So I'm Trying to Make a LED Panel

AllDay, your best bet for COBs (IMO) is to go through digikey or another mentioned site and not through Amazon. There are exceptions to this, like Alibaba, where you can find great deals that are worth the risk/wait such as

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...0K-CREE-XT-E-1-5W-high/815938_1736498449.html

Also a quick spark into Digikey.com for looking for COBs

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/optoelectronics/led-lighting-cobs-engines-modules/525140

(I bookmark ALOT)

I received my ordered goods from Mouser (Meanwell Drivers) and DigiKey (Vero 18's) like within a week. They are great to work with and they are supplied with the best brands and the brand you pick goes a long way with COBs and LED stars. If currency is an issue for you now, devise a plan and start small while progressively building when funding trickles through.

AllDayToker said:

Alright, so lets say I get the Vero 29s from Digikey. Those are 50w each correct? And one of those on each end of my 600w HPS will allow me to put a third 2ft wide plant in there?

Is it alright if I buy the drivers and wiring and fans and such from Amazon?

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I don't see why not. Although you can find quality drivers through Mouser, like MeanWell, that are sometimes nearly the same price as some generic duplicate.

I did buy a few drivers in the past from Ebay and Amazon. I'm not using them currently.

Yes, vero 29 at 1.4A is about 50W of electric dissipation and would be a great addition to a 600W HPS in my opinion.

The artic 11 would work, but I really like the heatsinks I get made from heatsink USA. Amazon probably is the best place to get the artic 11.

You could get a 12V wall wart off amazon too. I use 5-conductor wago connectors to wire up to 4 fans) also on amazon. I love those things.

AllDayToker said:

Alright, so lets say I get the Vero 29s from Digikey. Those are 50w each correct? And one of those on each end of my 600w HPS will allow me to put a third 2ft wide plant in there?

Is it alright if I buy the drivers and wiring and fans and such from Amazon?

Click to expand...

churchhaze said:

Yes, vero 29 at 1.4A is about 50W of electric dissipation and would be a great addition to a 600W HPS in my opinion.

The artic 11 would work, but I really like the heatsinks I get made from heatsink USA. Amazon probably is the best place to get the artic 11.

You could get a 12V wall wart off amazon too. I use 5-conductor wago connectors to wire up to 4 fans) also on amazon. I love those things.

Click to expand...

Do you have a link for the Artic 11 I see a couple on here. Also the wall wart and this wago connector?

Any 12V voltage source would work as long as you don't exceed the current maximum (overload).

http://www.amazon.com/Amamax-Wall-Adapter-Power-Supply/dp/B006GEPUYA/

I think the artic 11 takes something like 250mA of current, so you'd be able to use 4 in parallel on this supply.

The wago 222 are a bit expensive, but really nice.

www.amazon.com/Wago-222-415-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B003K12QN0/

http://www.amazon.com/Wago-222-412-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B00HIOP6SC

AllDayToker said:

Do you have a link for the Artic 11 I see a couple on here. Also the wall wart and this wago connector?

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churchhaze said:

Any 12V voltage source would work as long as you don't exceed the current maximum (overload).

http://www.amazon.com/Amamax-Wall-Adapter-Power-Supply/dp/B006GEPUYA/

I think the artic 11 takes something like 250mA of current, so you'd be able to use 4 in parallel on this supply.

The wago 222 are a bit expensive, but really nice.

www.amazon.com/Wago-222-415-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B003K12QN0/

http://www.amazon.com/Wago-222-412-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B00HIOP6SC

Click to expand...

So I just cut off that end of the power supply and wire it up right?

Also do you have a link for the Artic 11? There is a couple of them, some say they cool 90w some say 150w.

Yep, just cut the end off and wire it to a bunch of the fans in parallel. Make sure you don't do it backwards or you'll destroy the fans. (artic 11 fans don't have backward current protection)

This one is the one everyone's been getting. I have a few myself as well.

http://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Alpine-11-Plus-Cooler/dp/B00606OHQQ/

Alright so I got the lights, fans, and power supply for the fans figured out.

Found these 50w drivers on amazon. Will these do ok? What kind of power supply for those do I need? Something better then the 12v ones I got for the fans?

