Seedling/cutting soil difficulties

Any new soil you try out I would highly recommend cooking it in oven for a couple of hours to avoid damping off (fungus). Only plant one seed in uncooked soil. if that one survives you know next time you dont have to cook it. Ive lost seeds in the past due to this. That fungus will kill ALL of your seeds.

nobody important said:

Any new soil you try out I would highly recommend cooking it in oven for a couple of hours to avoid damping off (fungus). Only plant one seed in uncooked soil. if that one survives you know next time you dont have to cook it. Ive lost seeds in the past due to this. That fungus will kill ALL of your seeds.

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Years ago i suffered damping off, always hits the base of the seedling and seedling falls over, seedling can look ok leaf wise for a while. At this point in my life i dialled in water/humidity/temps pretty quick. I grow a lot of seed and plant every week so environmentals are easy to dial in and keep any fungus away.
These are pre mixed pre made soils, sterilised and whatever else, there sold to be reafy to use no messing just add water.

Perfect conditions=no problems.


I like your suggestion and if unferted soil promix gives me bettet results then id know for sure that it the soil nute levels at fault. I aim to get them first roots into a 200-300ppm soil fert environment and add my own ferts when it needs not a soil that feeds for four weeks or more in seedling stage.

Plagron promix or seedling here we come.

Maybe someone suggest some good starter ferts macros/micros for this soil for easy control growt and might try them too.

@2Hearts

Have you ever considered organic soil?

Its not terribly difficult to mix your own soil and its extremely satisfying knowing exactly what goes into it.

Mine is 1/3 sphagnum peat moss, 1/3 aeration bits, and 1/3 compost and earth worm castings. This is the base mix then you add amendments to the base mix and let it compost.

I've started seeds in the base mix no problem. What I usually do is fill a cup 2/3 with base mix and plug the seed onto it, it'll germinate and pop up in about 2 days. Once I see a first set formed, and 2nd set of leaves on its way, then I topdress the rest of the cup with amended soil mix. They only get a cc or two of water every so often till they're able to handle more... I've had great success with this method recently, and I enjoy the simplicity.

2Hearts said:

Anyone know where i can internet shop in the uk for unfertilized soil and seperate base fertilizer so i can control my own nutrient strength?

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HYDROPONIC SHOP,bio bizz do one but i would not go down the organic route,low yeild,unless ya growing outdoors under the sun,and big,i would all ways take cutting in rockwool but they will take in soil,

over complicating things just tap water,no need to ppm/ph if ya from uk waters fine,
mist 2 times a day for 5 days then once a day for 5 days then no misting,just keep the cloneing medium damp,i use a normal house lamp with a cfl bulb in for first 3 days just a lamp with shade of laid n its side near touching the top of propagator lid this will give a bit of warmth.

Then after the 5 days they should be stood up i put them under a 4 tube t 5 they will root in 12/14 days winter 6/7 days summer,yea out side temps do effect the time.in winter leave the lights on 24/7 summer 18/6.

I have took 1000's of clones and the best way i have shown people new to cloneing is ,to take a clone of the plant,hold it at the side of the cube /rockwool,you want the stem to be fully in the rock wool right up to the first set of leaves,this helps the clones from drooping.make sure you pre make a hole with a kebab skewer or cocktail stick.

Most of the people i show how to clone over complicate things,no need all they need is water and the cut put in clone x,for a few seconds.Has soon has you see the roots straight into soil or i put them into bio bizz soil the one with out any feed in,then once there well over root bound in a small cup i put them straight under 600 hps after pre potting in coco/clay balls.

But in most of the grows i do clones are took at week 4 of veg of the plants im going to flower,then they are flowered that way i dont keep a mother.While the plants in the flowering room are doing there thing i do what i said above takeing the clones then once rooted i put them under a t5 for 6 week 2 week for the clones to root and veg for 6 week by this time by the time the plants have flowered the next lot are 2 ft and your ready to flower again,i top the plants at least 4/5 times while there in the t5 room,if you do more than two you will need either more t5's or a 250 hps so they don't end up with the nodes miles apart.but 99.9% of my vegging is done under a t5 and the plants allways throw around 28,dry from two min..........tyke

tyke1973 said:

HYDROPONIC SHOP,bio bizz do one but i would not go down the organic route,low yeild,unless ya growing outdoors under the sun,and big,i would all ways take cutting in rockwool but they will take in soil,

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Biobizz soil is a tad bit strong even the light mix. Their fish mix is best one part veg nute i ever used in my whole life and others swear by it. I have some of their ferts now.

