops up here n there. Like I've said in a previous post, there's strainly members selling cuts with hplvd and don't even know it. If a seller is dealing with clones from DHN, other vendors, etc best believe they'll get it or they got it. It'll go unnoticed to the untrained eye...

OP
Testing is about all you can do in reality to isolate what the cause is. I mean DHN is at the forefront of the research and also with the cleanup. If there is anyone I trust in this it is them. They go extensive with testing mother stock and doing TC. There is no eye trained enough to go beyond what testing would prove. I can understand it is missed in one or two tests but at a certain point it is full viral load throughout the plant. There were incidences where they cleaned out a garden and it popped up again without introducing new plants but it was found that it was spread by dried flower from a previous crop that had been contaminated and then spread by hands. Purple city genetics is not innocent in this either. They had it as well in some of their OGs. But they have acquired a similar testing regime to isolate out infected plants before creating mother stock. Not sure what your basis for it popping up here and there after being tested. Any examples of this?
 
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