Slow growth coco question.

Hi so this is my first grow and I have a lot of question however for the purpose of keeping this short and sweet I will only ask the one that is bothering me right now, and maybe some of you pros can help a poor noob out. First-

My genetics are-

1 dinafem- california hash plant

1 greenhouse- White lemon

They were started in paper towel germination at the same time at around 4pm tuesday. By 7pm the next day the cali hash plant had a nice sized little root and was ready to be planted in the coco coir.
Around 10pm wedsenday it was planted in the coco. I am using about an inch or so of hydroton at the bottom for drainage. I think the pots im using are 2 gal maybe 1 gal not sure. I soaked and washed the coco coir from 460ppm down to 78ppm runoff.

The white lemon was planted the very next day at the same time. So both are about 4 days from start of germ, the cali hash plant is about 48 hours in soil from germ and the white lemon about 24 hours in. here are some pics


This is the cali hash plant. As you can see the stem is almost looking bent over or something and the first little leaves are barley sticking though the top, i barley planted them deep the top of the seeds with root sticking down was just barley exposed.


This is the white lemon, the seed is barley sticking though the top of the soil, again I barley planted it deep and had the very top edge of seed barely exposed.



Heres another of the cali hash plant.




My question is because coco coir has 0 nutes in it and I washed it down to about 78 ppm, is it to early to add a minimal amount of nutes. The nutes I have are the flora series from genhydro. Floragrow, floramicro and florabloom.


Also so far my lighting situation is 1 2700 cfl 60 watt equivilant, 1 5000k 60 watt equvilant, and 1 2700k 100 watt equivilant. I will be upgrading to all 200w eq in the next week.

Thanks guys

supergoo,

No, don't add nutrients for a couple weeks. Some people say 3 weeks even. Seedlings have built in food supplies in the cotyledons.

There have been lots of threads on seedlings doing poorly in coco. Some people have no issue, but I know a guy here that killed 45 seedlings before he finally switched over to a seed starter mix. Because of the high CEC (cation exchange capacity) coco tends to hang onto certain cations (positively charged ions) Na (sodium) happens to be one that is problematic for plants and sometimes, if the coco isn't prepared properly, Na will be released as certain other cations take it's place. I believe Ca and Mg can do that but don't quote me please.

So, if your seedlings continue to do poorly and before it gets critical, you might consider a transplant to a proper seed starting mix. Believe me...if you add nutrients, it will only get worse...
JD

PS Lights are OK for now.

Ok thank you, do you think that they look ok for the mean time? also how much water should i be giving them at a time Im feeding about 1ce every 24 hours and only about 15mk right on top of the seedling. Also are you saying that maybe calmag could fix the problem? Thanks for taking the time to reply

SG,
They're pretty small and it's hard to say really. They could be showing stunting but it's a little early to say.

No I did not say Calmag would help. You could water a little more. I don't really think you're going to overwater a seedling in that much coco.
JD

j dee gave you a lot of good info. your plants are 3 days old and you think you have slow growth? they're just breaking the surface, they're fine. as mentioned, don't feed. i usually start feeding 1/4 strength at around day 11 above surface. (for me, 1/4 strength is around 200-250 ppm.) some wait till they have 3 alternating internodes. it's good that you rinsed the coco first. i've found that even the supposedly "rinsed," coco needs rinsing. at this stage, you don't need to water very often. until the roots get established, there won't be much water used by the plants. do not give any cal-mag, or anything else. as mentioned, the cotyledons provide for the seedlings for a good 2 weeks. since you rinsed the coco first, you shouldn't have to worry about trans-planting out of your coco to something else. ph to 5.8.

My plants actually look like they are doing much better now in terms of growth I can notice a little bit in just the last couple of hours. However there is a little darkish purple mark on the underside of one of my first 2 emerging leaves.

Heres a pic

kind of hard to see but I was curious if this is something I should be worried about.


