so everybody is an expert

The newb posters are getting lazier and lazier. Used to be they were excited about learning. It was all about the journey. Now peeps want, even expect, someone to do the work FOR them. I'm just waiting for the day I see a post called "i bought a seed now can you just come over and grow it FOR me?

Glad someone would be interested. Here are some sources. I suggest just putting AGPase into google images, and finding where those diagrams came from though:

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/383/715.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20978801

http://www.plantcell.org/content/14/9/2191.full

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/126/1/261.full

http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/46/6/937.full.pdf

I forget which one's I've read already (I read a lot of them), but it's all old stuff and pretty well understood already. (btw, almost all the articles/images refer to phosphate as Pi, or inorganic phosphate)

http://public.wsu.edu/~tokita/research.htm

dannyboy602 said:

that's some interesting info. Where, may I ask, did you read it?

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"Here's some some seeds, I'll give them to you for free for half the harvest." "Call me when it's ready."

Lo Budget said:

"Here's some some seeds, I'll give them to you for free for half the harvest." "Call me when it's ready."

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Shit you not, I've heard it before.

czarofgar said:

So everybody is an expert....well by readings hundreds of post over the last year I'm worn out.
If you hang out on these forums you know what I mean. For every question there are multiple answers. For every guy that said this another guy said that’s wrong. People post answers to questions that have no experience or a friend told them or I read that or he said this. Now this of course is not everybody but the vast majority of post are like that.
I do understand that there is more than one way to do it. People talking as if they are stating fact or giving out science as if they have a science degree in cannabis cultivation. Now there are folks that document there grows and share what they have learned from experience. That’s all good assuming that they are telling the truth.
So Where IS all the real science? Is it too early for science from labs about cultivation? Why is there nobody from working commercial growing facilities talking about the results they get?
This is exactly why you should do your own research. Find he answers you need . Don't be lazy and ask every little question . You will get multiple answers . You will end up more confused . If you have a question , use BING or GOOGLE .
The more I read the less I know. Please point me in the right direction if I just don’t know where to find it. I’m tired of the hearsay. I just want to learn more about growing with out the 95% BS filter on.

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] grow little guy

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This is exactly why you should do your own research. Find he answers you need . Don't be lazy and ask every little question . You will get multiple answers . You will end up more confused . If you have a question , use BING or GOOGLE .

For sure if you come here without at least
getting an overview via video or book.
Your head is gonna get spun off.

Sand4x...alot of what you posted really is incorrect and has been scientifically proven...

Aluminum foil for light reflection...Proven by many tests showing in consistent hot spots which lead to poor reflection and damage to plants

Soil doesn t kill plants use any soil to grow...Again that is beyond wrong as soil vary so much if you use say an enriched soil like Miracle grow, which is fine, then you know it can be hot and if the water ph is not kept correct and run off not checked you hurt your plants development again hurting quality and yield.. Shown several time on this site alone just to prove along with the manufacture telling you this on their site as different plants have different needs.

Clear pot exposing roots to light is ok and even good for plants.....Now this either means you are messing with people on here or honestly have no clue. Uv from lights and sunshine kill the roots along with heat stress which can kill or stunt the roots again hurting yield and quality...

Amber hairs telling type of high your buds will lean towards...Again tons of tests in labs showing the different cannabinoids and thc levels at different times of flower stages. Whether clear, milky, orange or brown. The reason has been carefully shown now it is up to the grower to learn from that baseline for each strain he grows out which comes to that growers expirence..

Things like ph of soil, run off ph, hydro phs have all been multiple tested and the ranges set by actual studies and decades of growers all finding similar results. You take that base knowledge and then a good grower over time learns the curve for their growing preference and strains.

It's not about everything being BS yes there are alot of those who don't know either through reading studies themselves or having enough real world knowledge and trials to prove to themselves, but about lazy people who don't understand just like every aspect in life there are baselines offered from mulitple sources which get you started then it is up to the grower to fine tune and adjust to his person preference or needs... It takes about 30 seconds and at least a kindergarden IQ to know when someone is guessing or just tossing crap out versus reading real actual growing knowledge. I learn something every week and I see thousands of things that back the research I have read on and proofed myself. Just read, try things for yourself that you think sound real and compare until you have proven in your own life what is factual, what is BS, and what is just an opinion.

idk how you can claim elitism when everything posted is free for the taking, novice and experienced grower alike. some people pick up on things fast and learn how to grow solid after 2 or 3 tries, and some don't get it at all. that's how it goes. can't blame anyone but yourself though.

