Still unsure as to what is going on, need veteran help PLEASE

keep it real.

Well-Known Member
(change speed to 1.25)
4.9… I actually went to clients house a few months back(I travel fixing indoor grows)and he had happy frog with a ph of 4.9.. I brought some lime with me and got it up to 6.6 here are some pics next morning, 3 days, 2 weeks after. This was is first time growing… luckily they were photos and not autos.. autos don’t give you much time to fix a problem.. 70665589309__3CF27666-1317-4A9C-A8A8-B475A2BA7A1E.jpegIMG_1790.pngIMG_8310.jpeg
 

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
would this work for a ph buffer? To raise it? It was all I could find locally and seemed okay but it has nutrients in it apparently.
I'm gonna wait to apply either way, the tips of the new foliage are burning back but don't appear to be spotting.
slightly yellow-orangish color (between 5.0 which is completely orange and 6.0 which is a yellow) i think you may be right in that the soil is acidic.
This whole thread there's no mention of your input pH, what is it?
Or your pot's volume, what is it?
How frequently is it getting watered and how much at a time?

I don't personally believe you need lime, if you're going by your waste or runoff. You can expect the output pH to be slightly lower than your input, in a peat based potting mix.
Maybe raise input pH slightly? I would personally keep it under 6.5
About 6 is ideal imo.

If you're really concerned, I recommend testing the pH properly.
And it's difficult to do so, because you can't easily take a good soil sample. It needs to be taken from several inches down, then tested. By making a slurry and determining it's pH value, via use of soil test kit or pH pen.
I recommend the kit.
They're cheap, affordable and arguably more accurate. And you sight the sample to a colour chart all the same.

As I suggested, I think your potting mix is holding a lot of water and you're watering too often.
You need to dry it out some.
I'm not suggesting you dry it back until there's droop, that's too far.
But there shouldn't be obvious dampness like in your 1st photo, and the pot should feel a lot lighter.

Important to remember, chronic overwatering and overwatering in general, can actually lower the pH.
Especially when there's a lot of sulphur, like in peatmoss based mixes.
Stagnant water + sulphur is a big no, no.

I think you need to bite the bullet and just wait until the pot dries, because it seems like you're chasing your tail.
Then decide where to go - water, or nutrient.
I'd go plain water, with good runoff, about 10%. And unless the water's pH is really high, don't mess with it. Honestly, plain water is fine.
Then dry pot again,
And commence nutrient, adjust pH and Ec as usual, with good runoff 10%+.
Dry pot again.
Apply nutrient at your own whim. But remember, you didn't add aeration, so your water holding capacity's probably a bit higher than desired. So it'd be safer to start off light, rather than heavy, to avoid build-up.

Must also say your 2nd photo looks a bit suss. I'm not certain what it is, but it doesn't look like any deficiency I'm familiar with.
And if you're finding the plant's dropping a lot of leaves, again it's probably from damp soil, not a deficiency.

Everything to me is pointing to lack of aeration / damp soil.
If you can give us an idea of pot volume, watering frequency and how much at a time, it'll be a good indication.
 
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BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
And my suggestion is to also wait until the soil dries, before taking a soil sample to test pH, as it's required to test properly.
pH pen, you'll need to make slurry using dry soil + distilled water.
Test kit, you use dry soil + supplied liquid solution to make slurry.

Before you can do, or determine anything, the soil needs to dry.

Just take a deep breath and relax.
 

keep it real.

Well-Known Member
This whole thread there's no mention of your input pH, what is it?
Or your pot's volume, what is it?
How frequently is it getting watered and how much at a time?

I don't personally believe you need lime, if you're going by your waste or runoff. You can expect the output pH to be slightly lower than your input, in a peat based potting mix.
Maybe raise input pH slightly? I would personally keep it under 6.5
About 6 is ideal imo.

If you're really concerned, I recommend testing the pH properly.
And it's difficult to do so, because you can't easily take a good soil sample. It needs to be taken from several inches down, then tested. By making a slurry and determining it's pH value, via use of soil test kit or pH pen.
I recommend the kit.
They're cheap, affordable and arguably more accurate. And you sight the sample to a colour chart all the same.

As I suggested, I think your potting mix is holding a lot of water and you're watering too often.
You need to dry it out some.
I'm not suggesting you dry it back until there's droop, that's too far.
But there shouldn't be obvious dampness like in your 1st photo, and the pot should feel a lot lighter.

Important to remember, chronic overwatering and overwatering in general, can actually lower the pH.
Especially when there's a lot of sulphur, like in peatmoss based mixes.
Stagnant water + sulphur is a big no, no.

I think you need to bite the bullet and just wait until the pot dries, because it seems like you're chasing your tail.
Then decide where to go - water, or nutrient.
I'd go plain water, with good runoff, about 10%. And unless the water's pH is really high, don't mess with it. Honestly, plain water is fine.
Then dry pot again,
And commence nutrient, adjust pH and Ec as usual, with good runoff 10%+.
Dry pot again.
Apply nutrient at your own whim. But remember, you didn't add aeration, so your water holding capacity's probably a bit higher than desired. So it'd be safer to start off light, rather than heavy, to avoid build-up.

Must also say your 2nd photo looks a bit suss. I'm not certain what it is, but it doesn't look like any deficiency I'm familiar with.
And if you're finding the plant's dropping a lot of leaves, again it's probably from damp soil, not a deficiency.

Everything to me is pointing to lack of aeration / damp soil.
If you can give us an idea of pot volume, watering frequency and how much at a time, it'll be a good indication.
I agree, I feel like iv asked some questions that have been danced around.

I do have question just for my understanding, you feel 6.0 is ideal for a soil medium? Iv never heard so low unless coco. What are your thoughts behind it?
 

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
I agree, I feel like iv asked some questions that have been danced around.

