soap??? wetting agent????

legallyflying said:

surf king is a penetrator. The degree that a product actually penetrates is a factor of its acidity and oil content. The oils help to break down the surface tension and the acidity helps to pass through the waxy cuticle and be absorbed into the plant membranes. BTW, no product can accurately claim 100% absorption into the leaf. It just doesn't work like that.

PS I still don't know where to buy the fucking stuff. The online forestry supply and ag business I have accounts with don't carry it. Guess I can shop around at some of the ag stores but don't have tons of time for that.

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legallyflying said:

UB, link for link... Little less techie but good to know what base the oil components of various surfactants are derived from....

http://www.herbicide-adjuvants.com/cgi-bin/adjdb.cgi?db=adjproductview&prodkeyword=Nonionic%20Surfactant&view_records=1&sb=3&so=ascend&ww=on&ProductValidated=Yes&nh=3

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legallyflying said:

I think what he is saying is if your a savy consumer, you wouldn't be spending 500% more for a product that does the same thing but just happens to be marketed to a group of consumers that are really into getting stoned allot, observing the effects a certain product has, and then coming to the conclusion that this, and only this product can make this happen because it was developed by these super smart weed scientists.

Cannabis is just another plant guys. Its got unique characteristics, just like other plants but the physiology of the plant and the mechanisms that make products work on this plants are identical. You can happpily trip away on the "corporate techno-industrial machine" and its souless consumption of the planet line of thinking but those are the companies that employ the real scientist and chemists that develop these products, not the guys at dutch masters or humbolt products, or whatever. MJ product selling is 80% marketing. There are some unique products for sure and companies do but the time in to make sure their stuff works well, don't get me wrong. But I think you will find that the more a company markets specifically to pot growers (cough) Advanced Nutrients (cough) the greater the markup.

I'm not going to cry a fucking river about the plight of my local hydro store owner, he is doing quite well. There is another locally owned store that sells agriculture products and he is just as much a local as the hydro guy. I don't need to take it in the ass to support my community.

P.S. I never, ever, fucking ever shop at walmart. I went in to one once though, fucking scary shit. I thought to myself "oh, this is the segment of the population that I always hear about, the under educated obese people that save money by spending money".

Gee honey, we don't NEED that 20 piece grill accessory kit, but its soo cheap, I mean 20 PIECES! and its only $4.99.....

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NLNo5 said:

Ur wisdom don't match ur avatar....lol.

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Uncle Ben said:

Best and cheapest home made surfactant aka a "spreader" only, is Ivory liquid dish soap. It is not a sticky type agent which you don't need unless your watering overhead foliage and all.. 1/4 tsp/liter is fine. Any non-ionic spreader-sticker aka surfactant can be purchased cheap at a feed store. One gallon should cost no more than $15, RedRiver is a good non-ionic surfactant. I also use another commercial product called Surf-King. It's a spreader, sticker, pH buffering agent, and penetrator.

BTW, the "90" stands for the amount of the active ingredient. 90% is a high grade. Get 88% or better. If they're charging you more than $5.00 for a liter, you're takin' it in the shorts.

As expected, another oil company is trying to hit the lotto using alot of bullshit in their lead in ads - http://www.tcs-hydroponics.com/doc/hydronutrients.htm

Get wise people, boycott such ripoff artists as Dutchmasters.

UB

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legallyflying said:

I think what he is saying is if your a savy consumer, you wouldn't be spending 500% more for a product that does the same thing but just happens to be marketed to a group of consumers that are really into getting stoned allot, observing the effects a certain product has, and then coming to the conclusion that this, and only this product can make this happen because it was developed by these super smart weed scientists.

Cannabis is just another plant guys. Its got unique characteristics, just like other plants but the physiology of the plant and the mechanisms that make products work on this plants are identical. You can happpily trip away on the "corporate techno-industrial machine" and its souless consumption of the planet line of thinking but those are the companies that employ the real scientist and chemists that develop these products, not the guys at dutch masters or humbolt products, or whatever. MJ product selling is 80% marketing. There are some unique products for sure and companies do but the time in to make sure their stuff works well, don't get me wrong. But I think you will find that the more a company markets specifically to pot growers (cough) Advanced Nutrients (cough) the greater the markup.