I can clone fine and they always started better in these soils just havnt space for a mom. Use to clone the tops and especially if low on seed. Seedlings just look nicer and feel more parental responsibilities or id always clone. Good info

tyke1973 said:

over complicating things just tap water,no need to ppm/ph if ya from uk waters fine,
mist 2 times a day for 5 days then once a day for 5 days then no misting,just keep the cloneing medium damp,i use a normal house lamp with a cfl bulb in for first 3 days just a lamp with shade of laid n its side near touching the top of propagator lid this will give a bit of warmth.

Then after the 5 days they should be stood up i put them under a 4 tube t 5 they will root in 12/14 days winter 6/7 days summer,yea out side temps do effect the time.in winter leave the lights on 24/7 summer 18/6.

I have took 1000's of clones and the best way i have shown people new to cloneing is ,to take a clone of the plant,hold it at the side of the cube /rockwool,you want the stem to be fully in the rock wool right up to the first set of leaves,this helps the clones from drooping.make sure you pre make a hole with a kebab skewer or cocktail stick.

Most of the people i show how to clone over complicate things,no need all they need is water and the cut put in clone x,for a few seconds.Has soon has you see the roots straight into soil or i put them into bio bizz soil the one with out any feed in,then once there well over root bound in a small cup i put them straight under 600 hps after pre potting in coco/clay balls.

But in most of the grows i do clones are took at week 4 of veg of the plants im going to flower,then they are flowered that way i dont keep a mother.While the plants in the flowering room are doing there thing i do what i said above takeing the clones then once rooted i put them under a t5 for 6 week 2 week for the clones to root and veg for 6 week by this time by the time the plants have flowered the next lot are 2 ft and your ready to flower again,i top the plants at u do more than two you will need either more t5's or a 250 hps so they don't end up with the nodes miles apart.but 99.9% 5 and the planthrow around 28,dry from two min..........tyke

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if you use a promix type soil that has no nutrients and no calcium source, make sure you use hydro nutrients. As starter suggestions, For seeds, I use nothing but 6.0 to 6.5 ph water, for clones rooting, I use around 50ppm which is almost nothing and mostly made up of root tonic. I agree with tyke1973, stay away from organic unless if its Rock nutrients and even they are only 70% organic(30% mineral based). The only thing I like to do different is let a clone show massive amounts of roots before transplanting.

2Hearts said:

Plagron seed soil link:-

http://growshop.ie/index.php/mediums-pots/plagron-seeding-cutting-soil-25-litre.html


This soil has an ec of 0.3 as details in the link show and Plagron pro mix suggests even less nutrient value.

This could well be what im after and will order some tomorrow so maybe ten days to get results. I hope it gives the control i want as i dont currently use them much but have ec meters, chem ferts and organic ferts so can trial one seed each for chem and organic.

Begining to open my eyes to pro mixes as they offer such a vast level choice in starting soil nutrient strength. Very happy after days reading up and finding npk/ec values

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lightmix will be fine to use too.

a senile fungus said:

@2Hearts

Have you ever considered organic soil?

Its not terribly difficult to mix your own soil and its extremely satisfying knowing exactly what goes into it.

Mine is 1/3 sphagnum peat moss, 1/3 aeration bits, and 1/3 compost and earth worm castings. This is the base mix then you add amendments to the base mix and let it compost.

I've started seeds in the base mix no problem. What I usually do is fill a cup 2/3 with base mix and plug the seed onto it, it'll germinate and pop up in about 2 days. Once I see a first set formed, and 2nd set of leaves on its way, then I topdress the rest of the cup with amended soil mix. They only get a cc or two of water every so often till they're able to handle more... I've had great success with this method recently, and I enjoy the simplicity.

