Sour D. - T5 - 400wHPS - Soil - Tent

Hola hippies!! First things first -

Second, I live in Denver and every thing I post here is not only real, but it is LEGAL.

Third, Anyone can feel free to post in this journal - I am stubborn and may not follow any of your advice, but I appreciate input, and I love to learn. I've been following journals for a few years, and grew my first stash about 2 years ago. It was two Skunk #1's, and an NYCD. It all turned out well, but the most important thing I learned was this - if you are going to grow, you must be able to financially commit to creating a stable and regulated environment. Without further adieu, here's what we've got:

VEG
3x3x5 tent w/ three 4" holes, three vents, and two 3" utility holes
2' 8 bulb T5
6" circulating fan (used for exhaust)
air purifier
Foxfarm Ocean Forest

We'll be buying a new tent, lights, and exhaust system for flower.

I have been meaning to start this journal for a couple weeks, so I will divide my first post into 3 installments to cover the timeline.

The Ladies:

The Tent:


I won't say where I purchased them, and in all honesty you probably don't want to know. But to my surprise these babies looked amazing! I bought them as clones, but they look like they either came off a giant, or they had already been vegging for a few weeks in their solo cups. A few leaves have some yellowish fading (nute burn?) but they're trimmed, and the affected leaves are low. If they are still yellow in a few days, I'll just trim them off. If anything else looks burnt, I'll flush heavily. I transplanted them into the Ocean Forest in 2.5 gallon buckets, and LIGHTLY sprayed the roots with distilled water. We'll be starting off with 18 hours light, 6 hours dark, and "pure" distilled water for the first 2 days. From what I've heard OF is fairly nutrient rich, and if the yellowish leaves are nute burns, I certainly don't want to add anything additional immediately after transplant. After a few clean feedings, we will begin LST, a few "tops", and add some Super Thrive to the feeding schedule for a week or so.

Veg Day 3:

The yellowing has gone away, so I am going to add 1/2 a teaspoon of Super Thrive to my gallon of distilled water. On the pH color meter it's a solid yellow, so I added a couple of very small drops of pH up to my gallon. This gave me a slight green color, so I am good to go. I will also begin the first round of LST on my plants.

Low - Stress Training (Round 1):



Now I will do a couple of "Top"s:

Veg Day 11:

Everything is looking great! To me, it feels like the growth has been slow, but I realize it has only been 8 days, and when I compare pictures I can tell there has been lots of growth. The tops took off great, and several other branches started shooting up. I read quite a bit about Apical Dominance, so it's cool to see the effects of my actions to counteract it. Obviously with my space, and the fact I only have 2 plants (so far!), and the fact Sour D is fairly Sativa dominant (from what I understand?) anything I can do to keep the ladies wide, bushy, and multi-cola'd is a plus!! Here's how they look so far:

Wide Shots:



Stem Development:




Room View:

Veg Day 12:
Today I went and bought a few nutes:
Fox Farm - Grow Big (http://www.planetnatural.com/site/grow-big.html)
Bush Doctor (Fox Farm) - Microbe Brew (http://www.hydroponics.net/i/135411)
And the guys at my local shop gave me some Mad Farmer - N.U.T.S (http://madfarmerproducts.com/nuts/)

I'd never heard of of N.U.T.S. but the guys that gave it to me said it would actually lower my ppm and would help the roots take nutes. I don't have a ppm measure, so if they are right, it probably wouldn't hurt to try and level it out. The shop is pretty cool its called Chlorophyll (http://www.chlorophyllonline.com/) I bought quite a bit of my grow supplies there too. They gave me $17 off my nutes, plus N.U.T.S free.. sounds like a plug, but I'm being honest these guys have been really chill. They also have fresh produce in the back, and its really good prices. ANYWAY, added the nutes to my water, pH was super orange, added several drops of pH up to my solution, got it to a solid yellow. I didn't want to add much more pH up to my gallon, so I split it with another gallon and filled them up with "clean" water - essentially diluted my food 50%. pH was still yellow, but more a greenish yellow than an orangeish yellow. I added 1.5 teaspoons of each nute, and on today's watering I added 1/3 of a cup of the "food" to to my normal diluted watering amount.

This would also probably be a good time to talk about my feeding schedule. I fill it up to the brim of the bucket, then let it settle in the soil. Fill up to the brim again and let settle. Only once have I seen any runoff. I repeat again once the soil is completely dry, both on top and what I can feel through the slots in the bottom of the pot. Every morning I also give a light foliar feeding of distilled water. The plants don't droop, and seem to be growing well, so this watering plan seems to be working - so far. I did notice after my first feeding of nutes (last night) that the plants began to droop, so I lowered the light, lowered the speed on the exhaust fan to heat up the tent, and tried to help the soil dry out. By the time I woke up in the morning, they had perked right up and were basking in the sun, looking happy as ever.

