Soil Sample

The3rdMan

Well-Known Member
This is the second soil report from a Coot's Mix. Ingredients: 6 gallons Peat Moss, 2 Gallons Compost, 2 Gallons EWC, 1/4 cup Karanja/Neem, 1/4 cup Kelp Meal, 1/4 Cup Crustacean Meal, 1 Cup Barley, 1/4 Cup Gypsum, 1 cup Oyster Shell Flour, 1 Cup Basalt Rock Dust, 1/4 Cup Glacier Rock Dust, & 1/4 Cup Azomite and 25-30% perlite.

I'm concerned about the report showing P, K, S, CA, NA above Optimum Levels and wonder if this is going to be a problem or not. For this soil test, I reduced Karanja/Neem, Kelp, & Crustacean meals from 1/2 cup to 1/4 cup and a bit surprised that P and K are still above Optimum. I also reduced Gypsum from 1 cup to 1/4 cup and thought that would bring both Calcium and Sulfur down to Optimal, but they are also elevated. I am guessing the Salt (NA) is from Kelp & Crustacean meals. I am also surprised at the micronutrient levels which overall, look pretty good. And, it looks like I can cut the Oyster Shell Flour in half.

The chart shows some of the above nutrients above Optimal. It may not be a problem but I just don't know for sure. However, I am ready to go to flower and will have to use this soil.

Anyone foresee any problems that I may experience during my next grow?


Soil Sample 5.PNG

Soil Sample 5.1.PNG
 

DoobieDoobs

Well-Known Member
Im a noob, but maybe you need more nitrogen for the whole vegetative phase. And maybe add more leaf mold/peat in order to bring down all the high values.
 

The3rdMan

Well-Known Member
Im a noob, but maybe you need more nitrogen for the whole vegetative phase. And maybe add more leaf mold/peat in order to bring down all the high values.
I'm going into flower tomorrow but I need to add a little Nitrogen to get me thru the first 3 weeks of flower.

Right, maybe add some non-fertilized soil to reduce nutrient levels. But, not sure if that is necessary just yet.
 

DoobieDoobs

Well-Known Member
I'm going into flower tomorrow but I need to add a little Nitrogen to get me thru the first 3 weeks of flower.

Right, maybe add some non-fertilized soil to reduce nutrient levels. But, not sure if that is necessary just yet.
oh yea, I missed that part of your post. Yeah we could wait for another opinion on the matter, plants do take a lot of P and K during flower
 

The3rdMan

Well-Known Member
I talked to an analyst at MYSOIL.com and discussed this report. We talked about the nutrients above the Optimal limit shown in the chart and he didn't believe any of these would pose a problem such as locking out other nutrients due to nutrient excess.

I am curious as to what is causing elevated levels of Sodium & Sulfur as well as Potassium. I almost forgot that I added 3 TSP of Seabird Guano to the soil and that is why Phosphorus is high. The higher amounts of Potassium and Sodium is probably from the compost.. If I omit the Guano and cut the Compost in half, it may resolve most of my issues. Another soil test to confirm all this. Not sure about Sulfur though; cannot believe that all of that came from the Gypsum.

I know many of you have gone thru the process of getting your soil in good shape for growing and it would be great if a few of you could post how you took the Coots soil and modified it as it could save novice organic growers a lot of time figuring things out.
 

DoobieDoobs

Well-Known Member
Good to know you got an experienced opinion.
I do have a soil mix, but it's not coot's mix. I just mixed a bunch of stuff together xD.

for 15 liters:
6 liters of promix,
3 liters of ewc,
3 liters of compost,
3 liters of perlite,
6 tbsp of fish meal,
6 tbsp of bone meal,
3 tbsp of leonardite,
6 tbsp of zeofert.

I did something like that, nothing special.
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
I know many of you have gone thru the process of getting your soil in good shape for growing and it would be great if a few of you could post how you took the Coots soil and modified it as it could save novice organic growers a lot of time figuring things out.
Let me emphasize that I post this respectfully, and not condescendingly.

The entire point of the Coots soil recipe is that it is already designed to saved novice and experts alike the time of "figuring things out". Coot's recipe is literally 3 organic inputs (Crab, Kelp, and Neem Meals) and a single mineral input (Basalt) that are mixed into the stereotypical Peat/Aeration/Compost mix. Coots didn't even like calling his mix the "Coots mix", instead opting in favor of paying homage to where the recipe truly comes from which is Cornell University. Clackamas Coot (and Cornell University before him) already figured out that simplicity is best.

As with many other things in life, thing stop being "simple" when mankind is involved in the equation.

Respectfully, this is where most problems stem. They cannot believe that such a simple recipe is capable of so much, and mankind's pride makes us believe that we HAVE to be involved somehow. We HAVE to do something "special" in order to make plants grow. Fact is, plants have grown just fine without man, and not only will they continue to grow just fine without us, they grow just fine with us when we inevitably become worm food to feed this simple setup in the first place.

Not trying to bust your balls, fact is you seem to be oversimplifying things. Nobody has ever tried to "modify" Coot's recipe because it is just perfect as it is.

Coots has said many things in his tenure on forums. One of the things he'd preach most against is excess Phosphorus, very similar to the advice I've seen Northwoods give to many others recently.

Coots also pointed out that the reason he can get away with using 33% compost in aforementioned mix is because (and I quote verbatim) "You do not have my castings" (Source)

I talked to an analyst at MYSOIL.com and discussed this report. We talked about the nutrients above the Optimal limit shown in the chart and he didn't believe any of these would pose a problem such as locking out other nutrients due to nutrient excess.

