Severe drooping, curling, and browning of leaves. Underwatered? Please help

C

collision666

Member
It's my first grow, one white widow and one skunk #1 from seed. Plants are three weeks old and are in 2/3 FFOF and 1/3 perlite in solo cups under a 400w MH about 15 inches away in aircooled hood. 24hrs light, low 70's and mid 20% humidity. 6.5 ph well water with no nutes yet

I was watering every three days until the skunk started to droop at the end of the second night. I decided to water because it seemed dry and it started to perk back up by morning. The next day the skunk leaves were curled back under so I watered again. It kind of perked up again but was far from having flat leaves. I got worried that I was now overwatering the plants because the skunk wasn't fully returning to normal so I decided to really let them dry out. By the second day of no water, yesterday, the leaves on the widow and the skunk were pretty droopy but the soil still seemed damp so I decided to wait another day. This morning the skunk it droopier and the widow looks terrible. Its leaves are drooped down and curled against the stem and are starting to lose color and brown. I watered a few hours ago and neither plant has shown any signs of improvement.

I'm thinking that I severle\y underwatered them and the leaves are getting cooked. The widow leaves are really losing their color. They feel a little dry to the touch. How long does it take to see signs of overwatering? I don't think that is my problem because it took a day after watering for the leaves to curl. I'm also thinking the plants could be getting root bound. They've been in the solo cups for 17 days.

No problems for the first two weeks and now they're looking worse every day. Please help! First pic is skunk #1, second pic is white widow


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J

jackmac

Active Member
collision666 said:
It's my first grow, one white widow and one skunk #1 from seed. Plants are three weeks old and are in 2/3 FFOF and 1/3 perlite in solo cups under a 400w MH about 15 inches away in aircooled hood. 24hrs light, low 70's and mid 20% humidity. 6.5 ph well water with no nutes yet

I was watering every three days until the skunk started to droop at the end of the second night. I decided to water because it seemed dry and it started to perk back up by morning. The next day the skunk leaves were curled back under so I watered again. It kind of perked up again but was far from having flat leaves. I got worried that I was now overwatering the plants because the skunk wasn't fully returning to normal so I decided to really let them dry out. By the second day of no water, yesterday, the leaves on the widow and the skunk were pretty droopy but the soil still seemed damp so I decided to wait another day. This morning the skunk it droopier and the widow looks terrible. Its leaves are drooped down and curled against the stem and are starting to lose color and brown. I watered a few hours ago and neither plant has shown any signs of improvement.

I'm thinking that I severle\y underwatered them and the leaves are getting cooked. The widow leaves are really losing their color. They feel a little dry to the touch. How long does it take to see signs of overwatering? I don't think that is my problem because it took a day after watering for the leaves to curl. I'm also thinking the plants could be getting root bound. They've been in the solo cups for 17 days.

No problems for the first two weeks and now they're looking worse every day. Please help! First pic is skunk #1, second pic is white widow


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You really shouldn't be having these kinds of problems, but I'm seeing quite a few people with difficulties having seedlings in FFOF - I haven't looked at the specs, but I reckon that stuff is for mature plants, isn't it? It could be too much water though, you've put a lot of perlite in and that has a very large surface area/volume ratio - it holds a lot of moisture - and I reckon you've put 10-15% too much in the mix. If you grow in soil then start your seeds in a potting compost for seeds and cuttings - then pot on in different medium when more mature - they love a re-pot......
 
Nmccray420

Nmccray420

Member
Try using a foiler spray instead of watering all the time. Like Jackmac said re-pot also... might wanna do that first and fast
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
Nmccray420 said:
Try using a foiler spray instead of watering all the time. Like Jackmac said re-pot also... might wanna do that first and fast
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Yeah, and I reckon, looking at it again, that there's signs of over watering - have the pots got adequate drainage? How much water do you add each time?

ps the plants will be fine - they're not that bad - but need to change something simple....
 