Speaking of sun, it is about 5 inches from the top of the canopy. Temperature gauge - which is also at the top of the canopy - stays steady between 69-79 Fahrenheit, and humidity stays steady around 35-45% - which I know is lower than ideal, but considering I am in Denver and haven't taken any other humidity measures, is pretty good.

My first 2 tops are coming along very nicely on both plants.


When combining "Topping" and LST, I've noticed that there is a fine line between which one to choose. The main concern is making sure my stem base is balanced. After pulling down the main stem, the plant naturally leans one way, so it is important to pull as may secondary limbs as possible back the other direction. On one of my plants, the main stem actually makes a sort of "C" curve. At some point though, pulling a certain stem one way, may make it extremely tough to "counter-balance", so it is best to top, and train the 2 stems that grow in it's place in whatever direction you need.

So I have decided to begin round 2 of LST... and do some trimming. Like I said, my main interest right now is building a good stem base. And the best way to do that is to try and create as many tops as I can. While doing my 2nd round, I realized why SCoG has become such a widespread style of training. For only 2 plants, LST is working fine for me though. I trimmed a few of those smalls leaves off the stem bases. Those things don't get light, and are only wasting energy.

LST Round 2 and some trimming

Stem bases are coming along fairly nicely:


In all of the "Big Yield" plants I have had the pleasure of seeing in person, they all have a nicely manicured, evenly divided, stem base, with several offshoots. From this base, many tops can be achieved from each "main stem". I've been reading about these techniques for years, so it is really cool to see them in use, and to be able to "build" my plant like all the others giants I've seen.

After every round of LST, I like to raise the light for a day or two to encourage the plants to to turn back up to the light. I am careful to adjust them back down though, because given the strain I am growing and lights I am using, I think this thing could streeetch, and I don't wan't that - yet.


The main thing I will be watching for over the next few days is any nute burn. I diluted my gallon 50%, so I should be ok, but I've got a gallon of diluted, just in case I need to flush.

It looks like I've got quite a few views, but no replies yet. Again, Anyone can post comments, replies, or info into this thread. I welcome knowledge and input - or if nothing else a bump, sub, or whatever else keeps threads relevant.

Just noticed something cool and wanted to post it: After round 2 of LST, I think it is fair to say my ladies have had quite a bit of new growth and have become decently bushly - so far - but when comparing it to my very first photo (pre-LST) my canopy is actually lower. If I had the same angle of photo I would make a comparison pic, but I think it's fairly easy to notice.
Soo cool. Small space + 2 plants + "Topping" + LST = bushy, stalky, mamas = LOTS of nugs = =

Nothing a million of you haven't proven already, just neat to see in person. My first grow was in a hall closet with flouro shop lights. About 3/4 of the way through veg my "friend" accidentally set his plant down on mine on knocked off 1/4 of my plant. We also didn't do LST, and had just one top. And we got spider mites. A tiny​ bit of dish soap in a 1 liter spray bottle, applied regularly to the bottom of the leaves for a few weeks cured that, but it was a rough experience. I'm feeling good vibes for this one.

Kushington out

Veg Day 15:

The ladies have been given 2 feedings of their nutes now. No burn, droop, or curl so far. 2nd round of LST is taking off nicely and the tops look great.




If they continue to look this good for another week or so, I will up the strength of the food. Probably do what I did last time (1.5 tspn each of Grow Big, Microbe Brew, and N.U.T.S). After I post this I'll be reviewing fox farms recommended feeding schedules. Stem development is building great. Thinking of investing in some supplementary 6500k cfl's as well. I am thinking of adding 4 bulbs in each bottom corner pointing up into the lower canopy.

Veg Day 18



I see quite a few people mention lighting up at the beginning of an update. I wonder how many of them actually do it right when they post.. I do.. ANYWAY, ladies are taking off nicely. I honestly would like to see more growth, but I am only using T5's, and am in soil, so I keep that in mind when setting expectations.

Here they are:


I think they look almost identical... well I guess technically they are the same plant. Definitely going to do a SCRoG next time. Also, here is what I am thinking of getting for flower:
4' x 4' x 6.5' tent
400w HPS w/ digital ballast and coolhood
425cfn inline fan w/ filter (setup will be filter>ducting>light>ducting>tent wall> fan)
1 HEPA filter air purifier
2 clip on 6" circulating fans

I also want to add a pan-and-tilt WiFi cam. I want to set the tent up in my detached garage and the cam would help me be able to see the thermometer as well as being able to pan over to the plants. Also, the model I am looking at can sense motion and record video and email it to me or deliver it to an FTP site. I work in the security industry so I know these motion sensor type things are hit and miss, but security in my scenario is only a secondary concern. If I could setup some sort of ability to control a fan controller remotely, that would be sweeet. The next issue I need to deal with in my garage setup is how cool it gets at night in spring in Denver...

