Soil dry on the top and sides, but moist in the middle?

newcastle543

newcastle543

Member
My 11 day old seedlings have already suffered from an assortment of rookie mistakes but nothing appeared to be life threatening until recently.

The leaves became wilted and droopy, then the bottom leaves began to lose color and become yellow and red veiny lines began to appear in the top leaves.

Now I have these 5 seedlings in a 4 x 4 tent and they were doing well(albeit slightly stunted because of my 600w MH being about 1.5 ft away) until I recieved my exhaust fan. Previous to getting the fan, I had just left the tent doors open so the central air could cool it to 85 and circulated the air with a fan. However, once the exhaust fan came I was all excited, hooked it up, opened up the windows and zipped up the tent. My mistake was hooking it up to my timer so when the dark period came, all this hot, stale air was just sitting in the tent.

Assuming that this triggered the down turn for my plants, I was hopefully that they would recover quickly but they haven't. And it wasn't until tonight that I realized that overwatering(of course!) may have been the underlying cause. I have been giving them about 125 ml every 3 days, even though they felt dry after two. But when I was poking my finger into the soil tonight, I realized that although they are bone dry on the sides of the cup, they are actually still moist in the middle!

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas??

I have the seedlings in 16 oz red dixie cups of FF light warrior under 600 watt MH. I raised it to 2.5 ft and I have a small oscillating fan blowing above the plants. Temp usually ranges from 80-85 and humidity 40-50.
 
SpiritualHealer

SpiritualHealer

Member
I think you're humidity's to low. Should be about 50-60% especially if they're still babies. Definately a good thing you moved that light up also, 1.5 feet is way to close for the seedlings 2.5 sounds good. Sounds like a deficience if you've got red viens and yellowing leaves.

Scope this to see what it is: http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/tables_guide.php, you might just need a little heavier dose dose for the babies. Would rush this though, research first.
I'd suggest raising the humidity first though and see if that helps. Post pics if possible
 
newcastle543

newcastle543

Member
SpiritualHealer said:
I think you're humidity's to low. Should be about 50-60% especially if they're still babies. Definately a good thing you moved that light up also, 1.5 feet is way to close for the seedlings 2.5 sounds good. Sounds like a deficience if you've got red viens and yellowing leaves.

Scope this to see what it is: http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/tables_guide.php, you might just need a little heavier dose dose for the babies. Would rush this though, research first.
I'd suggest raising the humidity first though and see if that helps. Post pics if possible
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Hey Spiritual, thanks for that chart--bookmarked. After answering the questions, it would appear that my seedlings have a P deficience.
But I haven't fed tham nutes yet? I was thinking i should do that around the end of the 2nd 'real week' so maybe 1 week from now?
Also, when should I transplant to a 2 or 3 gallon pot? Maybe a few days after these babies recover, if they do?

I'm hoping that it was just the combination of a few sudden bad changes that caused this illness...hopefully they will bounce back in a few days...

I water with distilled and when I check the run-off, the ph reads at 6.4 but the meter could be off?

Your right about needing pictures. I'm too paranoid to use my phone but I was scoping some digital cameras out that are under 50 bucks. I think that will be my next (and final, hopefully) investment tomorrow. I don't think I can make it to the end without the guiding help of this forum.
 
newcastle543

newcastle543

Member
Also, I use to have a warm mist humidifier (proably should have gotten the cool mist) but, anyway, I took it out of the tent a few days ago so hopefully adding it back now will help aid in the recovery process.

It's kinda funny how much my plants are already dictating my mood. When they look good, I feel happy, when they look bad, I am depressed.
 
guitarman7311

guitarman7311

Well-Known Member
newcastle543 said:
My 11 day old seedlings have already suffered from an assortment of rookie mistakes but nothing appeared to be life threatening until recently.

The leaves became wilted and droopy, then the bottom leaves began to lose color and become yellow and red veiny lines began to appear in the top leaves.

