Should I flush? Harvest? Need Help. Lotsa Pictures.

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thinkingreen

Member
Facts: Started flower July 20'ish. 3 different strains of indica, bagseed. GH Nutes. My first grow ever.

I think have ~80-90% cloudy trichs. I haven't flushed yet, should I flush now? I'm not sure when this is ready for harvest.....

Plant 1
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Plant 2
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Plant 3
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stuckonsticky

stuckonsticky

Well-Known Member
Those look bomb for your first grow..as far as being ready..you should deffinitly flush em..even if they went another two weeks the clean h two o is essential.to a clean end product
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
Hello thinkingreen,

It really depends on your personal preference (since you are the one who's going to smoke the bud I presume ^^).
What kind of effect do you like?

The trichomes will change from clear to cloudy and finally to amber/red (even purple/blue sometimes) which is a sign of maturity.
If you harvest when they are clear you will not get a very strong high presumably (there are some strain which still can produce copious amounts of THC when clear and going to cloudy).
People who harvest when they are cloudy (about 30%-80%) will get a very head-high effect compared to people who harvest when they have 10%-50% amber trichs, which will give you a more of a couch-lock high.

It really all comes down the the strains and the trichs.
Do you have a preference?

I would suggest you harvest ASAP if you like a more head-high / energetic high from your smoke, I'm not sure if being that close to going amber will have already turned them to a more couch-lock effect that again depends on several things.
 
stuckonsticky

stuckonsticky

Well-Known Member
Lop a little nug off and in three days youll know when you smoke it if its ready...thats what i did just yesterday..cant hurt...but as far as amber trichs go the oaksterdam u course book says thats a sign of degrading thc turning into cbd
 
woodsmaneh!

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
:clap:I don't flush and I grow in dirt and RDWC, if you want to learn about flushing read on.


I put the summery first, It is also backed up by science links attached.


Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest. Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.


Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavour of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulphur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Trans-location:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements can’t be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins; most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulphur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or over fertilization and improper drying/curing.
 
stuckonsticky

stuckonsticky

Well-Known Member
Heres my bottom line..i dont flush and its harsh on the exhale..i do flush and its much better...according to the oaksterdam u course book and i quote " to imrove flavor of the final product use unfertalized water for the last several days..the fan leafs will yellow and wither as the remaining nitrogen migrates from old growth to the new growth..as a result the buds have less of a minty chlorophyll taste. They loose the chemical taste of fertalized bud."
I guess its personal preference
plus we arent trying to keep it going at this point we are preparing it to die within ten days..
 
I

irieie

Well-Known Member
i would start flushing and harvest in 7-10 days. i always flush and i use gh aswell. i have fed to the end with gh and the bud does not taste very nice. i dont feel like searching for some bullshit copy and paste to persuade you, but you shouldnt beleive anything you read anyway. just try it for yourself and see. killer buds btw +rep.
 
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thinkingreen

Member
Thanks a lot guys, so much information. Right now they're clear going on 100% cloudy. I prefer closer to max potency, so a little more time is needed. I'm also convinced flushing will help with taste, maybe a flush 5-6 days prior to chopping will do it. Just for experiment sake, I'll try feeding #3 until the end, she's underfed anyway.....
 
k0ijn

k0ijn

Scientia Cannabis
thinkingreen said:
Thanks a lot guys, so much information. Right now they're clear going on 100% cloudy. I prefer closer to max potency, so a little more time is needed. I'm also convinced flushing will help with taste, maybe a flush 5 days prior to chopping will do it. Just for experiment sake, I'll try feeding #3 until the end.
Click to expand...
If you prefer the max potency you should harvest at about 50-70% amber some strains however do not do well with 70% + amber, CBD takes haste and the potency changes.
Flushing does improve taste according to my own experience, however the largest improvement lies in the harshness of the smoke, flushing helps this considerably.
The fact that you are willing to experiment and choose a scientific approach with different conditions for each plant shows you have a proper growing mentality :joint:
 
obijohn

obijohn

Well-Known Member
I agree that flushing does little to nothing, and it hurts the plants to flush one and 2 weeks before harvest. Before I harvest, maybe 2 or 3 days before is run lots of water thru, then water with some molasses last few days. I'm still not convinced that doing that does anything for the taste or size, but it doesnt hurt.

The clorophyl taste and smell will be converted to sugars and broken down if slow dried and cured correctly. That is what affects taste and smoothness

At any rate your buds are looking good, probly ready in another week or 2
 
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