Shroud of Turin
- Thread starter Mookjong
- Start date
vanillahub
Member
The older I become the more I question everything. Jesus & Buddha both are great teachers & both said many of the same things in their teachings. Truth is truth no matter where or who it comes from. 
BustinScales510
Well-Known Member
I saw a show on nat geo or something where they did make a similar recreation. It wasnt exact because the shroud of turin has 700 years of carbon degradation as well. It involved using some sort of acidic substance that left the phantom image on it
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
What if the truth is, that there is no truth? What if the only way to acquire truth is to pretend you have it, and even then you don't?The older I become the more I question everything. Jesus & Buddha both are great teachers & both said many of the same things in their teachings. Truth is truth no matter where or who it comes from.
That would be nuts.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Ohh.. ME RIKEY PARADOXES.
What you felt could very well have been placebo effect. You hold significance to the object, and your body reacts in the way it expects to when you come into 'contact' with it.
People who believe in nonsense like 'healing crystals' will commonly report pain going away even when illegitimate 'legitimate healers', use ordinary rocks off the ground to heal them, instead of "real" healing crystals.
The placebo effect is quite powerful.
Mookjong
Well-Known Member
I am unaware of the this proof that the shroud is indeed a fake. I was under the understanding that the Carbon14 test was still under question. Anyone feel like posting reference to this?
Actually after a quick google I've quite a few articles saying it's a fake. I guess I'm looking for a reputable source to be sighted.
Actually after a quick google I've quite a few articles saying it's a fake. I guess I'm looking for a reputable source to be sighted.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...ever read the Jataka Tales?
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
No i haven't Eye. What is it about? I may be interested in checking it out.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Thank you sworth =)
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...you'll get more into the whole story of Buddha. We usually only hear about his enlightenment, but rarely about 'the life and times of'. I think you'd enjoy
Saltrock
Active Member
It has been a while since I saw the video on the testing of the shroud. I remember them running tests on some fabric that located on the very edge. The fiber was dated to the 1300's, but they did a second look at the shroud and noticed it may have been resewn along the edges. Placing the resewn edges at a much later date(1300's). I am not sure what to believe, my gut says the whole shroud was created as a tool to validate christianity.
Peace
Salt
BustinScales510
Well-Known Member
Reputable could be subjective, I believe this article about the reproduction. The 1998 study they mention seems legit too, when three different labs (Oxford University,University of Arizona and Swiss Institute of Technology) all came up with 1260-1390.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1218457/Shroud-Turin-replica-proves-medieval-techniques-make-relic-say-scientists.html
The thing I dont understand, is even if it was the shroud that was layed on him when he died,why would it leave an impression on the cloth anyways? It was only on him like 3 days. Was it supposed to be the brilliance of his aura that etched his image into the cloth?
sworth
Well-Known Member
Strange you should say that about "Brilliance of his aura" , the nearest thing I can liken it to is a photograph...
Embalming oils could of made the impression. But then, in the Bible, they head off to sort Christ's body out with pounds and pounds of aloes, which are for healing, not embalming. So that opens another whole subject; was he even dead? Aaaargh!
(Shhh! Trimming,flushing, and religious trickery; all good troll bait!
)
Embalming oils could of made the impression. But then, in the Bible, they head off to sort Christ's body out with pounds and pounds of aloes, which are for healing, not embalming. So that opens another whole subject; was he even dead? Aaaargh!
(Shhh! Trimming,flushing, and religious trickery; all good troll bait!
)Wallstreeter43
Member
This will be the first and last time that I will be posting on this forum,and don't ask me to explain why.
it is incredible to see such incredibly ignorant posts about the shroud being posted here.
If you had bothered to research the over 300 peer reviewed research papers done on the shroud you wouldn't have made such a post that doesn't match the reality of shroud research.
lets get one thing cleared away. The 88 c14 tests were invalidated a long time ago, and it wasn't invalidated by a Christian scientist, but an agnostic scientist Ray Rogers, a chemist and senior fellow at Los alamos labs, whose paper can be found in the peer reviewed journal thermochimica acta. Not only did Rogers do a chemical analysis along with vanillin testing of the shroud but he also found madder dye, a very common dye used in the Middle Ages to dye newly added material to make it fit in with the older material. The weave of that corner didn't match the weave of the rest of the shroud. The corner that was c14 tested came up positive for vanillin which proved that it was a newer material that is most likely from the Middle Ages , but strands from the rest of the shroud tested negative for vanillin which make the shroud much much older then the c14 tests showed.