Also for the wiring, is 18 awg large enough to connect the drivers to the lights?

AquariusPanta said:

I chose 50% because I'm optimistic about my COBs. Churchy gave me, without the clearest understanding, an average similar to the one you just offered.

I'm still learning some of the basics GG; please satisfy my curiosity of learning more by explaining why you chose 33.5% as an average efficiency, whether through the use of experience or some sort of reliable source of research.

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There is no picking or choosing efficiency...it is what it is. you pick the drive current which corresponds to an efficiency.
Supras spreadsheets make it all easy to just look and see.

And that is the lowest bin(z2) cxa. The AB bin is something like 23% more total output. Coming from the 8ish% increase in efficiency.

But if one wants to know where all that data came from it is available by a little analysis using the data sheet.
First select your drive current(lets say 1300ma since it in the data sheet as an example) and then find the corresponding voltage in this graph below

For 1300ma at 25*c it will run at about ~37v (you can get more detailed if you digitalize or get the raw data for that graph)
So 37v x 1300ma...gives about 48.1watts(remember this for a sec)

Now go to the next graph and find the corresponding output for 1300ma to its luminous flux %(based on 8500lm as 100%...but use what ever the bin your analyzing is)...

It spells the whole thing out in words at the top of the graph...
at 1300ma and 25c it should do 80% of its full output...(8500*.8 )=6800lm

Now remember the wattage you calculated...48.1w...divide the total lumens at the current(6800lm) by that wattage and you have and you get 141.4lm/w...
And for the final step you need the LER...which is hard to find/get but is in the 325lm range for most WW(except bridgelux,320)...
And divide the lm/w(141.4) by the LER(325) and you have the efficiency...about 43.5% for the CXA AB bin at 1300ma operating at 25C.

As the variables change...so does the efficiency of the chips...even just a few degrees ambient can effect things as you can see by the different temps in the graphs. But using the equations/formulas/datasheets it all can be determined fairly accurately.

I just had to do some math after that lecture.

Here was a site I wandered off to in pursuit of understanding LER...

http://www.ledlighting-eetimes.com/...-leds.html?cmp_id=71&news_id=222908534&page=0

I feel sort of bummed out by this revelation of COB inefficiency. I did the numbers, and I'm supposing that one of my V18s (4K), @28.3V and 1037mA, is producing ~18.5W of heat... leaving me with only 10.5W of light spectra or a 35.6% COB efficiency . FUCK. That doesn't seem like a whole bunch at the moment. I love the formula though haha.




THANK YOU FOR LAYING THIS OUT FOR ME TO DEVOUR GG!!!

The good news is that 35.6% is still very good, especially considering it all shoots down and doesn't diminish quickly over just a few grows..

50% is possible right now, but only by seriously under-driving the cxa3070 3000k AB, which would mean way more up front cost in cobs, but not more up front cost in heatsinks and drivers.

I've established, mathematically, that when driving the COB at a lower current, the array efficiency increases. This was previously established but I had to do the numbers myself. The next thing that came across my attention was that even though lower current equals better array efficiency, you lose/lower gross or total wattage (both heat and radiant).

As an example, by running the V18 (4K) COB at ~1050mA rather than 700mA, I gain a few extra watts in exchange for a considerable amount of heat. Also I save a little more money per watt I believe, based from the excel sheet. What am I missing here? There is a consequence to running at higher amperage isn't there? Is it the COB's or driver's loss of life longevity?

So am I still suppose to get COBs?

Sorry I'm new to LEDs all this shit is confusing me haha.

AquariusPanta said:

I just had to do some math after lecture.

Here was a site I wandered off to in pursuit of understanding LER...
http://www.ledlighting-eetimes.com/...-leds.html?cmp_id=71&news_id=222908534&page=0

I feel sort of bummed out by this revelation of COB inefficiency. I did the numbers, and I'm supposing that one of my V18s (4K), @28.3V and 1037mA, is producing ~18.5W of heat... leaving me with only 10.5W of light spectra or a 35.6% COB efficiency . FUCK. That doesn't seem like a whole bunch at the moment. I love the formula though haha.




THANK YOU FOR LAYING THIS OUT FOR ME TO DEVOUR GG!!!

Click to expand...

