chuckbane
New Member
whoa man! thats what a society is about,, helping eachother.
but i guess all that selfishness and greed out there has gotten to your mind too
money is not liberty. you need a better definition for that word pal.
Settle For Nothing
- Thread starter chuckbane
- Start date
but i guess all that selfishness and greed out there has gotten to your mind too
chuckbane
New Member
privatization. now there is an idea that has proven to be shit for every application. And its funny how you say it "is a giant pyramid scheme" because thats what privatization of public services will mean. and then soon enough only the rich will live a decent life, and all the rest just meager.
kind of fucks up that equality thing i keep talking about.. ever heard of it?
clearly you havent
chuckbane
New Member
the most intelligent thing i have heard from you. congrats
chuckbane
New Member
Great way to vote! that way you never get who you want!
AND LOOK, you just settled for nothing. THATS THE NAME OF THE THREAD! how applicable
make sure you know i have never once pushed for obama, and i have said it a few places that they are both fucked
I heave a right to keep what I earn. Having my earnings immediately stolen from me and redistributed means I am a slave. I have no choice in the matter. Families of people in need should band together and become strong supportive units. It is not my duty to save every broken heart or disabled person.
This stuff is very conditional for me. Lets say the troops come home for Iraq and they get on some gov program to help them heal, cope with life etc. I say fuck that I don't wanna pay. That isnt my war, and it was complete bullshit from the beginning. Its unfortunate so many are wasting their time and lives in some foreign country. On the other hand, if, lets say a shitload of Americans are in trouble somewhere and war breaks out to save them. When those troops come home and need assistance, I just wanna give it all up to those brave American heros. There is a difference.
Social Security to me is like the shitty version of things I don' t want to pay for, and I don't really. But if we werent getting fucked from every direction, maybe I wouldnt have such a firm grasp on my wad.
This stuff is very conditional for me. Lets say the troops come home for Iraq and they get on some gov program to help them heal, cope with life etc. I say fuck that I don't wanna pay. That isnt my war, and it was complete bullshit from the beginning. Its unfortunate so many are wasting their time and lives in some foreign country. On the other hand, if, lets say a shitload of Americans are in trouble somewhere and war breaks out to save them. When those troops come home and need assistance, I just wanna give it all up to those brave American heros. There is a difference.
Social Security to me is like the shitty version of things I don' t want to pay for, and I don't really. But if we werent getting fucked from every direction, maybe I wouldnt have such a firm grasp on my wad.
chuckbane
New Member
you are completely missing the point here. society is about helping eachother. Sure you may not be disabled and you may feel like your money is being "stolen" when it is given to another person but the day may come when you are disabled and unable to work and then you will be thanking society for taking everyones money so that you are able to continue on living without the support of family. Not to mention not everyone has family.
For instance, if I myself got sick and was unable to work I would be screwed because I have no family to take care of me and my woman definately doesnt make enough to keep my ass living and herself. Not to mention there is no way in hell i would want to put that burden on the love of my life.
taxes are neccessary for a society to function properly and if you take a good hard look the countries that tax their citizens out the ass (such as Canada) have an overall better quality of life for the citizens.
Canada's economy (even though in a slump) is still doing better than the U.S.
Even our life expectancy at birth is considerably higher than the U.S.
You need to learn that just because you are not using some of the services that are propvided by the government doesnt mean others are not. Also, you may, one day, need to use these services, and if you keep up this attitiude these pertinent services will no longer be availible.
We all live in a UNITED society where the "strong" help the "weak" so everyone can feel equal.
I'm not saying everyone should live the same, make the same money and all that jazz but money should not be used to buy a higher quality of life, such as better health care.
Everyone has THE RIGHT to be healthy, not just the rich.
The mentality that you are putting off is that only the "hard working" people deserve a good life. You may think that the people who make minimum wage are just plain lazy but you would not be right with that assumption in all cases.
You may have had an easy life and never have had to use services such as unemployment insurance, disability, extended health care, but many have because they didnt have it so easy in their life.
We can't expect everyone to be the same because we are not. But we deserve to be treated that way and we all deserve to live a good life.
Take your riches and buy luxuries, because you do deserve it. But you dont deserve a better quality of life.
Think about that long and hard.. I dont need a retort, so don't feel pressured into making one because you need to "win" the argument.
