Soil Recipe Comments WANTED

Hey I'm coming back full circle to an organic grow where I started. To be honest, this is partially influenced by the fact that I;ve finally got my veggie garden cycling properly through the year and have some left over stuff that I used last summer to overhaul that project. So i've got a bale of Canadian sphagnum peat, dolomite, epsom salt, perlite, 30lbs of earthworm castings, and some good mycorrhizae. Here's my plan for a recipe and I'd love your well respected thoughts:

BASE **Makes Approx 2 CuFt**

40%sphagnum peat :: ≈6 gallons
20% EWC ::::::::::::::: ≈3 gallons
13% compost :::::::::: ≈2 gallons
12% coco fiber ::::::::: ≈1.8 gallons
15% perlite ::::::::::::: ≈2.25 gallons

Dolomite- 2 Cups
Epsom Salt - 1 Cup
Mycorrhizae ≈10 tsp

Amendments:
[NEED HELP HERE MOSTLY]
Tentative amounts--
Kelp Meal - 2 cups
Alfalfa meal - 2 cups
Azomite - 2 cups
Greensand - 2 cups
Blood Meal - 2 Cups
Bone Meal - 2 Cups

Clearly I'm riffing on the popular 3LB recipe and Sub's super soil but I'm leaving out the diatomaceous earth and some other things for cost purposes mostly.

I do plan on using both AACT and nutrient teas, most likely just ewc bases (or good ol EWC-BSM) for the AACT and probably guano-centric for the nutrient tea. If my Calcium and magnesium sources seem high, i'm just being over cautious about the presence of coco in my soil base. This is also not really intended to be a super soil, just something nice and rich so I can just make teas when my plants tell me they need something

EDIT: TOTALLY FORGOT! i'm planning on reusing this and know I should check into rOLS more deeply, and am already in the process of doing that! Also anyone able to point me in the direction of a good earthworm bin plan please post away!

Comments appreciated--be easy

Dr.J

This is a good mix to use with compost teas. Are you using this for indoor or outdoor growing? How big of plants are you growing? I would consider those amounts too hot for my indoor plants.. I would use around 30% perlite for indoor growing but that comes down to preference. I re amend my used indoor soil with all of these except greensand, add more humus and vermicompost, and use it for my veggie gardens in the spring. Hopefully a master will chime in and drop some serious knowledge for ya. Good luck and happy growing!

thanks for stopping by! Yes its a plan for indoor gals; I'll be doing 3-4 3 gallon pots in a 4x2x6 with some PAR T5. Because of the pot size and tent size I generally go for 3-5' plants. Since the pots are only 3 gallon, I figured its senseless to go with a supersoil methodology. I didn't mention that this mix will be cooking in the pots for 30 days before seedlings are transplanted into it. I was going to make a big batch and store it in a 45 gal. trashcan. after its mixed i figured i'll fill up my plantng buckets (3 gal), water the soil down (maybe with some molasses in it) and let the soil cook in the containers for a month. Then when my seedlings are established and need to be transplanted this is where they'll go. I start seedlings in hempy cups that have a layer of perlite up to the hole, 50:50 Ffof/perlite, then an inch of FFOF where the popped seed is planted. this substrate should transplant nicely into the cooked soil.
I'm thinking of adding crab shell meal, gypsum and either rock phosphate or glacial rock dust to my mix as well...any thoughts on that?
probably 2 cups rock phosphate/rock dust and 1 cup gypsum and crab shell meal...any thoughts?