Now I have these 5 seedlings in a 4 x 4 tent and they were doing well(albeit slightly stunted because of my 600w MH being about 1.5 ft away) until I recieved my exhaust fan. Previous to getting the fan, I had just left the tent doors open so the central air could cool it to 85 and circulated the air with a fan. However, once the exhaust fan came I was all excited, hooked it up, opened up the windows and zipped up the tent. My mistake was hooking it up to my timer so when the dark period came, all this hot, stale air was just sitting in the tent.

Assuming that this triggered the down turn for my plants, I was hopefully that they would recover quickly but they haven't. And it wasn't until tonight that I realized that overwatering(of course!) may have been the underlying cause. I have been giving them about 125 ml every 3 days, even though they felt dry after two. But when I was poking my finger into the soil tonight, I realized that although they are bone dry on the sides of the cup, they are actually still moist in the middle!

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas??

I have the seedlings in 16 oz red dixie cups of FF light warrior under 600 watt MH. I raised it to 2.5 ft and I have a small oscillating fan blowing above the plants. Temp usually ranges from 80-85 and humidity 40-50.
Click to expand...



LOL!!! oK Im a newbie to. But even a newbie should know 85 degrees in doors is to hot really, need between 70 and 80 degrees F and yellow leaves can be a sign of over watering. In that size cup I would water every few days, and only bout half a cup, dont drench it. i USE mIRACLE GROW POTTING MIX AND ALWAYS HAVE GREEN THRIVING tomato PLANTS. Thats my 2 cents.
 
newcastle543

newcastle543

Member
guitarman7311 said:
LOL!!! oK Im a newbie to. But even a newbie should know 85 degrees in doors is to hot really, need between 70 and 80 degrees F and yellow leaves can be a sign of over watering. In that size cup I would water every few days, and only bout half a cup, dont drench it. i USE mIRACLE GROW POTTING MIX AND ALWAYS HAVE GREEN THRIVING tomato PLANTS. Thats my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
How vital is being under 80 degrees? I live in a hot climate and in order to keep the tent at 84, i need to keep my central air running at 74 which is both costly and unseasonable cold for me. Couple that with the fact that sometimes i lock the bedroom door when i leave for work and the temps do get driven up sometimes...but is that really a major issue?:-|
 
SpiritualHealer

SpiritualHealer

Member
newcastle543 said:
Hey Spiritual, thanks for that chart--bookmarked. After answering the questions, it would appear that my seedlings have a P deficience.
But I haven't fed tham nutes yet? I was thinking i should do that around the end of the 2nd 'real week' so maybe 1 week from now?
Also, when should I transplant to a 2 or 3 gallon pot? Maybe a few days after these babies recover, if they do?

I'm hoping that it was just the combination of a few sudden bad changes that caused this illness...hopefully they will bounce back in a few days...

I water with distilled and when I check the run-off, the ph reads at 6.4 but the meter could be off?

Your right about needing pictures. I'm too paranoid to use my phone but I was scoping some digital cameras out that are under 50 bucks. I think that will be my next (and final, hopefully) investment tomorrow. I don't think I can make it to the end without the guiding help of this forum.
Click to expand...
Well if it is a nute problem, I would suggest giving them a very light dose of some sort of root stimulator which should contain a small amount of nutes and will help support healthy root consumption and growth. You should check within the line of nutes you were going to use, they should carry something. Hit up your local hydro store and see what they've got!

And I'm pretty sure you're ph should be at at 6 even at this point. And a lot of Root Stimuator will also help prevent bacteria which may be causing the rise in ph.

I'd say wait about a week after recovery to transplant. Attach pics though!!
 
newcastle543

newcastle543

Member
SpiritualHealer said:
Well if
I'd say wait about a week after recovery to transplant. Attach pics though!!
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I just bought this camera so that I could post pics so hopefully the clarity is acceptable.