I'm going on a limb and say I am the best. You must read what I have to say and it is revolutionary. But no.. really it's all about getting the basics down and keeping them there. I still read all the same crap after ten years of growing because there is always something I forgot. If you're interested read my \/ thread. I read a simple chlorophyll chart and a whole new (working) idea came of it.

Wow....it's amazing how far off the subject it can get from my original post. Nobody has answered the question “where is the scientific lab testing results on cultivation for commercial and home growers. “? Does it not exist? Is it all info from individuals with and without any experience on forums?
I am looking for another source that just the weed blogs and the handful of books. I have read ALLOT and I feel I have sorted through the blogs to the point I'm not learning anything. I have had 2 successful grows. I want to learn from experience and other sources.

czarofgar said:

So everybody is an expert....well by readings hundreds of post over the last year I'm worn out.
If you hang out on these forums you know what I mean. For every question there are multiple answers. For every guy that said this another guy said that’s wrong. People post answers to questions that have no experience or a friend told them or I read that or he said this. Now this of course is not everybody but the vast majority of post are like that.
I do understand that there is more than one way to do it. People talking as if they are stating fact or giving out science as if they have a science degree in cannabis cultivation. Now there are folks that document there grows and share what they have learned from experience. That’s all good assuming that they are telling the truth.
So Where IS all the real science? Is it too early for science from labs about cultivation? Why is there nobody from working commercial growing facilities talking about the results they get?
The more I read the less I know. Please point me in the right direction if I just don’t know where to find it. I’m tired of the hearsay. I just want to learn more about growing with out the 95% BS filter on.

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] grow little guy

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dude stick with 3/4 growers on here for your answers, not on how many post they have done.Or pictures that could have just been ripped of the net,
I have been doing this now for around 17 yr,and i am still learning.i have a nute sced,that i stick to and nute package i stick too.
i get 24/28 of each plant some might not be happy with this yeild but it suites my needs,and its very rare i have problems.any questions i'm glad to help anyone
grow a plant that has been made out to be the devils own,its not easy so many think you chuck em in a room and that is it,i see so many new growers on here with all
the new stuff from there garden shops but they very rarely say they have the main tool a ec blue lab trunchen.They are also under gunned when it comes to fans by fans exaust, inlet
i go on the rule of 2" drop for inlet like i use a 10" on one job that goes to filter,and a 8" inlet that brings fresh air from a window.
I use the most simple but great hydro set up for new growers and old too auto pot set up.no pumps needed, well there is but not for getting water to the pots this is done by gravity.i have a fish tank pump sending air to the bottom of the pots via air rings,i don't like the bigger air pumps there too loud.i wanna keep noise down to a min.also a pump with a large airstone in the tank even if your growing in soil i would still have air rings in the bottom of the pots with soil on top not under the pots this sends plenty of frsh air to the roots i have the pumps on the outside of the room.
Horse pipe is set from the tap on the tub and goes down the centre of the room,with horse pipe to horse pipe with connectors for spag tubeing going to the pots ball cots.
nutes are simple and so is the sced,its canna a/b rhizatonic with big bud from advanced and pk 13/14 from canna sometimes overdrive but only on longer strains like haze's.
i have the inlet duct running along side the horse pipe down centre of the room with holes made in the sides so fresh air can come out all way along the duct rather than just the end.
In a other room i have its 8 ft x 6 ft x 8 ft tall.ya need two oss fans in a room of this size,but don't over do it on the plant amounts,i did two in this room with 2 x 600 hps cool hoods 8 " exaust and 6 " inlet 8" filter large.this was also a room with in a room stud work plaster boards foam same has above.If you have 6/8 ft in height then flower at 16" if you have the right amount of light they will be plenty of room,also don't top your first crop leave it to grow one cola,i never top during flowering its done in veg,i top every branch top during veg around week 3 and then leave em for a week more in veg.I put down the ec sced below it works stick to it and you won't go far wrong,try and get clones if not regular seeds not femanised start with regular seeds and you will not go far wrong,you will learn far more but like i say if you can get clones.
Feeding sced
-------------
week - 1 canna a/b and rhizatonic ec 1.1
week - 2 canna a/b 1.2 ec
week - 3 canna a/b 1.3 ec
week - 4 canna a/b 1.4 ec