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You my good sir have proverbally hit the nail on the head

Totally where im at but after extensive reading and valued RiP members contributions ive come to the conclusion that Pro Mix is your basic soil mix in a pre mixed nicely packeged bag.

Questions?????

* Worm compost is all the micros just leaving you to supply N, P and K? Or how am i providing your mix with its base ferts?

* Run stuff like it before but held water too long, peat and wood always seemed to waterlog despite some perlite? Run canna soiless and never dried and when it did was loose like you could blow the whole pot away, too lightweight and not fiberous enough.

Also if you have pics of seedlings in your mix id be so greatfull or a link.

resinousflowers420 said:

lightmix will be fine to use too.

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Plagron light mix will do for veg and probably cutting but too strong for seedling and plagron advertise and recomend their seedling soil which is 0.3ec as oppose to 0.7 i think for tbeir light mix. My soils now that give problems are similar strength to their light mix. Also biobizz light mix seems strong for seedlings. Some may do fine with it but totally not my experience. Some soils make it easy and advertise the soils exact nutrient content in npk or ec and others dont. I do feel i would only use a light mix for veg as thats when i want 600-700ppm but not for seedlings. Pro mix in america that people are popping dam fine seedlings comes in like somthing similar i.e. 0.4-0.6-0.5 for example which seems good for seedlings and fert after a week or so.

nobody important said:

if you use a promix type soil that has no nutrients and no calcium source, make sure you use hydro nutrients. As starter suggestions, For seeds, I use nothing but 6.0 to 6.5 ph water, for clones rooting, I use around 50ppm which is almost nothing and mostly made up of root tonic. I agree with tyke1973, stay away from organic unless if its Rock nutrients and even they are only 70% organic(30% mineral based). The only thing I like to do different is let a clone show massive amounts of roots before transplanting.

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I think any promix with peat contains contains healthy levels of calcium thesedays, even in soil i never suffer it much. I have a lot of calmag and mag products. Favourite is Piranah by AN i think make it, grey white powder with calmag, iron etc and bacteria plus fungis, roots look the shizzle.

Ultimatly and for ease i will use synths but always liquid seaweed. Mixing chem organics has always proved to work well for soil probably they both act as a fail safe for each other.

I see little difference between the local hard ware shop nutes with micros and tripple the price hydro shop ferts. My hardware store has a bitching range of organic ferts from chicken crap, fish, blood bone, horse manure and a few more but there big tubs and the least mixing stuff i have to do the better.

The promix I use here has no calcium whatsoever. Pure peat with some perlite. I prefer this to anything with calcium. Simply because my hydro nutes supply the calmag needed. If you trust the soil company that mixes a calcium source in there soil, thats one thing, but if they loaded it with too much, you will be constantly fighting rising ph levels that may shoot over 7.0. Its a lot easier to correct acidic soil than it is to correct a very high PH due to calcium. You cant get it out. All you can do is water with very acidic water and constantly monitor PH. I just lost seeds because the lightwarrior I used was loaded with oyster shells and even after watering and flushing multiple times with water phd at 4.0, the runoff was still coming back at 7.5 and just kept on rising

nobody important said:

The promix I use here has no calcium whatsoever. Pure peat with some perlite. I prefer this to anything with calcium. Simply because my hydro nutes supply the calmag needed. If you trust the soil company that mixes a calcium source in there soil, thats one thing, but if they loaded it with too much, you will be constantly fighting rising ph levels that may shoot over 7.0. Its a lot easier to correct acidic soil than it is to correct a very high PH due to calcium. You cant get it out. All you can do is water with very acidic water and constantly monitor PH. I just lost seeds because the lightwarrior I used was loaded with oyster shells and even after watering and flushing multiple times with water phd at 4.0, the runoff was still coming back at 7.5 and just kept on rising

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I got to find this out really and due some more reading before bed. I would rather add calcium myself and its just crushed limestone in my soils which just slowly plods on and quite balanced. This is one benifit of the soils i use as have great calcium buffering abilities.

No hydro shop i know seems to give any decent advice and feel like some countries are lightyears ahead of us with some products.