Also thinking of cutting a few clones off these babies in a few weeks. Here's my cloning checklist so far, let me know if you have any input:
cloning gel (brand?)
rock wool cubes
humidi-dome
heating mat?
any other nutes?

Never cloned before, but I can't wait to try it out. These ladies seem clean and resilient, and if they really are sour d, I wouldn't mind keeping some in stock for awhile longer.

Thanks for those reading, bump me up! Kushington out!

Hey just reading up on your thread man,your ladies are looking good! I'm interested in your tying technique there. I have 2 sour diesels growing myself (though mine are RP fem seeds), not the true clone. Although, yours do resemble characteristics I've seen in mine thus far.

As far as cloning goes, one thing I personally recommend is having a dome. It helps keep a constant high humidity. Since the clones have no way to absorb water until roots form, keeping the leaves moist helps keep them healthy until the roots come in.

Everyone has their opinions about cloning, but with every plant I've cloned I've never lost a clone when using a dome and a daily misting.

Really nice looking girls dude, I'll be checking back to see how they progress.

Sorry I read your last post too fast and didn't notice you had a dome in your list. I'd say you're set.

Hey ne0, thanks for popping in! These ladies are healthy and obviously fem, so I will definitely be trying my hand at taking clones. How close to your lights do you place your dome? Also, is it worth being concerned about air circulation in the dome? I thought about cutting a hole in the dome and affixing a small computer fan pulling air out, and then cutting a few holes in the other end. Obviously, this would lower my humidity so I would be spraying more often, so is it even worth? Haven't ever seen any mold reports while cloning..

Very nice sour D. Plants. That's going to be some dank for sure.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about air circulation with clones, as long as you are lifting the dome at least once a day to get a fresh dose of air in there. It would be better to keep them extra moist than let them dry out. What I personally do is lift the dome 3 times per day and give them a fresh misting, and twice a week I'll make one of those mistings with a very dilute nutrient spray. I personally haven't had issues with mold doing this. Usually though after a week I'll have to wipe out the dome goods because of algae.

a mongo frog said:

Very nice sour D. Plants. That's going to be some dank for sure.

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Thank you good sir, I sure hope so!

ne0logic said:

I wouldn't be overly concerned about air circulation with clones, as long as you are lifting the dome at least once a day to get a fresh dose of air in there. It would be better to keep them extra moist than let them dry out. What I personally do is lift the dome 3 times per day and give them a fresh misting, and twice a week I'll make one of those mistings with a very dilute nutrient spray. I personally haven't had issues with mold doing this. Usually though after a week I'll have to wipe out the dome goods because of algae.

Click to expand...

Ah, that sounds good, thanks for the info! I've got a few tops pointed out in my next update that I am thinking of cutting and keeping. About how wet do you get the rockwool before placing the stem in it?

I've never used rockwool, I prefer the rapid rooters, but I make sure they are thoroughly soaked. Oh, the lights don't need to be close in fact I think it's better to have them further away.

Veg Day 21



So far, so good! Tops are continuing to look great, and new growth is "well diversified". I haven't noticed much vertical growth (which isn't necessarily bad), but I wouldn't mind the ladies taking a nice stretch with their new tops, so I moved the light up to about 18 inches away from canopy. Still fairly close, but should give me a little more movement.

View attachment 2467879View attachment 2468033

I am done with LST for now. Once flowering gets going, I will start pulling where needed to get good light penetration. I do have a few more top-cuts I would like to make though - i think . Here is what I am thinking of cutting:


Taking these tops would definitely even out my canopy... but I think I remember reading that having your outer colas slightly taller can actually be good because they will get more light.. anyone have any experience with this? Additionally, I think these tops could make great clones. Which brings me to my next question.. when is the ideal time to take clones? and about how many nodes should the cutting have?

Thanks for the input so far, MUCH appreciated!

Kushington out

Soak rockwool for at least 24 hrs in ph'd water. Use whatever cloning product you can get, I use clonex when I've got it or sometimes nothing but I've got a lot of practice. You want two leaves and a top, your nodes will be removed down the stem and some say it's necessary for rooting to have removed those nodes. If leaves are big I cut them to about a third the size, water mist daily.

Greetings Kushington!!! 0

Love your journal!!!! Your project looks AMAAAAZING!!! I am patiently awaitng your awesome updates... Please share... THXXXX