I understand where you are coming from because I too used to think the same way. I thought I could always fend for myself and I would never need any type of assistance. But, for instance, when our economy hit the rocks and i was laid off due to shortage of work my governement was right there to make sure I was able to survive. They didnt give me much more money than i needed to survive, but i was able to continue living in my home and was able to stay off the streets.
Think about this long and hard like i said. Put yourself in a situation you have not yet encountered. A situation where you need help but can't afford the right kind.
Think how you would feel.
Believe me, I can use empathy. Some people must cringe when I write some of this stuff. I am a United States constitutionist. Here in the US we do not have a right to health, although healthcare should not cost an arm and a leg. It's tough to explain the way I think the world ought to be, because im in the fish bowl. Im in this fucked up situation we are all in and at this point, I feel it safer to resort back to a strict constitution. We are guaranteed the right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness in the United States. I understand what you are saying, but you have to understand that I do not place a ton of value in saving every life that needs assistance to save. I believe in Survival of the fittest, the continuance of progressive evolution. Saving the weak that nobody cares about helps one but hinders others. I am not religious and I don't think life is sacred. I know this sounds harsh.... sorry. Im not trying to win, on this specific subject of social programs, we disagree. I agree with a ton of shit you wrote in this post though, and we can disagree all day long on social programs. If we were not getting assfucked in every other way, maybe I wouldn't have a problem with social programs. but at this point, in the fishbowl, I see these social programs as giving power, my financial power and every other Americans over to another buarocrat to skim off the top and waste frivilously. The needy get the left-overs. Thats just my two bongrips chuck. One day I may need the help, but I promise if it wasn't there id still find a way. Im a survivor.
chuckbane
New Member
Its tough to explain because you do not have an explanation. Maybe you are too in love with your country and the "righteousness" bombarded at you.
I'm not saying this angerly at all, i know EXACTLY where your mind is right now.
I'm am just trying to explain the simplicity of it. You believe what you SHOULD believe. And most of the times it the people like you who are the hardest to change their mind. Afterall, something already has a hold of your mind. And its got a tight grip.
Healthcare should be free because it would make life better. You are working selfishly, you only want to better yourself. This is a massive exaggeration but if everyone gave all their money to a government that followed very simple (at the same time complex, but simple to follow) guideline life would be so much better. If they spent all the money right we wouldn't even need money, we could just work together having the government organize.
But i guess im just a dreamer.
It could be done, but most of us are just too selfish. the same selfish character you are exhibititng.
What fucked up situation?
Safer? What are you afraid of?
Than your mind is still living in the dark ages on this. We live in a world where the smart survive. The age of information. Where have you been for the past 100 years?
Likewise, im sure i have given you rep b4, and wanted to give it to you again, but yes, we do disagree, i hope i can change your mind because i do know of a better way.
There is that word survive. Ccodiane used that word. I dont want to have to survive, I want to be able to just live.
You don't know exactly where my mind is, I can tell from your response. The reason its tough to explain is because other factors contribute to my beliefs on socialism. Factors like the healthcare system being owned and operated by profiteers. A government that does not represent me. Yes, if we had a perfect government, I can see contributing to these social programs, but thats what makes it tough, we have a very fucked up government, and thats the fucked up situation im talking about that im in and everyone is in. Today I consider the fittest the smartest, we agree there. Im talking fittest in all aspects. Even in the dark ages it paid to be strong AND smart. Given the situation and factors involved, im not being selfish by not paying taxes and keeping all of my money. Yes the social programs do not get my mandatory charity, but neither does the war machine. It would be nice if healthcare was free, but it isnt, and it wont be. Even when we have socialized medicine here paid for by tax dollars, the profiteers will still be profiteering. Now from tax dollars instead of insurance dollars. Why would I want to pay in to their greed? Plus they arent the only ones profiteering, first the money has to make it to them, which means another politician will be skimming off the top. Yes a full socialist society works in theory and is a utopia of greatness and fairness, but it doesn't work in reality, it only paves the way for tyranny. I may be "selfish" as you put it, because I realize 80% of Americans won't even help themselves, why would I want to help them?
Its tough to explain because you do not have an explanation. Maybe you are too in love with your country and the "righteousness" bombarded at you.
I'm not saying this angerly at all, i know EXACTLY where your mind is right now.
I'm am just trying to explain the simplicity of it. You believe what you SHOULD believe. And most of the times it the people like you who are the hardest to change their mind. Afterall, something already has a hold of your mind. And its got a tight grip.