C

collision666

Member
The cups have five holes in the bottom and a few in the sides near the bottom. I water each plant with a little less than 1/2 cup water and get about a tablespoon worth drainage. The widow only started drooping after not being watered for two days. Is that how long it usually takes for overwatering symptoms to show up? I thought I could have been giving them too much water but they really started to droop bad after an extra day of no water. I've never sprayed them so I'll def give that a try. I do have some 1 gal pots that I can re-plant into. Should I just use less perlite with the FFOF? I was worried about how they'd take the shock from re-potting because of the rough shape they currently are in... Thanks for the replys!
 
zack66

zack66

Well-Known Member
20% humidity in veg is awful low. I try and keep 50-60% humidity in veg. See if you can bring it up some it may help with some of your issues.
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
collision666 said:
The cups have five holes in the bottom and a few in the sides near the bottom. I water each plant with a little less than 1/2 cup water and get about a tablespoon worth drainage. The widow only started drooping after not being watered for two days. Is that how long it usually takes for overwatering symptoms to show up? I thought I could have been giving them too much water but they really started to droop bad after an extra day of no water. I've never sprayed them so I'll def give that a try. I do have some 1 gal pots that I can re-plant into. Should I just use less perlite with the FFOF? I was worried about how they'd take the shock from re-potting because of the rough shape they currently are in... Thanks for the replys!
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OK, so drainage ok - can you lift the pots and tell how much water they're holding? Is the soil wet to touch on top? All through? Think about how little that plant's root system is and how you want to make it reach for water - those tiny roots will eke out the tiniest amount of moisture...lift your pots to check weight and put fingers in the top around the edges - as deep as your finger goes - let us know
 
C

collision666

Member
jackmac said:
ps the plants will be fine - they're not that bad - but need to change something simple....
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Thanks, I def needed to hear that! The plants look so bad compared to what they looked like a few days ago. I really want to figure out what I need to change, I have been searching the forums for days and haven't seen a plant with leaves curling as much as and discoloring like mine.

It seems like the soil towards the bottom of the cup is compacted. I wonder if water is getting held up down there and not giving the roots proper oxygen. My humidity is steady in the 25%-35% range. I have problems keeping it constant above that
 
PinkGorilla

PinkGorilla

Active Member
Bigger pots for me and less perlite as someone already mentioned...... On top of that spraying is a good idea and don't water until every 2/3 days but give light sprayings in between. ;)
 
C

collision666

Member
jackmac said:
OK, so drainage ok - can you lift the pots and tell how much water they're holding? Is the soil wet to touch on top? All through? Think about how little that plant's root system is and how you want to make it reach for water - those tiny roots will eke out the tiniest amount of moisture...lift your pots to check weight and put fingers in the top around the edges - as deep as your finger goes - let us know
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I watered this morning so they are damp, but not soaked, now. When I watered today the soil felt dry for the first about 1.5 inches but when picking up the cup the it did feel like there was definitley still water in the bottom. I was thinking of letting the soil dry out more but but the widow really drooped overnight. I feared that I was underwatering, especially with the way the leaves were browning. The time before that was three days ago and once again the soin at the top 1-1.5 inches felt dry but the bottom of the cup seemed heavy.

How long after overwatering does it take for symptoms to show up? It took two full days for the widow to start to droop and by the am of the third it was totally curled under. I guess I assumed that the symptoms whould have shown up sooner after watering
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
collision666 said:
I watered this morning so they are damp, but not soaked, now. When I watered today the soil felt dry for the first about 1.5 inches but when picking up the cup the it did feel like there was definitley still water in the bottom. I was thinking of letting the soil dry out more but but the widow really drooped overnight. I feared that I was underwatering, especially with the way the leaves were browning. The time before that was three days ago and once again the soin at the top 1-1.5 inches felt dry but the bottom of the cup seemed heavy.

How long after overwatering does it take for symptoms to show up? It took two full days for the widow to start to droop and by the am of the third it was totally curled under. I guess I assumed that the symptoms whould have shown up sooner after watering
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Right. It's too wet. No need to re-pot - just leave them till the point when you lift the pot doesn't feel like that - you understand what I mean. If you think it's seriously compacted then take it out and repot it in the same pot - you could even spread out the wet medium on some newspaper to take a bit of moisture out of it for half an hour or so....that's your call on how wet it is vs how long it will take to dry as it is vs take out, dry medium and re-pot - which one will be best and least stress for the plant - and you!