I've always amended lightly and the only time I tried to go strong I burnt the crap out of my ladies. I will say Crab meal is a great amendment that i recently started using. it offers Calcium Magnesium Phosphorus Nitrogen, and is a good source of Chitin, which produces chitinase enzymes that are supposed to keep soil critter populations down.. I think if you plan on using Azomite, Green Sand, and Rock dust you might want to lower your amounts of each used. I would would recommend lowering your amounts of each amendment overall.. I'm all about diversity, but I'm also a "less is more" kinda guy when it comes to amending soil, especially after my last mishap. You can always top dress your plants later if you feel like they need more food, but if you put your ladies into too hot of soil there's little you can do to fix the problem other than dig em up and transplant them which would stress them out pretty bad. Just my opinion though, you gotta go with what you feel is right.

look at my GDP grow in the Grow journal section. All those plants have ever gotten is water and compost tea. The soil only had a combined total of a few tablespoons of an amendment mix for each plant in those pots. I believe a lot of people go overboard with nutrients. Sure, usually the plants will take it, but, if you can feed them less and they stay healthy, why not? At the very least, it will save you money.

Word, I feel you on this; i'm going for a balanced approach so perhaps a little less on the amendments and what can be used for nute, enzyme, and mycos teas, and top dressing I'll already have. I guess another route to go would be to layer with FF or Roots the way sub does it, or to just straight cut my mix with store bought when its going into pots. not sure about those routes though.b
thanks for the input!
be easy
Dr.J

Not sure why it's called earth, since DM is actually ground up seashells.

I have a bag here I forgot to add to my last batch, and boy do I regret it as fungus gnats are almost inevitable at some point when using organics.

I would not recommend eliminating DM earth, plus it's pretty cheap at HD and a little goes a long way.

thats what i figured DE is for; I'll probably go grab some on the way home from work today, along with gypsum. I got some crab shell meal (no oyster shell available) to mix up a liming agent (crab shell meal, dolomite, and gypsum), and i still need gypsum.
i'm thinking this is going to end up looking a lot more like the 3LB recipe scaled for 20gallons soil but instead of using used soil I'll be mixing up a fresh batch that will have some ground coco pith in it. I'm guessing I'll be fine doing 20gal base mix, then using 3LB scaled by half...that sound good yall?

Dr. J

thats what i figured DE is for; I'll probably go grab some on the way home from work today, along with gypsum. I got some crab shell meal (no oyster shell available) to mix up a liming agent (crab shell meal, dolomite, and gypsum), and i still need gypsum.
i'm thinking this is going to end up looking a lot more like the 3LB recipe scaled by half. I'm not sure what to do about the fact that I'm making base soil and they're starting with used soil...specifically, since my base includes about 3 gallons EWC, would adding another 15lbs be ok? Maybe upping the perlite by adding it to the total mix after mixing some into the base mix would keep the whole thing from getting too muddy?
Thoughts on that?

For clarity's sake: Here's the 3LB recipe
40 gal used soil
4C alfalfa meal
4C bone meal
4C kelp meal
4C dolomite
30LB EWC
4C greensand
4C rock phosphate
4C diatomaceous Earth

DE is only effective against pests when it is dry. My buddy used it when he had a gnat outbreak in conjunction with a azatrol soil drench. He drenched them, then layered the DE on top. I stray away from it as a top dress, and I don't thing it is much of a pest deterrent mixed in the soil, but it is a very slow release form of silicate. As a top dress, i find it to be a pain in the @$$. It gets all crusty and the powder seems to get places i dont want it to get.. I think Crab Meal and Neem Seed Meal amended into the soil are more effective and provide nutrients. Those amendments, along with some Mosquito Dunks should deter any pests from colonizing your rhizosphere. I see a random flyer every once in a while, but that comes with the organic territory.

And...for even more clarity, mine would then look like this:

20 gal base mix*
2C alfalfa meal
" bone meal
" kelp meal
" dolomite
" greensand
" rock phosphate >>will substitute azomite here
" diatomaceous earth
15LBS EWC

*Base Mix:
40% sphagnum peat ≈8gallons
20% EWC ≈4gallons
13% compost ≈2.6gallons
12% coco coir ≈2.4gallons
15% perlite ≈3gallons
mycorrhizae powder, 10tsp
light liming agent: 1-2C of 2parts crab shell, 1part dolomite, 1 part gypsum

thoughts???
be easy,
Dr.J

Diatomaceous Disagreement...
to add or not to add, that is the question, whether 'tis nobler in the soil to mix, or suffer the stings and bites of outrageous gnat hatches?