This is my current set up.

supergoo said:

My plants actually look like they are doing much better now in terms of growth I can notice a little bit in just the last couple of hours. However there is a little darkish purple mark on the underside of one of my first 2 emerging leaves.

Heres a pic

kind of hard to see but I was curious if this is something I should be worried about.
View attachment 2988352

This is my current set up.
View attachment 2988355

Click to expand...

Firstly stop stressing yourself.

Secondly. I'm a coco grower and have been for 4 years.
I pre charge my coco with EC 0.6. That's around 250ppm @.5 and around 350ppm @.7 scales.

I'll use EC 0.6 until around week2 then I'll up the strength.

Here's my seedlings at day 2 above ground.



IMO in coco with it being pretty much devoid of nutrition then you have to feed almost instantly.

If you rinse your coco then there is even more need to supply some nutrients early on as you'll be rinsing out the buffering agent which is generally calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.

If your coco was 480ppm out of the bag then to me that's absolutely find to pre charge with a 250-350ppm nute mix and plant seeds into.


B'CUZZ coco has a massively high EC straight out of the bag. 3.2EC. Around 1500-2100ppm. This kind definately needs rinsing prior to use.



If the FLORANOVA nutes your using dont have 5% Ca and 2% Mg or close to it then you'll need calmag.




J

Thanks for the replies guys. Jondamon since I didnt pre charge my coco, do you think I am safe to start adding calmag or even the flora if it has the right amount of cal and mg? The first 4 leaves have begun to show and she is sticking straight up about an inch from the soil now, all this growth has taken place in the last 6 hours or so, crazy. Im scared shitless of over nuting my plants and killing them, or slowing down the growth. Also how much should i be feeding them I know to keep the top inch or so from becoming to dry so right now I only put about 30ml of ph'd water on top of the plant. Should I mix a little calmag into about 4 ounces or so at about 250ppm stregnth and spread it around the top equally or should i continue to isolate my centralized feeding?

Floragrow-

Total Nitrogen (N).................................................2.0%
0.25% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1.75% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)...................................1.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O).............................................6.0%
Magnesium (Mg)...................................................0.5%
0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)

FloraMicro-

Total Nitrogen (N).................................................5.0%
0.3% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
4.7% Nitrate Nitrogen
Soluble Potash (K2O).............................................1.0%
Calcium (Ca)...........................................................5.0%
Boron (B) .............................................................0.01%
Cobalt (Co).......................................................0.0005%
Copper (Cu) .........................................................0.01%
0.01% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe).................................................................0.1%
0.1% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)..................................................0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)...........................................0.0008%
Zinc (Zn) ...........................................................0.015%
0.015% Chelated Zinc (Zn)


What do you think? And what stregnth. I think its saying 1/4tsp per gal.

I am a coco grower and in my opinion you should never give the plant a plain water feed. I suggest a very weak nute feed. This isn't for the plant but for the coco it's self. Giving it just water is essentially just removing the buffering agent from the media. Keep the coco moist at all times. Don't let it dry out too much.

I don't quite get why you would grow in coco on your first go-round,
soil is so much simpler and there are plenty if soul recipes on this site alone.
im not having a go at you or anything just wondering why you didn't get at least
a grow under your belt and get the basics down before you went on to more advanced
growing mediums? I actually use coco as a additive to my soil about 1/4 is coco, manure, high
quality potting soil, Lyme, seaweed, worm castings, worms, perlite, broken terracotta (for bottom of pot), eggshells. Playground sand and let it age for 3-4 weeks. I'd suggest you try soil first, just my personal opinion, you may get great results with coco your first grow but
I'd tend to start with the basics to start with. Cheers

supergoo said:

Floragrow-

Total Nitrogen (N).................................................2.0%
0.25% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1.75% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)...................................1.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O).............................................6.0%
Magnesium (Mg)...................................................0.5%
0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)

FloraMicro-

Total Nitrogen (N).................................................5.0%
0.3% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
4.7% Nitrate Nitrogen
Soluble Potash (K2O).............................................1.0%
Calcium (Ca)...........................................................5.0%
Boron (B) .............................................................0.01%
Cobalt (Co).......................................................0.0005%
Copper (Cu) .........................................................0.01%
0.01% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe).................................................................0.1%
0.1% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)..................................................0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)...........................................0.0008%
Zinc (Zn) ...........................................................0.015%
0.015% Chelated Zinc (Zn)


What do you think? And what stregnth. I think its saying 1/4tsp per gal.

