Can a concentrate lover please tell me the difference between shatter and sap? The sap I makes slightly bends but still snaps.. The shatter doesn't bend and snaps instantly. Does anyone know if hotter temperature times achieve one over the other? Please help me out because sometimes I get one over the other on accident. Thanks and also any other wax input share, lets get a thread going on sap n shatter.
Shatter Vs Sap
- Thread starter chef oli
- Start date
Dogenzengi
Well-Known Member
What method of extraction are you using?
Describe your process.
BHO or ISO?
Do you decarb, grind, heat, winterize etc?
Describe your process.
BHO or ISO?
Do you decarb, grind, heat, winterize etc?
Sirdabsalot462
Well-Known Member
As long as temps stay under the 120° sap and shatter consistencies will be strain dependent.
Higher temps will turn your oil into a goop, very sappppppyyy with loss of aroma and flavor.
Pull and snap is one of my favorites.
Higher temps will turn your oil into a goop, very sappppppyyy with loss of aroma and flavor.
Pull and snap is one of my favorites.
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
The starting carboxylic acid form is hard and brittle at room temperature and often referred to as shatter.
When you decarboxylate it with heat, or it loses its carboxyl group as a natural function of drying, or through the application of heat, it is no longer hard and brittle, but a resin.
If you leave solvent in it, it can also be resinous, so if you are positive that you are fully purged, that I would guess you have a partially decarboxylated extract, which runs from shatter, through hard taffy, down to loose oil.
terrapin420247
Member
If I keep my purge temps between 90 and 105, with a full vac (my guage pins out at 30), after the winterization process, would i risk decarbing at any point unless I ran too long after the polar solvent bubbles stopped and the solvent was purged(i winterize with etoh 190)? I was worried about vaccing my winterized stuff, because I dont wanna damage terps and as much as id love to just air dry for weeks or more, Im curious what the minimum I can get away with in a polar solvent vac purge in order to keep my product tasting its best, and still become an absolute shatter. My first attempts were with one batch that may have been decarbed a bit in a primary butane vac purge by reaching temps above 130 , but i have since moved to hotplates instead of griddles and acheived a perfect 105F and can even go a bit lower with my chamber in a water bath, and have winterized some higher quality matierial and still only got it to a sap after 3 days of air drying on blades in a dehumidified room , under a fan as well.Before i begin to winterize my high grade runs that i have sitting, I really want to get my method of drying down . I know qwizoking talks about no heat, and fans but whats the next best way without waiting weeks? If I thin-film vac purged the winterized oil, after air drying to a sap consistensy, at 95F , how long do you think before id risk pulling terps or decarbing?What about a bleed-off valve to lower my Hg to something below full vac but just enough to pull solvent bubbles at 95F? Just trying to get there and still be as delicate as i can on the product! Was thinking of using a misting bottle to mist the winterized oil onto oil slick pads or parchment then doing a vac purge at just above 90F might be the most delicate i can get but not very efficient . What about using dessicant boxes with airflow where the thin-film is near a dessicant at room temperature ? All things i am unsure of since I have yet to make a true absolute....
Also when you say it can decarb as a natural function of drying... what steps can be taken to avoid this problem, and are you referring to the drying of the flowers? Or the drying of the extracted oil? Or both? We keep most of what we run in a room with a more or less constant dehumidification , not 24/7 but close , due to living in a high humidity area. Could we be possibly decarbing the material by over drying?
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
There seems to be no end of favorite techniques, but I've had the most success with using a temperature where the resin puddle is a liquid, so the bubbles can readily escape under -29.5" Hg vacuum. That seems to be around 115F.
95F is more suited to making wax, than rapid purge.
Because the monoterpenes all have high vapor pressures, you are losing them even at room temperature. More heat or vacuum, just speed that up,
The Joker in the deck, is that when we concentrate the cannabinoids, we also concentrate the terpenes. Some of them are harsh, expectorants, and not all that tasty in heavy concentration, so for best flavor you want to retain enough monoterpenes, but not too too many.
As far as decarbing goes, keeping the material frozen slows down the decarboxylation rate, but carboxylic acid forms are highly unstable and will sublimate away the COOH group over time, in a freezer as well.
Over drying will at least partially decarboxylate the material. Fresh frozen, to 25% moisture content is where we get the best terpene profiles and highest carboxylic acid retention.