Seedlings and pesticide

Cwmoore577 · Oct 12, 2019

I just started two autos, one zkittlez and one gelatOG, and found a small bug on the seedling which is 3 days out of the ground. I couldn’t get the bug before losing sight of it but did look like a thrip or mite. There’s also a small hole on the seedling which I’m not sure if the bug may have caused it or what..

My question is how long should I wait until using a pesticide like AzaMax on it? If it is a harmful bug I don’t want it getting to my other plants that are in the same room.

Richard Drysift · Oct 13, 2019

I wouldn't spray anything on it all; except maybe just water. Not for another few weeks at least and pesticide should be like your last nuclear option: try something safer first.
You can safely sprinkle diatomaceous earth on the top layer of soil which would kill any gnats and/or their larvae. If it was a soil mite then it's fine they are actually beneficial. Thrips wouldn't eat a hole like that. They suck the veins of the leaf leaving tell tale white splotches. Check your other more developed plants for white splotchy patches that look like tiny veins in the leaf. A caterpillar would munch a hole like that; but you'd know it if you had them. That tiny hole may not even be insect related and besides those are baby leaves & they will fall off in few weeks anyway.
I'm betting what you saw was a gnat; no big deal they are easily quelled. In all my years of growing I've only seen thrips and gnats. These are the most common bugs in soil grows. Besides diatomaceous earth you should only need two insect control products to control them:
Neem oil and spinosad. DE will make your soil inhospitable to gnats; preventative and lethal plus adds a source of silica to your soil. Use neem along with DE if the gnats are out of control. Spinosad or the active ingredient in Monterey Garden Spray is for all leaf munchers like thrips and caterpillars. All of these products are safe for organic soil and you can even spray the buds if you have to. Takes 10-14 for neem or spinosad to dissipate.
If you ever get the dreaded spider mites these products will not work and you'll need to seek out a nuclear option. That is when you call in an air strike and use pesticide.

xtsho · Oct 13, 2019

I wouldn't spray any pesticides on a seedling that small. I'd also let that soil dry out some. It looks pretty wet. You'll get better root growth when the soil isn't saturated with water. Plus you risk dampening off.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 13, 2019

xtsho said:
I wouldn't spray any pesticides on a seedling that small. I'd also let that soil dry out some. It looks pretty wet. You'll get better root growth when the soil isn't saturated with water. Plus you risk dampening off.

I know, my question is how big should I let them get before using the pesticide. Also, I noticed the thrip right after I watered them which is why it looks so wet.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 13, 2019

Richard Drysift said:
I wouldn't spray anything on it all; except maybe just water. Not for another few weeks at least and pesticide should be like your last nuclear option: try something safer first.
You can safely sprinkle diatomaceous earth on the top layer of soil which would kill any gnats and/or their larvae. If it was a soil mite then it's fine they are actually beneficial. Thrips wouldn't eat a hole like that. They suck the veins of the leaf leaving tell tale white splotches. Check your other more developed plants for white splotchy patches that look like tiny veins in the leaf. A caterpillar would munch a hole like that; but you'd know it if you had them. That tiny hole may not even be insect related and besides those are baby leaves & they will fall off in few weeks anyway.
I'm betting what you saw was a gnat; no big deal they are easily quelled. In all my years of growing I've only seen thrips and gnats. These are the most common bugs in soil grows. Besides diatomaceous earth you should only need two insect control products to control them:
Neem oil and spinosad. DE will make your soil inhospitable to gnats; preventative and lethal plus adds a source of silica to your soil. Use neem along with DE if the gnats are out of control. Spinosad or the active ingredient in Monterey Garden Spray is for all leaf munchers like thrips and caterpillars. All of these products are safe for organic soil and you can even spray the buds if you have to. Takes 10-14 for neem or spinosad to dissipate.
If you ever get the dreaded spider mites these products will not work and you'll need to seek out a nuclear option. That is when you call in an air strike and use pesticide.

Thanks for the info! I found another today and microscoped it. Confirmed that it was a thrip. I know that pesticides are too strong at this early stage. I just wanted to get an idea of how big they would need to be if I did end up having to go that route.

Richard Drysift · Oct 14, 2019

Spinosad will work against thrips and it is organic. Problem is for it to work they need to ingest it by sucking on your plants leaf veins. You can go ahead and acquire something like Monterey Garden Spray now but wait until they have a few nodes to apply it. Maybe just a couple more weeks. It really shouldn't hurt anything even if you spray with spinosad right now. It's just that the leaf is so narrow they have not really started in on them yet.
You will be battling thrips constantly. They always come back but are also fairly easy to control; takes awhile before any real physical damage can occur. Look for splotchy white patches on the fans; usually you will notice this before you see them flying around. Be sure to spray down the underside of the leaf real good with spinosad; that's where they lay eggs.