Underwatering symptoms are very straightforward - the soil will be bone dry, the plants leaves will begin to droop and hang limply by the side of the plant, the tip will go limp and flop over - the leaves will only go brown and crispy if you leave it like that with no water. Over watering is what you've done. Now you know the difference -
 
C

collision666

Member
jackmac said:
Underwatering symptoms are very straightforward - the soil will be bone dry, the plants leaves will begin to droop and hang limply by the side of the plant, the tip will go limp and flop over - the leaves will only go brown and crispy if you leave it like that with no water. Over watering is what you've done. Now you know the difference -
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That is probably the most straight forward explanation of over and underwatering I have read. Makes perfect sense to me. I was just going to ask if I should let them dry out before re-pot. After reading many grow journals and troubleshooting posts I was pretty confident I understood when to water. Obviously I was wrong. I must have started to slightly overwater and thought it was a little dry and then really overwatered. I also thought the reason the leaves felt kind of dry and were browning was due to lack of water.


What really threw me off was that it took almost three days of not watering for the drooping symptoms to show up. Is this common?
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
collision666 said:
That is probably the most straight forward explanation of over and underwatering I have read. Makes perfect sense to me. I was just going to ask if I should let them dry out before re-pot. After reading many grow journals and troubleshooting posts I was pretty confident I understood when to water. Obviously I was wrong. I must have started to slightly overwater and thought it was a little dry and then really overwatered. I also thought the reason the leaves felt kind of dry and were browning was due to lack of water.


What really threw me off was that it took almost three days of not watering for the drooping symptoms to show up. Is this common?
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Well, the over takes longer to show than the under - it's like you - you can hold your breath under water for a little while - after that little while your functions start misbehaving - then you die - if you don't take a breath. Exactly the same if you don't drink fluids - if it was underwatering then when you watered your plants would recover within the hour and look perky again. It's a method of light stressing you can use to your advantage - wait for your plant to droop through lack of water and then give it a half litre or whatever it needs - it's great to watch the plant suck up the water and put on a spurt - just like you downing a lovely cold lemonade on a hot summer day....not recommended for beginners though!

Let us know what happens/what you do

Cheers
 
C

collision666

Member
Ok. I was thinking that if it was underwatered the leaves would have perked up quickly, but they def did not. Since watering this morning everything pretty much looks the same.

So I just drilled about a dozen more holes in my solo cups and poked a pencil down into the soil trying to get some more air into it. I am going to give it a little bit and see how well it's drying in a few hours. Hopefully this helps. Thanks for the advice! I'll keep this updated
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
collision666 said:
Ok. I was thinking that if it was underwatered the leaves would have perked up quickly, but they def did not. Since watering this morning everything pretty much looks the same.

So I just drilled about a dozen more holes in my solo cups and poked a pencil down into the soil trying to get some more air into it. I am going to give it a little bit and see how well it's drying in a few hours. Hopefully this helps. Thanks for the advice! I'll keep this updated
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Is the soil wet at the bottom?
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
collision666 said:
Yes it is. It's damp all the way through
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Cool. You've been diagnosed and the prognosis is good! Just make sure you moderate your watering regime from now on - as the plants get bigger, they will drink more. You've got common sense - you'll succeed...Good luck - give us an update when you feel inclined

Cheers!
 
Nizza

Nizza

Well-Known Member
maybe your soil is too compact therefore more waterings flushed out the old icky water. giving it 3 days of no water change may have allowed the water to become stagnant, maybe causing root rot. take it from the pot carefully and inspect it. some people do a h202 solution and cut off anything that isnt white , all the brown roots must go. to avoid this happening again allow more air to get to your soil perhaps with air pruning pots, or just mix the soil better. i had some stuff that looked like that because it was severely overwatered
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
Nizza said:
maybe your soil is too compact therefore more waterings flushed out the old icky water. giving it 3 days of no water change may have allowed the water to become stagnant, maybe causing root rot. take it from the pot carefully and inspect it. some people do a h202 solution and cut off anything that isnt white , all the brown roots must go. to avoid this happening again allow more air to get to your soil perhaps with air pruning pots, or just mix the soil better. i had some stuff that looked like that because it was severely overwatered
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It's just too much water. That's all - and only for a few days - no root rot or the like to worry about. You said it in the end: i had some stuff that looked like that because it was severely overwatered

Game over
 
Relaxed

Relaxed

Well-Known Member
use the weight of the pot trick on water. note how heavy they weight when you just watered them. by the way, when you water them water good till you notice a good amount of water leaving the pot. None of the I barely watered them. If you did that I bet you didnt ge t the entire pot wet. For dixie cup size water about day 4 or 5 would be normal for me. You could upsize em and they may spring out of it. Learn from each grow for the next one. Id also go to 18 hrs. veg. they need to sleep like in nature.
 
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