Soft rock phosphate in no-till

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paraordnance

Well-Known Member
I searched this section but not much comes up for soft rock phosphate.

Little background - I have 1 grow under my belt where I experienced calcium deficiency. It wasn't no-till but coco/compost/ewc with kelp, alfalfa, bat guano and PBP Grow/Bloom. This time I'm going all organic no-till soil with amendments such as neem, raw liquid kelp, crab meal, oyster she'll flour home made compost & ewc.

Fearing calcium deficiencyI though I would incorporate some soft rock phosphate 0-12-0+20Ca with additional calcium (see product labels on pics). It says "derived from a compound originating from wild bird and animal guano". What are your thoughts on this product in no-till mix? How much to add per cu. Ft of soil?
 

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NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

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Looks good to me. The biggest concern with rock phos is the possibilllities of heavy metals.

As for the calcium in the rock product, if Im not mistaken, the phosphate binds to calcium above 5.5 ph and Al below 5.5 to make calcium phosphate or aluminum phosphate.

"Phosphate ions generally react by adsorbing to soil particles or by combining with elements in the soil such as calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), aluminum (Al), and iron (Fe), and forming compounds that are solids. The adsorbed phosphate and the newly formed solids are relatively available to meet crop needs."

http://www.noble.org/ag/soils/phosphorusbehavior/

If you are worried about calcium though, I would highly recommend a healthy amount of gypsum in your mix. Its fairly ph neutral and supplies sulfur as well.
 
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Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Now that you've got the crab meal, neem, and the oyster Shell Flour I would say you'll be good on Calcium. Rock Phosphate has heavy metals that stick in trichomes and end up in your blood. The rest ends up in the ground water. And you wouldn't see the benefit of it for a few grows it takes a while to break down. Fish bone meal is much better for extra calcium and phosphorus.
 
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paraordnance

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Now that you've got the crab meal, neem, and the oyster Shell Flour I would say you'll be good on Calcium. Rock Phosphate has heavy metals that stick in trichomes and end up in your blood. The rest ends up in the ground water. And you wouldn't see the benefit of it for a few grows it takes a while to break down. Fish bone meal is much better for extra calcium and phosphorus.
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You didn't read the label did you? Soft rock phosphate is NOT rock phosphate
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
"Soft rock phosphate is the soft, colloidal clay that lies between the various layers of hard rock phosphate."
http://experts.weedportal.com/74/organic-difference-phosphate-phosphate-phosphate-difference

"The raw rock (which during phosphate fertiliser production is extensively processed) is contaminated with heavy metals, radionuclides, other toxic metals and fluorides."
https://www.organicconsumers.org/old_articles/organic/phosphate.php

This is the brand I was using in the past before switching to bone char. Looks similar

"Phosphate, Calphos Colloidal (0-3-0, 20% Total P, 3% readily available, 20% Ca, trace minerals) This soft-rock phosphate is an excellent choice for calcium-deficient soils as plants will take up the calcium first, freeing the phosphorus to be taken up in turn. "
http://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs/?item=8229
 
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iHearAll

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
Cal phos ectraction from charred bones crushed and steeped in vinegar is pretty much free if you can save up,bones. Kilo charred bones to a liter of vinegar, wait one week, strain out bones, mix spent bones in your soil and use the liquid as a liquid cal phos @ 2tsp per liter water or 1:100 by volume. Just add lime to the soil. Its like 5$ max for 50lb sac local. These guys buy too much. Awesome grows but expensive inputs.... I grow a whole indoor-outdoor garden for next to free. Im not better by any means but can explain how lifestyl plays a large roll.
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
iHearAll said:
Cal phos ectraction from charred bones crushed and steeped in vinegar is pretty much free if you can save up,bones. Kilo charred bones to a liter of vinegar, wait one week, strain out bones, mix spent bones in your soil and use the liquid as a liquid cal phos @ 2tsp per liter water or 1:100 by volume. Just add lime to the soil. Its like 5$ max for 50lb sac local. These guys buy too much. Awesome grows but expensive inputs.... I grow a whole indoor-outdoor garden for next to free. Im not better by any means but can explain how lifestyl plays a large roll.
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I would love to make my own bone char, but I worry about the smell. I've also heard you need high temps (800F+) for the bone to really char. Would that make a bio char retort ineffective for this?

I have been buying it from fedco but would love to make my own with turkey and chicken bones as long as it doesn't piss off my neighbor.


Here is what I have been using happily though for the time being....... high Carbon input for your soils. $40 for 50lbs.

http://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs/?item=8226

"Phosphate, Bone Char (0-16-0, 32% P2O5: 16% available) Burned bone meal provides large amounts of readily available phosphorus."
 
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iHearAll

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
I would love to make my own bone char, but I worry about the smell. I've also heard you need high temps (800F+) for the bone to really char. Would that make a bio char retort be ineffective for this?