Healthcare should be free because it would make life better. You are working selfishly, you only want to better yourself. This is a massive exaggeration but if everyone gave all their money to a government that followed very simple (at the same time complex, but simple to follow) guideline life would be so much better. If they spent all the money right we wouldn't even need money, we could just work together having the government organize.
But i guess im just a dreamer.
It could be done, but most of us are just too selfish. the same selfish character you are exhibititng.
What fucked up situation?
Safer? What are you afraid of?
Than your mind is still living in the dark ages on this. We live in a world where the smart survive. The age of information. Where have you been for the past 100 years?
Likewise, im sure i have given you rep b4, and wanted to give it to you again, but yes, we do disagree, i hope i can change your mind because i do know of a better way.
I dont want to have to survive, I want to be able to just live.
medicineman
New Member
This stuff is very conditional for me. Lets say the troops come home for Iraq and they get on some gov program to help them heal, cope with life etc. I say fuck that I don't wanna pay. That isnt my war, and it was complete bullshit from the beginning. Its unfortunate so many are wasting their time and lives in some foreign country. On the other hand, if, lets say a shitload of Americans are in trouble somewhere and war breaks out to save them. When those troops come home and need assistance, I just wanna give it all up to those brave American heros. There is a difference.
Well, It may be conditional to you, but to those troops, it's not. They didn't start the war, they just went and did their Countries dirty work, the culprit is BUSH. Why should they be punished just because "you" don't think the war was justified. I think you are fucking crazy, and I'll appraise anything you say with that in mind.
Well, It may be conditional to you, but to those troops, it's not. They didn't start the war, they just went and did their Countries dirty work, the culprit is BUSH. Why should they be punished just because "you" don't think the war was justified. I think you are fucking crazy, and I'll appraise anything you say with that in mind.
chuckbane
New Member
i have no problem with any of this. because what you have just said is that things could be good, and you recognize that. you just dont feel like you can make a change. Fight for what you think is right, thats all this thread is asking for. take action now, so you can settle for something better, because when you get a taste for something better you will want the whole pie.
I still think highly of you even though we have a disagreement. You are one of the kind of people that can change the world for the better, we all need to get together and stand up, fight for the freedom and unity that we were all promised.
There is a better way, and we can do it.
Just got back from We are Change (area undisclosed) ironically enough. Im doing the website and hosting it for free. We are change is an action group that, should, sit down and figure out how as a group you can inflict the most amount of change, on topics from fluoride, to the constitution to the federal reserve, and then take action. This was the first one for this city. I dont think we disagree a whole lot, maybe a little. I do dream of a utopia where governments are fair and for the people, where people don't feel raped every paycheck, where people can live healthy. Unfortunately we are so far from this, people will not be able to live healthy today unless they educate themselves, and most wont. And if you want to be REALLY healthy, not fake healthy, you gotta avoid everything from aspartame, fluoride, high fructose corn syrup and other shit. We're so far off course, and as a result I cling onto the undeniable fact, the basis for the United States and one of the best forms of government ever founded under the United States constitution. Nothing is perfect, but we were once great. Dr Paul talks about when he was doctoring, before alot of problems, it was common for families to come in for free or sincerly discounted healthcare at the local doc's office, before they regulated the shit out of them. We restrict ourselves to death, and that is the fate of power in the hands of government, albeit, even in the hands of the people, the mobocracy. There is something better, you and I want it. We'll never get there, but "aim for the stars, land on the moon". I agree, action must be taken, and preparedness is #1.
medicineman
New Member
I think it's called socialistic capitalism. Where the capitalists are made socially responsible and the workers can become owners of capitalism. Don't give anyone anything except a chance to partake in the bounties of this wonderful country. It can be done, but we are going to get a whole lot of flack from the wealthy, they are sitting on their asses enjoying the good life and don't want to be disturbed.
chuckbane
New Member
Thats right, of course people who have the money to buy a higher quality of life arent bitching about poor living conditions. We can do better but the government just doesnt care about the poorer folk, they don't give them as much money as the rich do.
We are putting too much time into taking care of the rich and making sure they are happy and not enough time making everyone feel equal.
I thought that was our goal with "the new world" to have a better place to live. Now its turning into a royal shit hole, like the rest of the world. There was a time when I was proud of the U.S... i dont know if its because i didnt see as much of the shit going on as i do now, or if there was a time, not too long ago, when the country was a great place to live.
I want that back and in a better way.. who else?