FLOWERING
-----------
week - 1 canna a/b ec 1.4
week - 2 canna a/b ec 1.4 big bud from adavanced
week - 3 canna a/b ec 1.5 big bud from advanced
week - 4 canna a/b ec 1.5
week - 5 canna a/b ec 1.5
week - 6 canna a/b and pk 13/14 ec 1.6
week - 7 canna a/b
week - 8 canna a/b ec 1.6 water if they look cooked but i all ways push for 9 week
week - 9 water for 7 days

When the plants are done
-------------------------
Pull the fan leaves off,and cut from the bottom stem and hang the plants up side down and hang in dark room with
all fans on that means the filter inlet and ossalating,The reason that i dry this way is that some of the small leaves
around the the bud are full of thc,these dry around the bud,and it is a shame to trim these of while wet trimming.
i don't use any trimming gear just my fingers its faster and the end result bud wise looks the bees knees.

let me know how you go on,i know longer ph no need,knowing the ec is far more important un-less your water is un drinkable.

Keep at it and you will learn your self,get to grips with sexing regular seeds,and keeping a mother but only if it is a 100% female
no good keeping a femanised mother,it will turn on you in the end.start cloneing this helps keep the number of people knowing what your doing
down a lot,by buying clones the person you bought them of knows when your crops gonna be ready also you could be bringing clones with mites on
into your room.any problems in box me,i do not claim to be the best grower in the world but im happy to help you hit decent targets yeild wise.

If you do need to grow from seed don't use seeds found in bought bud,go with a seed bank like big buddah blue cheese-th seeds mk ultra-dj shorts blueberry there is also another strain called blues but forgot who does it------

Keep at it dude,you will get through the countless do this do that,one person saying a problem is one thing another saying its another.like everything in life there is no better way to learn a trade than doing it getting to know the plants inside out,they will speak to you honest sounds daft but if there not happy or there is a problem they will let you know.

Key your room,by this is mean run it for 3/4 hours before you put any plants in,then any problems you can deal with with out stressing the plants out. simple but useful tip is run the room through the night when temps are cooler.like on 18/6 lights of at 6 am morning till dinner 12 pm

12/12 off 6 pm while 6 am,but in winter try and have a heater in the room,i have one on the out side of the room under the duct that brings fresh air in this heats the duct work up and makes the air warm,but this is only because the heater i bought runs too hot in the room little tricks like this that can make a big differance.

..............................................................tyke................................................................................................................................

Dr. Who said:

And then you have the bickering over who's OPINION is correct! Just look at a few post's above. It's starting in her
I know I have opinion's too! I'm sure as hell not going to steal this thread by starting/fueling an argument on an above opinion because I don't agree with it! That's for another thread (and that subject has been covered to death in the past too).

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churchhaze said:

When you say "works", what do you mean? PK boosters do work, at boosting P and K!

What does it mean for a 72 hour dark period before harvest to work or not work? What is the goal? What if people are doing the right things for the wrong reasons? What if there's some half truth to most myths?

You say that a lot of these things run contrary to other crops, but do you really know that? It's normal when dealing with tobacco crops to increase P toward harvest for a smoother burning product. Even though it seems like we all love plants, most marijuana cultivators grow in hopes to "get rich quick".

If you studied the starch/sugar pathways in plants, you'd realize that high cellular inorganic P levels inhibits an enzyme called AGPase. AGPase is responsible for converting sugars into starches. Factors that regulate the level of AGPase are thus responsible for controlling the partitioning of photosynthetic flux. What this means is that a P deficiency toward harvest will cause your product to be more starchy. This is stuff most growers just aren't interested in despite being fascinating.. "How big will my yields be????"

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Gheez you two know each other?