I have been buying it from fedco but would love to make my own with turkey and chicken bones as long as it doesn't piss off my neighbor.


Here is what I have been using happily though for the time being....... high Carbon input for your soils. $40 for 50lbs.

http://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs/?item=8226

"Phosphate, Bone Char (0-16-0, 32% P2O5: 16% available) Burned bone meal provides large amounts of readily available phosphorus."
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I use a toaster oven on toast setting pluggef into an extension cord and put outside. Broil works too. Open flame is the most effecient too. I bet you're on to something by consideting the biochar chamber but i think thatd take a while. I just lay the bones ouy neatly and turn occasionally to see the progress, they will turn into straight carbonized bones with the goodies inside
 

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iHearAll

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
How do your waffles taste in the morning? I like it, but it might get scary shoving a deer carcass in there.
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I have three oven that I've collected over time lol. A deer cracass youd be better off throwing in a big oven in the top rack on broil aftet cleaning off the meat.. Mmhungry serioisly hungry
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
paraordnance said:
I searched this section but not much comes up for soft rock phosphate.

Little background - I have 1 grow under my belt where I experienced calcium deficiency. It wasn't no-till but coco/compost/ewc with kelp, alfalfa, bat guano and PBP Grow/Bloom. This time I'm going all organic no-till soil with amendments such as neem, raw liquid kelp, crab meal, oyster she'll flour home made compost & ewc.

Fearing calcium deficiencyI though I would incorporate some soft rock phosphate 0-12-0+20Ca with additional calcium (see product labels on pics). It says "derived from a compound originating from wild bird and animal guano". What are your thoughts on this product in no-till mix? How much to add per cu. Ft of soil?
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I believe that the "no-till" is to build fungi. The reason that Clackmas Cootz leaves P out of his recipe is because it hinders fungi growth. Let me see if I can find an article to back my theory.

http://www.lebanonturf.com/education/the-truth-about-phosphates-and-mycorrhizal-fungi
High Available Phosphate Reduces Root Colonization
Interestingly, research has also shown that, when soils contain high levels of available phosphate, the degree of root colonization by mycorrhizal fungi diminishes. The higher the level of available phosphate in soils, the lower the level of root colonization by mycorrhizal fungi. This effect is documented both for ecto- and endomycorrhizal plants. Note that this effect only applies to available phosphates. Insoluble phosphates are unavailable, and do not affect mycorrhizal development.
 
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platt

Well-Known Member
just call them & solve your doubts dude. Also dont tell them you come from riu lol



For Customer Service Call
1-800-233-0628
or email us
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
platt said:
just call them & solve your doubts dude. Also dont tell them you come from riu lol



For Customer Service Call
1-800-233-0628
or email us
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If you want to talk shit, you should hit the "reply" button and stop being a bitch about it! I did a little diggin on you and you look like a jack-ass that has not really contributed shit to anyone. You go around and make ass-hat comments and you usually dont reply to someone when you make shitty comments. You have been unchecked for too long jackass. You should say some of this shit to someone face to face and get bitch slapped!!!

Here is a little search that I did on Platt... Not a single helpful statement! It's mostly jackass trying to feel special.. Well, I think that you are a fucking retard, but that would probably offend the special needs people.

Search of Platt's contributions to the organic section!!! Eat a dick dude
https://www.rollitup.org/search/40095400/
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
paraordnance said:
You didn't read the label did you? Soft rock phosphate is NOT rock phosphate
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not sure why the aggression..
he said a factual statement, you don't need anything that is 20% calcium in your mix, you have calcium in a lot of other ways, also a water soluble form isn't ideal for no-till soils.
in the future when asking for someones help be a lil less of a dick, theres a lot of very knowledgeable people on this forum, but none of them is gonna want to chime in when you act like that.
 
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paraordnance

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
not sure why the aggression..
he said a factual statement, you don't need anything that is 20% calcium in your mix, you have calcium in a lot of other ways, also a water soluble form isn't ideal for no-till soils.
in the future when asking for someones help be a lil less of a dick, theres a lot of very knowledgeable people on this forum, but none of them is gonna want to chime in when you act like that.
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not sure where you find me being an aggressive dick, 100% the opposite actually. If pointing out that some people don't read what was posted in first place is being a dick, then whatever. My other thread about "raw kelp" got sideways into politics and other absolutely irrelevant nonsense but I didn't said a word
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
paraordnance said:
You didn't read the label did you? Soft rock phosphate is NOT rock phosphate
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seems a lil "dick'ish" considering he was making a valid point.
and what on the label would make what he said, not relevant?
that's what I am talking about.
You do not need that for the mix that you are making. You have plenty of calcium.
if you are indeed, the opposite of a dick, then I stand corrected, but remember in the world of the internet it's solely what you type that people will base their views upon.
 
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