Click to expand...

You may need a Mg supplement to bump up the % to about 2%.

Ca is fine at 5%.

Too much Ca will mimic an Mg deficiency.


Start out with 200-300ppms of the grow formulation ratio.


I started my first ever run in coco.

Its a fine medium to use as long as you understand a little about it.




J

JohnDee said:

supergoo,

No, don't add nutrients for a couple weeks. Some people say 3 weeks even. Seedlings have built in food supplies in the cotyledons.

There have been lots of threads on seedlings doing poorly in coco. Some people have no issue, but I know a guy here that killed 45 seedlings before he finally switched over to a seed starter mix. Because of the high CEC (cation exchange capacity) coco tends to hang onto certain cations (positively charged ions) Na (sodium) happens to be one that is problematic for plants and sometimes, if the coco isn't prepared properly, Na will be released as certain other cations take it's place. I believe Ca and Mg can do that but don't quote me please.

So, if your seedlings continue to do poorly and before it gets critical, you might consider a transplant to a proper seed starting mix. Believe me...if you add nutrients, it will only get worse...
JD

PS Lights are OK for now.

Click to expand...

I add gypsum to all my coco. The gypsum will attract, bond and replace Na with Ca. Its hard to leach out and aids in fungal support as sulfur is a food source in moderation. Also because of the CEC can be problematic for some, its a good idea to charge the coco with humates as they bond with metallic ions (Ca,Mg,Fe), this allows the grower a bit more flexibility with feeding and releases the Ca, Mg more easily. However Ca, Mg must remain included in regular nutrient.

jondamon said:

You may need a meg rain supplement.

Ca is fine at 5%.

Too much Ca will mimic an Mg deficiency.


Start out with 200-300ppms of the grow formulation ratio.


I started my first ever run in coco.

Its a fine medium to use as long as you understand a little about it.




J

Click to expand...

coco is naturally rich in K and ones nutrient program must compensate for that. Too much K will compete with Ca, Mg causing deficiency. 2% Nitrogen?????? Its also apparently worth noting a lack in N will cause a Mg deficiency.

Sorry to again post- Fucking lame ass editor wouldn't allow me to edit. lol. I would like to retract my above statement about the 2% and a deficiency in N. I tried to double check what I read and couldn't scroll up. So I felt the need to repost and comment.

tikitoker said:

coco is naturally rich in K and ones nutrient program must compensate for that. Too much K will compete with Ca, Mg causing deficiency. 2% Nitrogen?????? Its also apparently worth noting a lack in N will cause a Mg deficiency.

Click to expand...

After looking again I see K up around 7%. Yeah that's a bit much for coco.


My own nutes compensate for the coco with a 5-4-3 ratio.

You DEFINATELY don't need much K or P in your nutes.


I very rarely add much in the way of a PK booster using coco.


The extra nutes I've found most helpful to have on my shelves are mono Ca and mono Mg.



J

Hey guys thanks for all the replies you guys are the best. I included only two sets of Ingredients from florabloom and floramicro because that all that is used in the Lucas formula. I could also use all 3 which includes floragrow. Ill post the ingredients soon. My question from there is let's say I mix the right amount into a gallon jug of r/o water, how much of the water do I give each plant like should the entire gallon be used over the span of a week?

Also tiki, are you saying that the amount of N in the mix is decent or is it too little? I also just bought some Epsom salt but not sure if I should be using it with the flora products

I'm going to get some more pics up tonight and see if I can't convert this into a journal as I'm sure ill have a lot more questions along the way and need you guys to save me from doing anything to stupid lol.