I must be doing something wrong considering im getting 37.8 for a v18 @ 1400ma.

Eta: 37.8% @ 25c 35.9@ 50c

AllDayToker said:

So am I still suppose to get COBs?

Sorry I'm new to LEDs all this shit is confusing me haha.

Click to expand...

If you are stuck to amazon...then I don't really have a suggestion.

But if you want a great light to supplement your current setup and make it easy to have the best possible full size light in the future, then get...
-2 cree cxa z2,z4,ab...they all will work to start
-2 arctic 11 plus cooler
-2 meanwell lpc 60-42 driver
-1 fan power supply 12v 1a
-pk3 thermal grease
-kapton tape
-Solder and iron
-18g wire
-grounded extension cord

between 100$ and 150$ based on how you source and which bins. Google is your friend.

Greengenes707 said:

If you are stuck to amazon...then I don't really have a suggestion.

But if you want a great light to supplement your current setup and make it easy to have the best possible full size light in the future, then get...
-2 cree cxa z2,z4,ab...they all will work to start
-2 arctic 11 plus cooler
-2 meanwell lpc 60-42 driver
-1 fan power supply 12v 1a
-pk3 thermal grease
-kapton tape
-Solder and iron
-18g wire
-grounded extension cord

between 100$ and 150$ based on how you source and which bins. Google is your friend.

Click to expand...

Well I'm just stuck on Amazon because it would be faster to get into the rotation. Faster money coming back means faster upgrades to a full LED system with quality parts for both my flowering and veg boxes. You know how basics work I'm sure.

On the setup we are close. I mean I don't know much about LEDs and I know Cree COBs would probably be better then the Vero 29s, but I'm trying to run on a cheaper setup at first. If upgrading cost be later then so be it it will pay off in the long run. I'm defiantly getting the Arctic 11 Plus Coolor, two of them, one for each 50w COB, as well as 2 power supplies, one for each fan.

I've asked if 18 awg wire would be good enough for the 50w LED COBs but no one has answered, hopefully they are because that's what I plan on ordering.

I have the solder and the solder iron and I have grounded extension cords so I'm all set besides the placement order.

AllDayToker said:

Well I'm just stuck on Amazon because it would be faster to get into the rotation. Faster money coming back means faster upgrades to a full LED system with quality parts for both my flowering and veg boxes. You know how basics work I'm sure.

Click to expand...

This eludes my understanding. Rotation? Money coming back? I'm clueless mate, care to fill us or at least me in to what you mean?

bicit said:

I must be doing something wrong considering im getting 37.8 for a v18 @ 1400ma.

Eta: 37.8% @ 25c 35.9@ 50c

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Seems high to me. Those numbers don't agree with my numbers nor the numbers on the excel sheet (for 3K V1. What range of kelvin are you basing these numbers on? CRI?

AquariusPanta said:

This eludes my understanding. Rotation? Money coming back? I'm clueless mate, care to fill us or at least me in to what you mean?



Seems high to me. Those numbers don't agree with my numbers nor the numbers on the excel sheet (for 3K V1. What range of kelvin are you basing these numbers on? CRI?

Click to expand...

Sorry I've been drinking a little bit.

What I mean is I'm looking for a cheap but quality and effective way to extend my area I can cover for growing.

So right now I'm work with 8+ feet in width/length for a grow space, but only 28 inches in depth. So imagine growing in a hallway.

My 600w HPS can cover a 4' x 4' area, I can only use 4' x 2' of that because of the "hallway" closest I'm growing in.

If I can get some LEDs in there, the reason for the thread, to add another 2' x 2' area extend onto my 4' x 2' cover by my HPS, making it a combo cover of 6' x 2' of LEDs and HPS lighting, I can get more money back.

Yeah?

With leds, you can have cheap, reliable, or fast. Choose 2. wait.....

AquariusPanta said:

This eludes my understanding. Rotation? Money coming back? I'm clueless mate, care to fill us or at least me in to what you mean?



Seems high to me. Those numbers don't agree with my numbers nor the numbers on the excel sheet (for 3K V1. What range of kelvin are you basing these numbers on? CRI?

Click to expand...

I was looking at the 4kK, so makes sense why it's more efficient