I do have question just for my understanding, you feel 6.0 is ideal for a soil medium? Iv never heard so low unless coco. What are your thoughts behind it?
If supplementing nutrient, I always stick to the pH range the manufacturer recommends. I think it's important.
And I don't ever bother to pH plain water using soil.
Only pH plain water growing hydro.

Organics I'd be happy around 6.5 even close to 7.
6 is a tad low and anything lower than 6 is asking for rot and lockout imo.
Because of it's high water holding capacity and organic matter in general.

Really, at the end of the day, I believe it's up to how you intend to grow.
I think in OP's case, it's going to be difficult not to overfeed, because of the high water holding capacity.
Higher risk of chronic overwatering too.

Sorry for the edit. It's a good question.
My own take on it, is it depends on your own application, organics or hydro?
Organics, besides good aeration, you want a higher water holding capacity. For the soil's own health and microbes. Promotes the right environment.
Hydro, it's all aeration. Aeration all day.
 
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zoomer428

Member
@keep it real.
I replied to someone I can't remember who that I ran a few gals of PH water through at the same time I did the run off ph. It was 6.5, or close to. 5 gal bucket. I'm letting it go now obviously, I usually let the pot dry pretty good before watering again which I now realize isn't optimal. Talking like, one gallon of water once a week, Temps are varying between mid 70s and upper 80s though I do have the ac on so the variance isn't that great.

@BongerChonger
 

zoomer428

Member
With FFOF you get about three weeks with the soil before it needs nutes. I’m guessing the black gold is about the same.
I actually think the black gold is much less hot but I could be wrong. I did look at the ratios but I can't remember at this moment. I did feed pretty heavy the last time, seeing as I put several gallons of Ph'd water through her. Plus cal mag before that.
 

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
@keep it real.
I'm letting it go now obviously, I usually let the pot dry pretty good before watering again which I now realize isn't optimal. Talking like, one gallon of water once a week,
@BongerChonger
Well too late for that haha. I fed this morning. She seems okay for now but these spots are still developing. Just gonna let er go for awhile now and hope for the best. Big sad if it ends unwell.
Once a week? Yeah man, that sounds a bit heavy. Water holding capacity sounds high.
It's optimal to let the soil dry, but not so far the plant droops.
Then it's important to get some runoff each time you water. (yes, organics too)
It helps rid the soil of silts and excess dissolved solids. Soil structure's important. For both the plant and soil environment.
You want some runoff, period. Don't care what anyone says.
If you're worried about leaching out nutrient in the runoff, then supplement some.
If you're worried about losing microbes, then be rest assured, microbes double in numbers every half hour or so. A little waste is insignificant.
Environment's everything.

And you absolutely want runoff using soluble nutrients, no way around it.
Especially with heavy soil / potting mix.
 

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
@keep it real.
I replied to someone I can't remember who that I ran a few gals of PH water through at the same time I did the run off ph. It was 6.5, or close to. 5 gal bucket. I'm letting it go now obviously, I usually let the pot dry pretty good before watering again which I now realize isn't optimal. Talking like, one gallon of water once a week, Temps are varying between mid 70s and upper 80s though I do have the ac on so the variance isn't that great.

@BongerChonger
Watch what the plant does over the next week, before watering again.
Look for any droopiness, or deficiencies/lockouts/burn getting any worse. Especially first day or two after water.
Not lying, I think it'll be tough keeping this grow tip top, because of your potting mix. Seems a bit heavy and long to dry.
Bit of a rock and hard place.
Difficult to get the water/feed/water/feed, plus frequency just right.
Plus more risk of salt-build up using nutrients, much easier to do.

Next-time, I wouldn't even hesitate putting 30% perlite or so, to any potting mix you buy.
You could even go a bit higher.
Just depends on how you want to grow.

Good luck and hope things turn around soon.
 
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zoomer428

Member
Watch what the plant does over the next week, before watering again.
Look for any droopiness, or deficiencies/lockouts/burn getting any worse. Especially first day or two after water.
Not lying, I think it'll be tough keeping this grow tip top, because of your potting mix. Seems a bit heavy and long to dry.
Bit of a rock and hard place.
Difficult to get the water/feed/water/feed, plus frequency just right.
Plus more risk of salt-build up using nutrients, much easier to do.

Next-time, I wouldn't even hesitate putting 30% perlite or so, to any potting mix you buy.
You could even go a bit higher.
Just depends on how you want to grow.

Good luck and hope things turn around soon.
I'll be watching and updating for sure ill tag you guys. Next time I'm gonna go coco coir I think. Or maybe hydro. I know its a bit harder but I'm pretty technically proficient and not as... organic efficient if you know what I mean haha. Thanks again everyone
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
I'll be watching and updating for sure ill tag you guys. Next time I'm gonna go coco coir I think. Or maybe hydro. I know its a bit harder but I'm pretty technically proficient and not as... organic efficient if you know what I mean haha. Thanks again everyone
Hydro isn't harder, per se, you just have to be disciplined with it. Organics you can be a lil lazier, but honestly neither one is really harder than the other.
 

BongerChonger

Well-Known Member
I just cal mag the soil and made sure the ph was correct. I did feed it a extremely small amount of nutes in two seperate feedings
Update, had to water yesterday. Pot was light. Soil was dry. Pretty sure she's a goner. I pulled the yellow leaves that would release. Big sad but this is how she's looking today @BongerChonger @keep it real. View attachment 5309376View attachment 5309377View attachment 5309378View attachment 5309379View attachment 5309380View attachment 5309381
Nah. Good proper feed once the soil dries, she'll come around, I think.
Make sure soil's dry. Get plenty runoff.
Avoid the calmag, give proper nutes. Start @ about half recommended to be safe. Increase as required.
 
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