Shit, also forgot about the epsom salt, i'm either adding 1/2 to 1/3C/cu.ft or top dressing at sign of mag deficiency...thoughts on that? thoughts all 'round!
be easy,
Dr.J

That is just one thing that will come down to opinion/experience/preference.. Poke around and see how other people feel about it.... Absorb what is useful, Discard what is useless, and Add what is essentially your own...

DrJ. Save the mycorrhizae for transplants and apply it directly to the root zone.

Dr.J20 said:

Diatomaceous Disagreement...
to add or not to add, that is the question, whether 'tis nobler in the soil to mix, or suffer the stings and bites of outrageous gnat hatches?

Shit, also forgot about the epsom salt, i'm either adding 1/2 to 1/3C/cu.ft or top dressing at sign of mag deficiency...thoughts on that? thoughts all 'round!
be easy,
Dr.J

Click to expand...

I don't use DE anymore. Go to home depot and buy some BTI granules. It's cheap and effective. Just top dress with some and water in. This will take care of the larvae. Sticky traps will catch the adults hopping around. If you can find any crabshell meal and neem seed cake to add as amendments those are great IPM's too.

Thanks st0w and deflecto,
I won't worry with the DE right now; If fungus gnats become a problem later I'll do the top-dressing with BTI; I'm gonna go ahead with my build plans. I'll use a little test plant before seedlings go in but it'll be cooking for 5-6 weeks before that.
Just before i start mixing though, I'll lay out what i've got on hand and you tell me how you'd mix it up, that sound good to anyone? sure would help me out, thats for sure! haha

3.8cuFt compressed sphagnum peat
2cuFt coco pith ready to go
30-60LBS EWC
dolomite
gypsum
mycorrhizae
azomite
kelp meal
crab shell meal
alfalfa meal
local organic compost (3 cu Ft)
epsom salt
perlite
bone meal
blood meal
----
i have vermiculite on hand as well, but dont usually use it unless I'm making something like mel's mix or doing a traditional hempy

holler back!
-be easy
Dr.J

I'm willing to pick up a few more things if they are absolutely crucial but otherwise I'd like to work within this list.

st0wandgrow said:

DrJ. Save the mycorrhizae for transplants and apply it directly to the root zone.

Click to expand...

indeed, thats what i usually do but i've seen a couple recipes using these rooter's mycos with their mixes; sincerely420's easy organics thread comes to mind on that point, but i'm probably not going to need to powder my soil mix; it'd probably be as good to set up a quick ewc+h2O+BSM tea to cook my soil with.

thinking of that thread, i'm pretty sure Sincerely uses tomato tone (espoma brand product) in that mix which, were I to do it, would mean mixing up like 1/3 s.peat, 1/3 compost, 1/3 perlite plus the tomato tone, then going on with scaled amendments like alfalfa, kelp, and rock dust/azomite...kinda didn't want to necessarily go that route but since I'm going to be in 3gal pots, and thus will need to be ready for teas, its not as though i've wasted anything thus far (everything i've got on hand can be useful in nute and aac teas)

Thanks for making me think!

be easy,
dr.J

Looks pretty good. I've ditched the perlite and now use rice hulls for aeration. They tend to stay put in the bucket whereas the perlite will rise/float to the surface defeating it's purpose. If you're going no-till, I'd recommend cutting back on the perlite and adding rice hulls (or pumice) in lieu of it.

st0wandgrow said:

Looks pretty good. I've ditched the perlite and now use rice hulls for aeration. They tend to stay put in the bucket whereas the perlite will rise/float to the surface defeating it's purpose. If you're going no-till, I'd recommend cutting back on the perlite and adding rice hulls (or pumice) in lieu of it.

Click to expand...

sounds good st0w, I'll think about rice hulls on subsequent mixes/amending
be easy,
Dr.J

Have you considered using any rock dusts? If you look locally you might be able to find a rock quarry or something that will give you some. That or it can be ordered from a few different places.