I am curious as to what is causing elevated levels of Sodium & Sulfur as well as Potassium. I almost forgot that I added 3 TSP of Seabird Guano to the soil and that is why Phosphorus is high. The higher amounts of Potassium and Sodium is probably from the compost.. If I omit the Guano and cut the Compost in half, it may resolve most of my issues. Another soil test to confirm all this. Not sure about Sulfur though; cannot believe that all of that came from the Gypsum.

I know many of you have gone thru the process of getting your soil in good shape for growing and it would be great if a few of you could post how you took the Coots soil and modified it as it could save novice organic growers a lot of time figuring things out.
Sulfur isn't just coming from the gypsum, but the basalt as well. GRD and Azomite also have it in small amounts.

You mentioned this was your second soil test, as in second test this grow? Or second test with the same soil being run no-till?

This soil test isn't really going to tell you much because plants don't use nearly as much nutrients in veg as they do in flower. If you don't feed anything else throughout flower, a lot of those excesses could very well become deficiencies by the time you test it again after harvest.

Consider this; your soil is a pantry and each corresponding nutrient is a typical pantry item (protein shake powder, cans of tuna, pasta, etc.) If your pantry is overflowing, a simple child (seedling/plant in veg) would take years to finish all of that food where as a full grown adult (plant in bloom) will finish it in a matter of weeks.

Getting a soil test just prior to bloom isn't going to tell you much. In fact, soil tests aren't really going to be useful for many of us that are simple home-growers. Soil tests are for those that are trying to run multi-year no-till grows. If your soil is constantly changing with every harvest, a soil test will be useless to you. If you are using the same soil for multiple months to years on end? Yeah, a soil test will definitely be valuable to you.



Respectfully, you mention "modifying" Coots recipe by adding things like Seabird Guano, OSF+Basalt+GRD (when Coots has said he only uses Basalt now, and is very outspoken against Azomite), and yet the "modifications" are what is causing your issues in the first place.

My advice? Do a final top dress of Neem (6-1-2) just prior to going into flower, and then do nothing but water until the end. Your soil has everything it needs with the exception of Nitrogren, which is normal when you consider the Carbon:Nitrogen ratios of composting. It is very easy to underestimate how much Nitrogen (energy) a living soil requires, and this is especially true when you add mulch into the equation.

Crab+Neem+Kelp top dress all throughout veg, replace Neem with Karanja during flower, that's it. Eventually with a no-till, you won't have to keep buying organic inputs as the refuse from your plants will provide it for you. Just look at @Northwood thread here. He is one of many on here who have mastered the art of simply "letting be".

He has grown in the same batch of soil for years now. I've been unable to do the same myself due to various life circumstances. I am not a good grower, I just know how to fuck off and let the plants and soil do their own thing.


You'd be surprised at the information you can get just from your plants. For perspective, I've been growing in living soil since Subcool came here and introduced his supersoil recipe to us over 10 years ago. I have never once tested my soil in that period of time, haven't needed to. Your plants will let you know there are issues well before the results of a soil test come in.

Don't bother testing your soil unless you've been using it in a no-till environment, otherwise the composition of your soil will change well before you even get the results of your soil test.

Focus on fucking up and getting experience, it's no different than anything else really.

Again, I don't say this to bust your balls. I say this because I speak from experience having oversimplified so many things before in my own life time. I've given advice to people who end up growing more amazing plants in their first/second year attempting than I got in nearly a decade.

I have learned so much the hard way, and I promise you, there is no reason you have to learn the hard way like I did.
 

The3rdMan

Well-Known Member
Appreciate the information Kratos but I think I did follow Coots recipe except for adding EWC and Barley for the microbes.

This is the recipe I have used for my last 3 grows: Peat Moss 6 gallon, Compost 2 gallon, and EWC 2 gallon, 1/2 cup Karanja, 1/2 Cup Kelp, 1/2 Cup Crustacean, 2 Cups Basalt, 1 Cup Gypsum, 1 Cup Oyster Shell Flour, 1 Cup Barley. Coots recipe did not call for EWC. So, is this where I went wrong? But EWC won't give you sky high P,K, S, CA, NA.

I trusted and followed Coots recipe and had a lot of problems with it. So, after using the soil for a few grows, I sent in the soil samples and the resulting reports showed excesses for many of the nutrients. Did I experience Lockout from too many nutrients? Maybe that is why I experienced Sulfur and Potassium problems. I only use this soil mix in Flower.

I call the soil I make Coots Mix because that is how BAS identifies it. I added the Seabird guano to one batch of soil thinking I didn't have enough phosphorus. I sent this sample in for a soil analysis and saw high phosphorus. I also sent in another(Coots mix shown above) and phosphorus levels were nearly identical. After getting back the soil reports, I decided not to use that soil, so I did not grow with it. I have done more than 2 soil tests. I should have said I received the results from 2 soil samples I sent in.

Interestingly, I did one soil test with Basalt and one soil test without Basalt or any other rock dust. The test having Basalt showed all micronutrients below optimal or nearly non-existent. On the other soil test without Basalt, all of the micronutrients were Optimal, except for Manganese. I assume the micronutrients are from the compost., but not sure. I have also used 2 cups Basalt and only Iron was shown to be at Optimal levels.

Regarding high Sulfur: both tests I mentioned above showed nearly identical high Sulfur PPM. One test with no Basalt or any other rock dust and the other with Basalt and, I also reduced Gypsum from 1 cup to 1/4 cup for one of the tests. Why Sulfur so high? It may be in the compost. A soil test will be needed to find out.

In response to the elevated nutrient reading I got from the soil tests, I reduced Karanja, Crustacean, and Kelp meals from 1/2 cup to 1/4 cup and the P & K readings are just as high as when I used 1/2 cup.

Things are just not adding up and doesn't make sense when I try to think this thru. Now you say if I just followed the recipe, I would have been okay. Maybe I'm just an idiot.
 
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