A few more things that I remember doing 'wrong': the first couple of times that I watered the plants, I let the run-off sit in the tupperware where it was slowly sucked back up. Also, because my soil gets really dry and clumpy, I would squeeze the dixie cups, rather roughly, in an attempt to break it up.

I'm worried that there might be some root rot which would probably mean these babies have no chance at evovery, right? Does it look like there is anything I can do?

I have some worm castings, and I was thinking I should layer the top of the soil with it. Should I spray any water on the soil, or continue to let it scorch?

Also, I have some 3 gallon containers and ff ocean forest, perlite, and spagnum peat moss at the ready if anyone thinks I should just go ahead and transplant. Maybe that could spark a recovery?
 
SpiritualHealer

SpiritualHealer

Member
Well those look underwatered to me. I would definately suggest not squeezing the cups anymore that's probably doing more damage to the roots than good.. Perhaps torn outer roots are the cause for the sides being dry, all the moisture being sucked to the middle where healthy roots are? Damaged roots or like you said possibly bacteria may be causing the underwater also.

Either way, don't transplant yet, I suggest trying something like this http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/no_shock_landing.html ,in the appropriate dose, first and they should be fine.
 
Puffster

Puffster

Well-Known Member
do you water quikly an fill top to create vacum?one of the most importent tricks i was taught.GOOD LUCK!
 
newcastle543

newcastle543

Member
SpiritualHealer said:
Well those look underwatered to me. I would definately suggest not squeezing the cups anymore that's probably doing more damage to the roots than good.. Perhaps torn outer roots are the cause for the sides being dry, all the moisture being sucked to the middle where healthy roots are? Damaged roots or like you said possibly bacteria may be causing the underwater also.

Either way, don't transplant yet, I suggest trying something like this http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/no_shock_landing.html ,in the appropriate dose, first and they should be fine.
Click to expand...
I should have read this before taking action tonight...they were looking worse so I took one out to have a looksee and the roots long and stringy and they ran all the way to the bottom of the cup!

So, in a panic I quickly made a soil mix and transplanted all of them to the 3 gallon containers. Now I probably should have watered the containers first, but I didn't, should I add some now? Its been like 4-5 days since I last watered and the lights come on in 15 minutes.

Also, is it normal for roots to be so long and stringy? I had stretched these guys out a bit and then planted them pretty low in the dixie cups, but the roots were running down all sides of the cup to the bottom and holding all the soil together.
 
Puffster

Puffster

Well-Known Member
as it was explained to me,what ur doing is watering the top of ur pot so that water encompasses entire surface at once and it creates a vacum affect an draws water down thru in even distribution therefor giving you the best bang for ur nutrient buck.whatever they may be.to me ,who aint the smartest guy,it just makes common sense.hope this helps.GOOD LUCK!!
 
guitarman7311

guitarman7311

Well-Known Member
newcastle543 said:
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I just bought this camera so that I could post pics so hopefully the clarity is acceptable.

A few more things that I remember doing 'wrong': the first couple of times that I watered the plants, I let the run-off sit in the tupperware where it was slowly sucked back up. Also, because my soil gets really dry and clumpy, I would squeeze the dixie cups, rather roughly, in an attempt to break it up.

I'm worried that there might be some root rot which would probably mean these babies have no chance at evovery, right? Does it look like there is anything I can do?

I have some worm castings, and I was thinking I should layer the top of the soil with it. Should I spray any water on the soil, or continue to let it scorch?

Also, I have some 3 gallon containers and ff ocean forest, perlite, and spagnum peat moss at the ready if anyone thinks I should just go ahead and transplant. Maybe that could spark a recovery?[/QUOTE



Your soil looks really rough and dry what are u using ?? Those white cups have to go now !!,,,, they should be dark color to prevent light/mold getting to the roots. Yes transplant into Miracle gro potting mix. NOT THE ORGANIC, Either moisture control or regular. Or if available Fox Farm with no added nutes. The last thing u want is to over fertilize !!!!!!! Transplant into 5 gallon, at least 3 gallon buckets.
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