Remember Rogers isn't a Christian but an agnostic who stated on video that he doesn't believe in miracles.
that being said I'm going to give u a YouTube video that will get you some of the basic knowledge of what the sturp team of scientists have found from a doctor is in constant email contact with the STURP team.
buts I couldn't stop myself from laughing when I saw the post about embalming oils being able to cause that image. The image has 3d spatial information encoded into it. Some scientists suspected this this in the 1950's and 60's because of the way that the image seemed to disappear if you stood too close to it, but that theory was finally solved in the 1970's when scientists at NASA's net propulsion unit ran a picture of the shroud through a very sofisticated device called the vp8 image analyzer. The vp8 was used by NASA to map out the terrain of the surfaces of the moon and mars in 3d.
when you run any regular picture through the vp8 it will come out all mangled, but when they ran a picture of the shroud through it, it came out a perfect 3d image of a face and body of a crucified man. The shroud is the only 2d image on earth with 3d spatial information (height distance) encoded into it. This tells us that whatever event caused this image , it didn't cause it by body to cloth contact and dissipated after 2 inches.
The shroud also has X-ray information encoded into it in the hand and wrist region , part of the femur and part of the jaw and skull to the point where u can see the wrist and finger bones as well as the gum and teeth.
Atheists organizations have tried to replicate it but to no avail. Anyone who thinks embalming oils can cause an image like this obviously hasn't intellectually studied the shroud at all.
these are just some of the unique aspects of the shroud that make it one of the most scientifically studied objects on earth. I think this will get you guys pointed in the right direction. Now for the ones making silly statements comparing the shroud to a picture of Jesus on a peanut butter sandwich, nothing will relieve you of your ignorance. The shroud isn't for you . It's for honest seekers looking for the truth.
here is one of the best shroud of turin blogs out there. It's from Stephen Jones who has been studying the shroud for over 18 years.
http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/?m=1
here is a shroud presentation made by a doctor that has studied the shroud since the 1970's and is in constant email contact with the STURP team. The team of scientists that had 5 days alone with the shroud to have performed all sorts of tests on it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWkqEU
most people think the most amazing aspects of the shroud are just the shroud image, but if you watch this presentation closely, the blood clots reveal an amazing forensics evidence of who this shroud image is of.
ill give you a clue PRISTINE UNSMEARED BLOOD CLOTS, and ill let you figure out the rest from the video.
ok this should get you started on the shroud. If your an honest seeker what you will find will amaze you . If your a dogmatic head in the sand Jesus in a butter sandwich atheist , nothing can open your eyes , but one things for sure it will take years for you to study all the information that's available on the shroud. It took me 4 years and I'm still learning more myself.
Wait until my friends find out I'm posting about the shroud on a blunt smoking site hheheh
anyways take Carr all and be good and don't stop seeking.
my first and last post here
it is incredible to see such incredibly ignorant posts about the shroud being posted here.
If you had bothered to research the over 300 peer reviewed research papers done on the shroud you wouldn't have made such a post that doesn't match the reality of shroud research.
lets get one thing cleared away. The 88 c14 tests were invalidated a long time ago, and it wasn't invalidated by a Christian scientist, but an agnostic scientist Ray Rogers, a chemist and senior fellow at Los alamos labs, whose paper can be found in the peer reviewed journal thermochimica acta. Not only did Rogers do a chemical analysis along with vanillin testing of the shroud but he also found madder dye, a very common dye used in the Middle Ages to dye newly added material to make it fit in with the older material. The weave of that corner didn't match the weave of the rest of the shroud. The corner that was c14 tested came up positive for vanillin which proved that it was a newer material that is most likely from the Middle Ages , but strands from the rest of the shroud tested negative for vanillin which make the shroud much much older then the c14 tests showed.