Look, I didn't wanna start arguing whats right, wrong, myth or whatever here either...point being: repetition of info is independent of accuracy...basically just because something is repeated over and over doesn't mean its right....

...and yeah, I probably shouldn't have even pointed out what I think is bullshit or isn't....to whomever: go grab some sodium thiosulphate and water your lawn for all I care.... fact is there will always be someone who sacrifices giraffes and will swear that's what increases his yields....

...and debate is actually healthy, to a point

I don't think anyone actually cared to answer your original question.

Sorry bruh

czarofgar said:

Wow....it's amazing how far off the subject it can get from my original post. Nobody has answered the question “where is the scientific lab testing results on cultivation for commercial and home growers. “? Does it not exist? Is it all info from individuals with and without any experience on forums?
I am looking for another source that just the weed blogs and the handful of books. I have read ALLOT and I feel I have sorted through the blogs to the point I'm not learning anything. I have had 2 successful grows. I want to learn from experience and other sources.

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I'll say this. When I decided to take up growing I knew absolutely jack shit about how to go about it.
This site along with a few others like it is how I learned to be able to at least pull it off good enough to supply the Mrs and myself in what I think is better smoke than I ever bought on the streets.
I'm far from any kind of expert, but I know a lot more now than I did then.
Once again it proves that the internet is a great tool for almost anything. But like almost anything you have to know how to use it.
In the end, like studying anything you have to be able to read and comprehend. I know some people have trouble with that. Some people just what an answer and they want it spoon fed to them.
Chances are those types won't be in this "hobby" very long.

churchhaze said:

Glad someone would be interested. Here are some sources. I suggest just putting AGPase into google images, and finding where those diagrams came from though:

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/383/715.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20978801

http://www.plantcell.org/content/14/9/2191.full

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/126/1/261.full

http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/46/6/937.full.pdf

I forget which one's I've read already (I read a lot of them), but it's all old stuff and pretty well understood already. (btw, almost all the articles/images refer to phosphate as Pi, or inorganic phosphate)

http://public.wsu.edu/~tokita/research.htm

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Thanks Church! Great info!!! *LIKE*LIKE*LIKE*

Danny, You sure got that right on the newb posters!

there are so many grow forums, how-tos to choose from, ignorance on the subject is a thing of the past, just gotta try it. unfortunately, young dudes and chicks have their folks do everything for them these days in a cheap attempt at buying their trust/love and it follows them even after they move out and start to do their own thing. LEARN! (it's not just a graffiti tag) i know that's a difficult word for the generation below me, but anything is possible. like i tell people all the time, google is your friend, use it! don't know something? run a google search. it's that easy. i get people born in the mid-90s constantly asking me for this and that, but never wanting to do shit for themselves and it drives me up a wall.

as someone who's learned from books/people who grow, i'd say the internet can be a bit of a dick tease in terms of what people grow. for instance, a young/inexperienced grower will see someone push 1/2LBS a plant and think they can do it themselves, only to try and fail miserably. you gotta understand that not everyone has garage size grow rooms or 1800 hid lights to make that happen, but it's pretty normal to see online nowadays. keep in mind, these types of grows take years to learn and decades to prefect and the way laws are set up, info can't always be shared 100% for fear of raids/jail time, and a lot of the time, growers are too adept at what they know to be just letting their grow methods out, so there's that as well.

my biggest advice would be to start small, usually an autoflower to get yourself used to what growing is like, work up a decent list of supplies that you'd need for the grow season, and then learn how to incorporate your own so your wallet doesn't take a hit. after that follow the basic rules of popping seeds, correct soil, ph levels and flowering, learn to tell male/female and what to do with them, get your watering and nute schedule down then when to start vegging, light schedules. get knowledgeable about flushing and trichome color so you know when to harvest for what kinda high you want, and dig big time into drying, curing methods for best possible smoke. jars, jars, jars. learn to trim good, take your time and be precise. picking out seeds and stems before you smoke = no bueno. if you don't get that right it can ruin what you've worked months on and you'll be left with schwag weed no one will want to smoke. i've already said too much, best of luck.

czarofgar said:

So everybody is an expert....well by readings hundreds of post over the last year I'm worn out.
If you hang out on these forums you know what I mean. For every question there are multiple answers. For every guy that said this another guy said that’s wrong. People post answers to questions that have no experience or a friend told them or I read that or he said this. Now this of course is not everybody but the vast majority of post are like that.
I do understand that there is more than one way to do it. People talking as if they are stating fact or giving out science as if they have a science degree in cannabis cultivation. Now there are folks that document there grows and share what they have learned from experience. That’s all good assuming that they are telling the truth.
So Where IS all the real science? Is it too early for science from labs about cultivation? Why is there nobody from working commercial growing facilities talking about the results they get?
The more I read the less I know. Please point me in the right direction if I just don’t know where to find it. I’m tired of the hearsay. I just want to learn more about growing with out the 95% BS filter on.

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] grow little guy

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What sort of information are you after? I'm sure that the government have done trials of some sort, but they aren't going to share that information with us!

Most of this industry revolves around BS, a bit like Cheese and G13. The majority of things have been found out from experience and trial and error, so really we are doing our own science. Commercial growers use the same techniques as long as they are commercially viable and cost effective, smaller growers just do it on a smaller scale.

If you want to learn more about growing, then just grow some more and experiment for yourself with different techniques. That's the only way to learn!!

Yeah, honestly the overtone of the post was dismissive and vague.
Help us help you help us.

to answer your question OP. there are hundreds of thousands of scientific lab experiments out there...pick up any biology 101 book and its full of it...


the BIGGEST thing on these boards is the misconception that marijuanna is some special plant that os different from all other.....well its not so sorry to break it to you potheads but marijuana is just the same as a tomato plant or a potato plant or a fucking apple tree (obviously there are variations in the different plants but plant biology is pretty much the same thoughout all plants)

pick up a up to date horticulture book and start reading..dont focus on books and advice soley given for marijuana, remember who your getting your advice from on these boards...most of the people on here are dumbed down stoned burnt out morons who have all kinds of crazy dumb ass stoned ideas that sound like scientific fucking breakthroughs to them when they just finished a big bowl of sour diesl.

i am not trying to bash on people who smoke but most of the people on here are rec smokers who smoke way too much and thier brain is too clouded in smoke to think reasonably...

there are 3 basic things you need to look at whn growin

1: medium and PH...some plants thrive in a Acidic soil, some thrive in a alkaline soil and some thrive in a neutral soil...figure out wich type of soil pertains to what your growing and provide that for your plants.

2: light...some plants like little to no light some plants love full light...this will play the role of how much you provide.

3: water...some plants need thier roots in water constantly some plants need to be bone dry for weeks to a time.

all plants basically use the same elements for growth...some plants like a little more of some than others but the basic need for N-P-K is in almost every plant...your job is to determine how much of what you need to provide, simple research will provide you with this information.

marijuana is a full sun, medium water and neutral PH plant (in soil)

marijuanna is a medium feeder plant...they grow dependant on how much root room they have so the bigger the container the more fertilizer needed.

now, im not trying to say that a tomato plant grows identically to a marijuana plant..im saying stop getting your information from stoned stupid morons on RIU and invest in some literature from someone who probabally dosent smoke a 1/4 oz of weed a day and has a doctorate.

once you understand the basic cycle for all plants then you can dive into individual plants and thier enviormental preferences. i would say 4/5 of the garbage spewed out on these forums are either incorect or inacurate. dont listen to anyone on here about fertilizers.....largest clusterfuck of misinformation i have ever seen in my life. try an experiment...get some good quality potting soil (the fox farm soils are actually good, no bugs and good organic matter in them) and plant a a few seeds (do your own experiment)

in a couple containers add the expensive nutrients and in a couple add nothing but water....see where it gets you...mind you if you plan on growing a plant in veg for 3 months then yes you will most likely run out of fertilizers in the soil...but plant on 1 month veg and 2 months flowe...see wich plants are better.

anyways, i am with most on here im sick of seeing the total lack of actual knowledge on here, the stupid stoner wives tales that hold verry little credibility except the fact that a bunch of high people think its a breakthrough in science.

theres a motto i have always gone by and it is called KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

ok done with my rant..now watch the haters hate on me for the un necessary name calling and claim that they are super smarter when high ( LOL)