Renfro · Oct 14, 2019

I would wait until they have their first multi-bladed leafs before any application. That said if it's a must do thing then it is. I don't think it is. For all you know it was a predator mite.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 14, 2019

Renfro said:
I would wait until they have their first multi-bladed leafs before any application. That said if it's a must do thing then it is. I don't think it is. For all you know it was a predator mite.

I got one the next day and put it under the microscope. Definitely a thrip. I have a couple plants in late flower in a tent in the same room and these two seedlings and a plant in middle of veg on the other side of the room outside of the tent.
The thrip came from the plant in veg as I sometimes put it outside. I treated that one and and put up some sticky traps so I’m hoping they leave the seedlings.
Just can’t risk them getting inside the tent.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 14, 2019

Richard Drysift said:
Spinosad will work against thrips and it is organic. Problem is for it to work they need to ingest it by sucking on your plants leaf veins. You can go ahead and acquire something like Monterey Garden Spray now but wait until they have a few nodes to apply it. Maybe just a couple more weeks. It really shouldn't hurt anything even if you spray with spinosad right now. It's just that the leaf is so narrow they have not really started in on them yet.
You will be battling thrips constantly. They always come back but are also fairly easy to control; takes awhile before any real physical damage can occur. Look for splotchy white patches on the fans; usually you will notice this before you see them flying around. Be sure to spray down the underside of the leaf real good with spinosad; that's where they lay eggs.

I need to pick up some spinosad. All I have currently is AzaMax and some insecticidal soap spray. I successfully got them off my two plants that are now in late flower.. they’re in a tent but in the same room as these seedlings and another plant. Just definitely don’t want them getting into the tent and to the plants that are almost ready for harvest.

Renfro · Oct 14, 2019

You think the bugs came in the bag of soil?

Richard Drysift · Oct 14, 2019

So try the azamax; it appears to be OMRI listed. I just know for a fact that spinosad will work against thrips; no idea about azamax. I would just give it a couple more weeks. Thrips cause very little damage unless left untreated long term. You should get a close look at your other plants too.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 15, 2019

Renfro said:
You think the bugs came in the bag of soil?

I think they come from outside in the backyard. These ones are in coco as well.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 15, 2019

Richard Drysift said:
So try the azamax; it appears to be OMRI listed. I just know for a fact that spinosad will work against thrips; no idea about azamax. I would just give it a couple more weeks. Thrips cause very little damage unless left untreated long term. You should get a close look at your other plants too.

Yea I check them thoroughly once a day and AzaMax did work on the thrips I had on previous plants.

And is this the characteristic thrip damage you mentioned?

Renfro · Oct 15, 2019

Cwmoore577 said:
I think they come from outside in the backyard. These ones are in coco as well.

Future grows you may benefit from applications around the outside of your home. I do that a few times a summer with products that I don't wanna use on my weed like Avid since mites are a problem out here.

Cwmoore577 · Oct 15, 2019

Renfro said:
Future grows you may benefit from applications around the outside of your home. I do that a few times a summer with products that I don't wanna use on my weed like Avid since mites are a problem out here.

Definitely. I was thinking of trying to do that today because being able to put one outside gives me better use of my wattage inside as I don’t have much to work with yet.

Also while I’ve got you here.. I noticed these brown spots forming on the plant that’s vegging. Does it look like a possible deficiency or excess to you? It’s in foxfarm strawberry fields and so far been given RO water and and a light dose of calmag 3 times since it sprouted early July 22. So has not been fed yet.

Kingrow1 · Oct 15, 2019

Cwmoore577 said:
Yea I check them thoroughly once a day and AzaMax did work on the thrips I had on previous plants.

And is this the characteristic thrip damage you mentioned?
View attachment 4408264

Thats not thrip damage and i dont really see it in other photos.

Thrips are a hardcore pest, small white or silver scratcches on the leaves is their telltale from the way they feed :-)

Cwmoore577 · Oct 15, 2019

Kingrow1 said:
Thats not thrip damage and i dont really see it in other photos.

Thrips are a hardcore pest, small white or silver scratcches on the leaves is their telltale from the way they feed

Ok yea I figured. I check the plants daily so they likely haven’t been on it long.
They have survived the first application of AzaMax unfortunately.

Seedlings and pesticide

Cwmoore577

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Richard Drysift

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xtsho

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Cwmoore577

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Cwmoore577

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Richard Drysift

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Renfro

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Cwmoore577

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Renfro

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Richard Drysift

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Cwmoore577

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Renfro

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Cwmoore577

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Kingrow1

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