Remember Rogers isn't a Christian but an agnostic who stated on video that he doesn't believe in miracles.
that being said I'm going to give u a YouTube video that will get you some of the basic knowledge of what the sturp team of scientists have found from a doctor is in constant email contact with the STURP team.
buts I couldn't stop myself from laughing when I saw the post about embalming oils being able to cause that image. The image has 3d spatial information encoded into it. Some scientists suspected this this in the 1950's and 60's because of the way that the image seemed to disappear if you stood too close to it, but that theory was finally solved in the 1970's when scientists at NASA's net propulsion unit ran a picture of the shroud through a very sofisticated device called the vp8 image analyzer. The vp8 was used by NASA to map out the terrain of the surfaces of the moon and mars in 3d.
when you run any regular picture through the vp8 it will come out all mangled, but when they ran a picture of the shroud through it, it came out a perfect 3d image of a face and body of a crucified man. The shroud is the only 2d image on earth with 3d spatial information (height distance) encoded into it. This tells us that whatever event caused this image , it didn't cause it by body to cloth contact and dissipated after 2 inches.
The shroud also has X-ray information encoded into it in the hand and wrist region , part of the femur and part of the jaw and skull to the point where u can see the wrist and finger bones as well as the gum and teeth.
Atheists organizations have tried to replicate it but to no avail. Anyone who thinks embalming oils can cause an image like this obviously hasn't intellectually studied the shroud at all.
these are just some of the unique aspects of the shroud that make it one of the most scientifically studied objects on earth. I think this will get you guys pointed in the right direction. Now for the ones making silly statements comparing the shroud to a picture of Jesus on a peanut butter sandwich, nothing will relieve you of your ignorance. The shroud isn't for you . It's for honest seekers looking for the truth.
here is one of the best shroud of turin blogs out there. It's from Stephen Jones who has been studying the shroud for over 18 years.
http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/?m=1
here is a shroud presentation made by a doctor that has studied the shroud since the 1970's and is in constant email contact with the STURP team. The team of scientists that had 5 days alone with the shroud to have performed all sorts of tests on it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWkqEU
most people think the most amazing aspects of the shroud are just the shroud image, but if you watch this presentation closely, the blood clots reveal an amazing forensics evidence of who this shroud image is of.
ill give you a clue PRISTINE UNSMEARED BLOOD CLOTS, and ill let you figure out the rest from the video.
ok this should get you started on the shroud. If your an honest seeker what you will find will amaze you . If your a dogmatic head in the sand Jesus in a butter sandwich atheist , nothing can open your eyes , but one things for sure it will take years for you to study all the information that's available on the shroud. It took me 4 years and I'm still learning more myself.
Wait until my friends find out I'm posting about the shroud on a blunt smoking site hheheh
anyways take Carr all and be good and don't stop seeking.
my first and last post here
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
However it was made, if – as many have claimed – the Shroud was made in the 13th century, then it isn't a relic of Christ, for obvious reasons. Radiocarbon dating has repeatedly placed the Shroud as medieval in origin – specifically, between 1260AD and 1390AD. There have been suggestions that the radiocarbon process got it wrong – but this is unlikely, according to Professor Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, one of three labs which carried out the research. "We're pretty confident in the radiocarbon dates," he told me. "There are various hypotheses as to why the dates might not be correct, but none of them stack up.This will be the first and last time that I will be posting on this forum,and don't ask me to explain why.
it is incredible to see such incredibly ignorant posts about the shroud being posted here.
If you had bothered to research the over 300 peer reviewed research papers done on the shroud you wouldn't have made such a post that doesn't match the reality of shroud research.
lets get one thing cleared away. The 88 c14 tests were invalidated a long time ago, and it wasn't invalidated by a Christian scientist, but an agnostic scientist Ray Rogers, a chemist and senior fellow at Los alamos labs, whose paper can be found in the peer reviewed journal thermochimica acta. Not only did Rogers do a chemical analysis along with vanillin testing of the shroud but he also found madder dye, a very common dye used in the Middle Ages to dye newly added material to make it fit in with the older material. The weave of that corner didn't match the weave of the rest of the shroud. The corner that was c14 tested came up positive for vanillin which proved that it was a newer material that is most likely from the Middle Ages , but strands from the rest of the shroud tested negative for vanillin which make the shroud much much older then the c14 tests showed.
Remember Rogers isn't a Christian but an agnostic who stated on video that he doesn't believe in miracles.
that being said I'm going to give u a YouTube video that will get you some of the basic knowledge of what the sturp team of scientists have found from a doctor is in constant email contact with the STURP team.
buts I couldn't stop myself from laughing when I saw the post about embalming oils being able to cause that image. The image has 3d spatial information encoded into it. Some scientists suspected this this in the 1950's and 60's because of the way that the image seemed to disappear if you stood too close to it, but that theory was finally solved in the 1970's when scientists at NASA's net propulsion unit ran a picture of the shroud through a very sofisticated device called the vp8 image analyzer. The vp8 was used by NASA to map out the terrain of the surfaces of the moon and mars in 3d.
when you run any regular picture through the vp8 it will come out all mangled, but when they ran a picture of the shroud through it, it came out a perfect 3d image of a face and body of a crucified man. The shroud is the only 2d image on earth with 3d spatial information (height distance) encoded into it. This tells us that whatever event caused this image , it didn't cause it by body to cloth contact and dissipated after 2 inches.
