so it's mitt romney and paul ryan

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You make less than poverty by choice, you've admitted that. You live the lifestyle you choose yet you want to punish those who took a different path.
do righties constantly chant "class warfare" in their heads as they masturbate?

again, it's not about punishing the rich, it's about fighting plutocracy. do you seriously want the top 1% in the nation to hold more clout and power than the entire bottom 50%

I'm not sure raising taxes on those making 250K is the answer though.
so in other words, you are for continuing trickle down, yet you don't have the balls to even defend it. awesome.

You enjoy the same benefits as those who grind everyday without having to do the same. You should pay more.
i don't grind every day? i send fleets of trucks to move goods down the road? i employ hundreds of people who attended public schools?

you fail.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
do righties constantly chant "class warfare" in their heads as they masturbate?

again, it's not about punishing the rich, it's about fighting plutocracy. do you seriously want the top 1% in the nation to hold more clout and power than the entire bottom 50%



so in other words, you are for continuing trickle down, yet you don't have the balls to even defend it. awesome.



i don't grind every day? i send fleets of trucks to move goods down the road? i employ hundreds of people who attended public schools?

you fail.
in order
no, class warfare does not turn us on like it does you.

hell no, as I stated that you obv ignored, this is a problem, continuing Obama's policies, which has increased the gap, would be stupid.

I'm not advocating trickle down, I want to try a consumption tax.

you employ 100s of people, have fleets of trucks and make less than poverty? you are doing it wrong.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
in order
no, class warfare does not turn us on like it does you.

hell no, as I stated that you obv ignored, this is a problem, continuing Obama's policies, which has increased the gap, would be stupid.

I'm not advocating trickle down, I want to try a consumption tax.

you employ 100s of people, have fleets of trucks and make less than poverty? you are doing it wrong.
only the righties are chanting class warfare, and it only happens as your only (retarded) response to substantive, fair concerns. worried about the great depression levels of income inequality? class warfare! worried about plutocracy? class warfare!

the rest of what you say is just you trying to trickle out of class warfare and weaseling away from the final point i made. so ghey.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
We call it class warfare because that's what it is. It's ok man, embrace it. Eat the rich, they didn't build that, they don't deserve anything more than you.

I advocate a consumption tax. Realizing the loud left heads explode trying to figure out how to stick it to the rich so they'll never allow it I want to change what designates income that would actually increase the uber riches effective rates way more than you punishing your doctor would.

You can't logically explain how making my dentist pay more in taxes puts money in my pocket. You haven't even tried. You also can't explain how raising taxes on the guy who owns the local meat market makes Romney or Buffett pay more.

You know how I know this? You haven't even tried. Instead you are 2 posts away from calling me racist.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
dumbass.
you dumbass.
just complete dumbassery .
man you told me

You may have noticed, I'm a bit of a dumbass, could you explain your plan for closing this gap? We have a corporate rate of 35%, should it be higher? Raising income taxes on people making 250K doesn't touch somebody with the ability to take profits in another country, then investing in another country, or in nothing but capital gains. Taking from one and giving to another doesn't close the income gap, the "another" can't claim this as income, you realize this right? The middle class doesn't see a dime of this extra tax. Taxing others to raise the station of you doesn't work.

I haven't read every post on this site so if you've spelled it out how this plan works I apologize, I haven't seen it.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Taking from one and giving to another doesn't close the income gap, the "another" can't claim this as income, you realize this right? The middle class doesn't see a dime of this extra tax. Taxing others to raise the station of you doesn't work.

I haven't read every post on this site so if you've spelled it out how this plan works I apologize, I haven't seen it.
OMFG you are still under this notion that this is some sort of robin hood kind of quest? for the Nth time, it is about preventing income inequality from reaching pre-great depression levels and staving off plutocracy.

you have moved from the "dumbass" category to the "mildly retarded and clearly doesn't read what i write in my replies to him" category.

not an insult, justification for said statement is found in posts 353, 349, 347, 341, 331, and more.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Buck, ftr we both point to the same period of time as to when the income gap began to widen. I submit it was when Reagan wanted star wars enough that he shifted us to a nation of borrowers instead of savers or investors way more than trickle down theories. In 1980 the average citizen put 15% of their income into some sort of savings, today it's less than 4%. We switched to a credit based economy, those that borrow will always lose to those that loan. The income gap is between the borrowers and the lenders, yet if we stop borrowing now we'll face that inevitable cliff. The tax code is nothing more than a social experiment, it needs to be thrown out and redrawn. Blaming rates alone on the economy leaves out this most important fact. When we pay as much in interest, both individually and as a nation, you are going to have economic difficulties.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
OMFG you are still under this notion that this is some sort of robin hood kind of quest? for the Nth time, it is about preventing income inequality from reaching pre-great depression levels and staving off plutocracy.