I'm not going to cry a fucking river about the plight of my local hydro store owner, he is doing quite well. There is another locally owned store that sells agriculture products and he is just as much a local as the hydro guy. I don't need to take it in the ass to support my community.

P.S. I never, ever, fucking ever shop at walmart. I went in to one once though, fucking scary shit. I thought to myself "oh, this is the segment of the population that I always hear about, the under educated obese people that save money by spending money".

Gee honey, we don't NEED that 20 piece grill accessory kit, but its soo cheap, I mean 20 PIECES! and its only $4.99.....

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legallyflying said:

Too wit, Randy Marsh is in fact a scientist. Just like myself

I think the point of my avatar is that south park does a pretty damn good job and pointing out the irony and stupidity of america and americans. If you think that wall mart is evil.... you REALLY need to listen to this... The commentary is from the south park creators.

[video=youtube;fimSeb5jLeE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fimSeb5jLeE&feature=related[/video]

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NLNo5 said:

All of this going on in a dishsoap thread at a marijuana growers forum. lol.

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I think what he is saying is if your a savy consumer, you wouldn't be spending 500% more for a product that does the same thing but just happens to be marketed to a group of consumers that are really into getting stoned allot, observing the effects a certain product has, and then coming to the conclusion that this, and only this product can make this happen because it was developed by these super smart weed scientists.

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legallyflying said:

Gee honey, we don't NEED that 20 piece grill accessory kit, but its soo cheap, I mean 20 PIECES! and its only $4.99.....

Click to expand...

Uncle Ben said:

Best and cheapest home made surfactant aka a "spreader" only, is Ivory liquid dish soap. It is not a sticky type agent which you don't need unless your watering overhead foliage and all.. 1/4 tsp/liter is fine. Any non-ionic spreader-sticker aka surfactant can be purchased cheap at a feed store. One gallon should cost no more than $15, RedRiver is a good non-ionic surfactant. I also use another commercial product called Surf-King. It's a spreader, sticker, pH buffering agent, and penetrator.

BTW, the "90" stands for the amount of the active ingredient. 90% is a high grade. Get 88% or better. If they're charging you more than $5.00 for a liter, you're takin' it in the shorts.

As expected, another oil company is trying to hit the lotto using alot of bullshit in their lead in ads - http://www.tcs-hydroponics.com/doc/hydronutrients.htm

Get wise people, boycott such ripoff artists as Dutchmasters.

UB

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legallyflying said:

Thanks for the links. I need to do a restock of the wine cellar. Especially after I told a friend of mine, who just HAD to have another bottle of wine at 10 when the dinner party was winding down "there is a bottle of nice Shiraz in the pantry". She comes out with an opened bottle of cab.... The $150 French Cab I have been saving for over 2 years. Which she then spilled a glass of on the rug 30 minutes later.

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Wetdog said:

Yep, back in the day Ivory unscented was the thing.

Guess what you can't find? There must be 10 different Ivories at the store and not one of them was unscented.

I'll check out the TSC on my next visit. Picked up the big Blue Book last month. If they don't have it in stock, they'll order it out of the master catalog for you.

Wet

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Uncle Ben said:

Any non-ionic spreader-sticker aka surfactant can be purchased cheap at a feed store. One gallon should cost no more than $15, RedRiver is a good non-ionic surfactant. I also use another commercial product called Surf-King. It's a spreader, sticker, pH buffering agent, and penetrator.

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Uncle Ben said:

Someone just lost a friend. I've put in about 10 orders with winewoot and been a little disappointed only once. Finally got tired of paying for wine and put in my own vineyard of the finest vinifera clones. Just came in for lunch a few minutes ago after debudding the crud on my Merlot in fact. Hope to get about 1,500 lbs. of grapes this year, or let's put it this way, the birds are gonna fatten up on 1,500 lbs. of my hard work!



I can still get unscented Ivory. If you ask the store manager they should be happy to get it for you. Only time I use it on plants anymore is in a pot drench.

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