The shroud also has X-ray information encoded into it in the hand and wrist region , part of the femur and part of the jaw and skull to the point where u can see the wrist and finger bones as well as the gum and teeth.
Atheists organizations have tried to replicate it but to no avail. Anyone who thinks embalming oils can cause an image like this obviously hasn't intellectually studied the shroud at all.
these are just some of the unique aspects of the shroud that make it one of the most scientifically studied objects on earth. I think this will get you guys pointed in the right direction. Now for the ones making silly statements comparing the shroud to a picture of Jesus on a peanut butter sandwich, nothing will relieve you of your ignorance. The shroud isn't for you . It's for honest seekers looking for the truth.
here is one of the best shroud of turin blogs out there. It's from Stephen Jones who has been studying the shroud for over 18 years.
http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/?m=1
here is a shroud presentation made by a doctor that has studied the shroud since the 1970's and is in constant email contact with the STURP team. The team of scientists that had 5 days alone with the shroud to have performed all sorts of tests on it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKTkjWkqEU
most people think the most amazing aspects of the shroud are just the shroud image, but if you watch this presentation closely, the blood clots reveal an amazing forensics evidence of who this shroud image is of.
ill give you a clue PRISTINE UNSMEARED BLOOD CLOTS, and ill let you figure out the rest from the video.
ok this should get you started on the shroud. If your an honest seeker what you will find will amaze you . If your a dogmatic head in the sand Jesus in a butter sandwich atheist , nothing can open your eyes , but one things for sure it will take years for you to study all the information that's available on the shroud. It took me 4 years and I'm still learning more myself.
Wait until my friends find out I'm posting about the shroud on a blunt smoking site hheheh
anyways take Carr all and be good and don't stop seeking.
my first and last post here
"One is that the samples were contaminated. But that doesn't work, because to make an 2,000-year-old object appear just 800 years old, about half the material would have to be contaminant, and that's if it was all modern. If it was older, it would have to be even more. Various tests done at the time of the original measurements also suggested that the material was fairly pure. It's also been hypothesised that the patch we tested was a modern repair, but most of us agree that's implausible, because the weave is very unusual and matches the rest of the shroud perfectly. Then there are more complicated notions, like contamination with carbon monoxide, but tests have shown that carbon monoxide doesn't react with the fabric under the circumstances that you might expect."
Wallstreeter43
Member
Ok I'll break my promise one again. Beef no one is even talking about contamination here.
you obviously skimmed over the peer reviewed research of agnostic chemist ray Rogers.
no one is talking contamination here. What's been proven by Rogers is that what was tested wasn't part of the original shroud, it is part of a reweave. Pleaseeeee do some actual research on the shroud, the positive and negatives. If you did you would also know that the people in charge of the c14 testing (not the labs, it the actual people put in charge of setting the tests up) you will see that they violated 13 protocols that should have Ben taken care of before hand, one of the basic protocols is chemical analysis of the test pieces to make sure they are indicative of the whole relic in question. STURP. suggested these protocols and the people put in charge of them ignored STURP.
rogers in his peer reviewed rearch showed that the c14 piece was much much younger then the rest of the shroud. This isn't disputable as it took 7 rigorous months of peer review before his research was accepted.
beef at least you took the time to do some basic research, now go over to Stephen jones blog or shroud.com and research both sides to see why science favors authenticity compellingly when it comes to the shroud.
at least you show willingness to start looking into it, unlike the guy I responded to who ignorantly posted his unscientific opinions about the shroud then makes some sneezy remarks about religious relics and then hypocritically calling me a dik for calling him out on his ignorant snide remarks.
i promise you once you start researching, you will become obsessed with the shroud, and it will have a profound impact on your search for truth.
i suspect your intelligent and open minded enough to start that search when your ready , unlike the mentally challenged remarks of a certain person I replied to. Ok I'm really gone now poof I disappeared just like the bankrupt worldview of atheism lol.