Soil Debate - FoxFarm vs Roots

Nullis

Moderator
If the water pisses right thru the container, IMO you're probably letting it dry out a bit too much. If you let the medium get really dry it'll also have a tendency to shrink and pull away from the sides of the container some and in this case the water will just run down that gap between the sides.

If you've ever seen how a moist sponge absorbs more water than a dry sponge, potting mixes are the same. When feeding, I always try to give my plants a small amount of water, wait at least 15 minutes and then fertigate.
 

silusbotwin

Well-Known Member
I recently did a side by side Roots Original vs. Fox Farm Ocean Forest.

Ocean Forest Pros: Plants stayed greener much longer without nutes.
No nutes until flowering
Decent results

Ocean Forest Cons: Lack of cal and mag
Less growth than the plants done with Roots


Roots Original Pros: More growth compared to Ocean Forest
Slightly cheaper than FFOF
No calmag issues like I experienced with FFOF

Roots Original Cons: Not enough N to last as long as FFOF without feeding
Fungus gnats every time (Not a big deal. Easily solved with sticky pads)

Overall I like the Roots better for three main reasons. First, I like to be able to feed sooner without worry of burning. Second, no more brown spots all over my leaves. And third, The three plants that were done in Roots were all 3-4 inches taller and a bit bushier than the ones done in FFOF, despite the plants all have been taken from the same mother, all at the same health.

Since then, I've switched from Fox Farm nutes over to the Roots Organics 5 mil program. I'll probably be sticking with Roots until the guys at Heavy 16 give me a sample pack or it becomes affordable.
 

thebeej72

Well-Known Member
silius-
what u just said about ocean forest really bothers me. If they were really using crustaceans and shit wouldnt there be enough calcium in the mix? I have been noticing how their quality has gone way downhill. I just switched to royal gold basement mix and am loving it! will not use another soil mix. Its light so I can nute right away (which I like gotta get them on beej's feeding schedule), good water absorption, and my plants seem to be blowing up. I flipped from clone in 2 weeks.
 

Feslope

Member
Are you guys mixing dolomite with your Roots?
I am curious also. I just bought Roots Organic Original and it does not list any lime or shell additive. A direct answer to this question as stated would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. I am not trying to be a smartass, just trying to get a specific answer.

I re-read earlier Nullis post and saw the answer. Thank you very much, great info.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
...coir has a pH which is a bit less acidic than sphagnum peat does ... The problems I have with perlite are that it is entirely non-nutritive, doesn't hold water and has virtually zero CEC, so it doesn't hold onto nutrients.
Hope I'm not coming off as nit picking because overall I agree with your assessment and enjoyed reading your post, but I did want to clarify a few small facts. First, in regards to coconut coir's pH. It should have a neutral pH or be within the range of 6.5 to 7.0. While peat moss usually has a pH around 4.5 and 5.0.

As for perlite, it in fact does absorb and release water, nutrients, and oxygen. Although not to the degree of coir or peat. The absorption of perlite can be tested by placing a few drops of water onto a dish and then placing a few perlite rocks on top. It only takes a second for it to absorb the water.
 

LeafGnosis

Active Member
I've used Roots Organic before, but typically use Ocean Forest with coco coir and dolomite lime added. Haven't used any Roots Organic in quite a while... was going to try it out again, but instead more recently transplanted into a mix of Ocean Forest and Happy Frog. I've also used Sunshine Adv. Mix #4 for seedlings and clones, and as a base for amending or mixing in with OF to make it lighter (and add myco). I do like the SSAM#4 for these purposes (it has no nutrients of its own but does have mycorrhizae).

I think it is important for people to understand the intrinsic differences between these mixes and the ingredients they contain. Also, try not to assume that any one of them is perfect straight out the bag for cannabis growing, or your specific needs, because really they're formulated for a wide variety of plants\uses.

The Roots Organic (original) comes with coco coir as a major ingredient, which sounds good because coir has a pH which is a bit less acidic than sphagnum peat does. As far as natural humus goes the RO just has earthworm castings and added humates from the leonardite... but otherwise seems like it has a limited micro-biology (there doesn't appear to be any added microbial inoculants). All in all the Roots Organic original potting mix is a soil-less medium.

Happy Frog is another soil-less mix. It has composted forest humus as well as earthworm castings, which basically means more microbes and greater bio-diversity. It is also inoculated with several species of mycorrhizal fungi, and has added humic acids derived from leonardite. It is quite a bit less 'hot' than Ocean Forest is, and contains oyster shell flour as well as dolomite limestone for pH adjustment.

Ocean Forest is more of a true potting soil, as it contains sandy loam. It also has forest humus and earthworm castings, along with a plethora of all natural\organic fertilizers that make it much richer than Happy Frog. Unlike HF it doesn't contain any mycorrhizal inoculants, but does have a lot of naturally present micro-organisms from the humus, castings and compost it contains. There is no dolomite lime in OF, only oyster shell flour for pH adjustment.

As I said, I usually add in coco coir to Ocean Forest myself (20-25%). If adding coir I might add in just a bit more chunky perlite. I don't like a lot of perlite in my mixes and really don't believe it is necessary to have so much. Sandy loam and castings help with aeration and drainage as well, and so would coco coir fibers. The problems I have with perlite are that it is entirely non-nutritive, doesn't hold water and has virtually zero CEC, so it doesn't hold onto nutrients either like humus, castings, sphagnum and coco coir do. I've also found that with too much perlite it can accumulate in pockets throughout the medium, creating dry spots where plant roots wont want to grow.

Most potting mixes\soils, especially Ocean Forest, I feel require additional pulverized dolomite limestone. Certainly for your final transplant I would recommend mixing in at least 1 tbsp of dolomite per gallon of mix, preferably even up to 2 tbsp\gal. If you have enough dolomite added to your mix you shouldn't encounter any pH-related issues nearing the end of your grow.
Since I have already purchased roots organic original for my current grow (in journal) I will definatly be using the 2 tbsp of dolomite lime when transplanting from cup to 1 gallon fabric pot and 8 tbsp of the DL when going into the 5 gallon fabric pot. The stems of the seedlings are already purple from possible over acidity... but only in a solo cup.. so they will be in new homes soon. They are doing pretty well.
 

knnthc93

Well-Known Member
I ran roots original against ffof in outdoor. The plants in the ffor looked way healthier then the plants in roots. A few of the plants in the roots had some sort of cal/mag def so I am not sure what that guy is talking about ^^. The plants grown in the roots tasted better and smelled better. It could have been the strain but just my 2 cents.
 

ExtremeMetal43

Active Member
Theyre both nice but could be better. They both got bugs but id rather take roots' thrips than ff root aphids. I also have mad calmag issues with FFOF. I would also amend it with coir, dolomite, id cut it a little and add some P. Roots is hot and does not hold enough water but just water a little more. Id go roots because with FF between the bugs and lockouts im just tired of the same problem and needs amended too much.
 

Sticky Lungs

Well-Known Member
Both are overhyped. If you're looking for a quality bag of nutrients...you know what they say. "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself"

Hopefully Super Coco will be on the market soon, for all the people looking for a true bag of "super" type soil that requires no feeding. I am very pleased with the results so far, and I've been accidentally watering with a super low pH of water!
 
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