you have moved from the "dumbass" category to the "mildly retarded and clearly doesn't read what i write in my replies to him" category.

not an insult, justification for said statement is found in posts 353, 349, 347, 341, 331, and more.
You keep repeating this but have yet to answer how. I keep asking how, you keep saying I can't read.
One of your favorite politicians obv told you it would, did they mention how?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You keep repeating this but have yet to answer how. I keep asking how, you keep saying I can't read.
One of your favorite politicians obv told you it would, did they mention how?
so, returning to tax rates under which income inequality held steady is not answer enough?

all you keep asking is how returning to those tax rates will put money in other people's pockets. you're trying to shift the attention away from how trickle down is thinly veiled upward redistribution and trying to define anything but trickle down as downward redistribution. it's stupid logic and dishonest. not unlike just about everything from the minds of righties.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
so, returning to tax rates under which income inequality held steady is not answer enough?

all you keep asking is how returning to those tax rates will put money in other people's pockets. you're trying to shift the attention away from how trickle down is thinly veiled upward redistribution and trying to define anything but trickle down as downward redistribution. it's stupid logic and dishonest. not unlike just about everything from the minds of righties.
It's pretty simple minded of you to think returning to tax levels of a period will close the gap. You can't explain how this works because it won't. It's much more complicated then that.

Lets go back to the Tax levels under Reagan then.

And no one here gets accused of being a racist unless they say racist things

So shut your fucking mouth
Should interest rates return to those levels too? What would happen to our debt.

You scream racist every time you lose an argument. It's all over the boards, you even make up stupid shit about a racist website (that nobody heard of here until you started talking about it, fishy), all while spouting racist shit yourself. My mouth is shut when I type you mouthbreather.

Economic arguments are not you two's forte, you should probably stay out of them. Raise taxes to close the gap without explaining how this works makes you guys look uninformed and petty. What about interest rates, tariffs, trade agreements, oil prices, the value of the dollar?
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
No matter how eloquently you describe trickle down it's still upwards income redistribution. And it's also been proven to be a failure.

Typing out another well written wall of text won't change history. Still waiting for someone that supports the policy to show how it's been a success for the country, we all know is worked out pretty good for 2% of us. What about the rest?
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I'm not defending trickle down. I'm simply asking how raising my doctors tax rate affects the Romneys of the world. It doesn't, there are better ways if Obama were truly serious. He's not serious, those bankers are either buddies or own him. It makes for good campaign fodder for the small minded who just parrot the rhetoric, income disparity, tax the owner of the coffee shop more and it will fix it. See the nonsense in this?
 

ink the world

Well-Known Member
I'm not defending trickle down. I'm simply asking how raising my doctors tax rate affects the Romneys of the world. It doesn't, there are better ways if Obama were truly serious. He's not serious, those bankers are either buddies or own him. It makes for good campaign fodder for the small minded who just parrot the rhetoric, income disparity, tax the owner of the coffee shop more and it will fix it. See the nonsense in this?
No I don't see any nonsense in it. I own a business and sold another business earlier this year. That neighborhood coffee shop owner most likely isn't making $250,000 so the tax hike doesn't apply to him.

Most small business owners are just like me, they profit less than $250,000 a year. They like me pay a MUCH HIGHER rate than Mitt and his class. The real question should be why don't the vast majority of small business pay that same low rate as Mitt?
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Well said ink. Your rates should be lower too. If only your business was in a government approved section you could pay zero in taxes like GE.

Ive tried to explain I feel like you guys that Investment banker like Romney and Buffett should pay at least the same rate as me. Raising taxes on individuals making more than 200k does nothing to change this. Changing what constitutes income does. Being able to write off flying my private jet to Hawaii because I have rental property is one of those loopholes I'd go after.

Raising taxes on the so called rich ( good money inAppallachia, paycheck to paycheck in manhattan) was called the Buffett rule. Buffett himself came out and said "no, that's not what I recommended, your plan is damaging". He's a pretty smart guy.

Reading these boards makes me realize what a great politician Obama is because it has worked and worked well. Most of the country wants to raise Buffet's taxes, and surely something named the buffet rule does this.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Well said ink. Your rates should be lower too. If only your business was in a government approved section you could pay zero in taxes like GE.

Ive tried to explain I feel like you guys that Investment banker like Romney and Buffett should pay at least the same rate as me. Raising taxes on individuals making more than 200k does nothing to change this. Changing what constitutes income does. Being able to write off flying my private jet to Hawaii because I have rental property is one of those loopholes I'd go after.

Raising taxes on the so called rich ( good money inAppallachia, paycheck to paycheck in manhattan) was called the Buffett rule. Buffett himself came out and said "no, that's not what I recommended, your plan is damaging". He's a pretty smart guy.

Reading these boards makes me realize what a great politician Obama is because it has worked and worked well. Most of the country wants to raise Buffet's taxes, and surely something named the buffet rule does this.


My understanding is that the Buffett rule simply states that the rich should pay no less than the middle class in taxes, and it had little or nothing to do with which sort of income is taxable.
 

Krayven Sumhead

Well-Known Member
What would U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan's budget mean for Michigan families? Using nonpartisan data, the bottom line is stark. If the Ryan budget passes, a tiny proportion of Michiganders would benefit, but millions would lose.
The biggest winners in Michigan would be households making more than $1 million a year. An analysis by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center finds millionaires would pay an average of $265,000 less in taxes.
To make room for new tax cuts for the very rich, the Ryan budget eliminates middle-class tax breaks and cuts social programs. With the tax cut the plan gives to a single Michigan millionaire, communities could pay the salaries of five firefighters earning the state's median household income of $48,000 a year.
Michigan senior citizens would pay more for less security. Medicare guarantees health care for about 1.5 million Michigan senior citizens. But the Ryan budget would end Medicare as we know it.
The plan would require Michigan seniors retiring 10 years from now to use a voucher to help pay for private insurance or accept less Medicare aid. The value of the vouchers would decline over time, falling behind rising health insurance prices. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that senior citizens, or their families, would have to find an additional $6,000 each year to buy the same coverage seniors have now.
The Ryan plan would also make seniors wait until age 67 to get vouchers. That would force 65- and 66-year-olds to buy private insurance if they do not have coverage from employers.
The health reform law would be repealed. The "donut hole" gap in Medicare prescription coverage would reopen, so many seniors would pay more at the pharmacy. In addition, private insurance companies could resume charging seniors much higher premiums and denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions. Young people in Michigan would lose many health and education benefits.
While the Ryan budget does not lay out all the details of the major cuts it would impose, reductions in programs can be estimated by averaging the required cuts across programs on the chopping block. The projected cuts include:
• Substantial decreases in education funding by the end of 2014, leading to thousands fewer Head Start slots, among other things.
• Major cuts in Medicaid, leading to reduced benefits for the roughly two in five Michigan children who are covered by public insurance.
• Reductions in federal Pell Grants, making college attendance more difficult for the roughly 300,000 college students in Michigan who depend on these awards because their parents earn modest incomes.
• Repeal of the health reform law provision requiring private insurers to let parents keep young adults on their plans.
Michigan's poorest families would be the hardest hit. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities says a whopping three-fifths of the cuts would come in safety net programs. Hunger would grow with major cuts in food aid, hurting the 19% of Michigan residents who rely on food stamps.
Despite the cuts, Ryan's budget does not eliminate the federal deficit. Instead, it would strip the nation of revenue for services we all need -- like clean air, roads and education -- in order to finance big tax reductions for the very wealthy. As a result, the U.S. Treasury would continue to run deficits for decades.
All in all, the Ryan Budget is a windfall for the wealthy few, a bad deal for the rest of Michigan.
H. Luke Shaefer is assistant professor at the University of Michigan School of Social Work. Theda Skocpol is professor of government and sociology at Harvard University.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
No I don't see any nonsense in it. I own a business and sold another business earlier this year. That neighborhood coffee shop owner most likely isn't making $250,000 so the tax hike doesn't apply to him.

Most small business owners are just like me, they profit less than $250,000 a year. They like me pay a MUCH HIGHER rate than Mitt and his class. The real question should be why don't the vast majority of small business pay that same low rate as Mitt?

So you agree the answer isnt raising taxes on the rich, it would be lowering the taxes on the middle-class, small business owners, and reduce the ridiculous wasteful spending?

We HAVE to cut 2 trillion in spending yesterday, that is the real issue. Somehow we need to cut 2 trillion in spending but no one seems to want to cut a penny, just keep bleeding the American public. Cuts have to be made and people are going to be affected, lets get it done. What happens if we dont make those cuts? We continue spending 4 trillion a year, earning 2.5 trillion a year, and adding on to our 16 trillion debt? That isnt going to last very long at all, then the rug falls out from under us. Then ALL programs will be over.

We are going the way of the former USSR. We are following the path they set and there is very very little chance we will avoid the same disaster.

Anyone up for the Republic of California and the Republic of Texas?
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Krayven (great name btw) there are two things you need to realize about that analysis.

1. Paul Ryan is not running for president, his budget is no longer being considered. Granted, Romney's plan sounds like Obama's, style over substance, who really knows?

2. This was written by a man whose lively hood would be affected if MI colleges stop getting the handouts they get now.

I was born and raised downriver and remember when MI lotto was implemented for education and roads. Before then they were consistently in the top 5 in the country in test scores, now they are middle of the pack and public college tuition is the highest.

People used to move to MI from all over the country for good jobs and good schools. Granholm, while a nice lady and good intentioned ran that state into the ground. If anyone wanted to do a case study of what unfettered democratic leadership brings, MI and Detroit are excellent examples.
 
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