Plagron seed and cutting at 0.3 - 0.4 ec mentions the word 'Germination' once where ad Plagron Light Mix at 1.0-1.2ec never mentions it. They do both mention the word seedling but thats an already sprouted seed so obviously spent some time, a week or so, in a plug or coco cube seedling thing lighter ec. Anyway i could be picky but lightmix is three times the strength of their seedling mix and dosent contain the word 'Germination' anywhere in the text.

Details
Plagron Seeding & Cutting soil 25 Litres
Plagron Seeding & Cutting soil is an enriched soil mixture that is very suitable for sensitive seedlings and cuttings. It's a fine and smooth blend, based on peat and sand. Seeding & Cutting soil has a very low EC value and an optimum pH range for germination of seeds. Plagron seeding cutting soil includes a balanced feed so that the roots of the plant develop a lot quicker.

Suitable for sensitive seedlings and cuttings
Stimulates root development
Has a very low EC value and an optimum pH-value
Composition: Peat, black peat, peat fibre, guano and marl

Tips from Plagron:

Combine seeding and cutting soil with Plagron Seed Booster Plus for cuttings that are difficult to root.
The powdery structure of this mix makes it easy to transplant your plants.
pH - 5.5 - 6.5

EC Value - Ratio (1:1.5) - 0.3 - 0 .4




-------------------



Details
Plagron Light Mix
Plagron Light mix is a mix of the very best, carefully selected types of peat. The addition of various types of fibre and perlite result in an aerated and oxygenated substrate, a level found only in a quality Plagron potting soil.

Only a minimal amount of nutrients have been added to Plagron Light mix, so for the first week you will not have to feed your plants. This makes Plagron Light mix the perfect potting soil for seedlings and cuttings, you get to fertilize according to your own judgement and choices.

Because Plagron light mix has minimal feed in it, seedlings and cuttings can go straight into it.

Plagron Light-mix produces the highest yields when used with the other products from "the Terra Concept" of Plagron.

Pre-fertilised for 1 week for a fast start.
Grower decides everything about fertilisation.
Rapid rooting through low EC value
pH: 5.5 - 6.5

EC: 1.0 - 1.2 mS

NPK : 12-14-24



Product Tags

Ok i have Plagron ProMix (unfertilised) soil, Biobizz fishmix and Canna start coming on Thursday as promised.

I have more than enough gear to give this soil a propper run for its money, results posted next week

nobody important said:

if you use a promix type soil that has no nutrients and no calcium source, make sure you use hydro nutrients. As starter suggestions, For seeds, I use nothing but 6.0 to 6.5 ph water, for clones rooting, I use around 50ppm which is almost nothing and mostly made up of root tonic. I agree with tyke1973, stay away from organic unless if its Rock nutrients and even they are only 70% organic(30% mineral based). The only thing I like to do different is let a clone show massive amounts of roots before transplanting.

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No need to worrie about ppm and the ph if the water is ok,only thing they need is dipping in clone x you are making it sound harder than it is,take the cutting dip straight into cloned,while it's in clone x prep the cube squeeze out excess water and make a fresh hole with a kebab stick of something like this make the hole wider than the stem,put the cutting in the hole push the side in around the clone,so there us no air gaps and mist for two days for about 5 days then once a day after that.make sure there in a propagation,and mist the lid,after the 10 days are up just don't mist make them work for the moisture,they may take 10/14 days sometimes longer but they will take,after this start them on a 1.1 ec, clean slate of nutes they will take just don't rush them,infact a bit of neglect after 10 days does them good.i do this every time it's never let me down yet,but I use rock wool.but same apples to soil.i get 10/10 every time but keep the first to root they are normally the best yieldingyielding

tyke1973 said:

No need to worrie about ppm and the ph if the water is ok,only thing they need is dipping in clone x you are making it sound harder than it is,take the cutting dip straight into cloned,while it's in clone x prep the cube squeeze out excess water and make a fresh hole with a kebab stick of something like this make the hole wider than the stem,put the cutting in the hole push the side in around the clone,so there us no air gaps and mist for two days for about 5 days then once a day after that.make sure there in a propagation,and mist the lid,after the 10 days are up just don't mist make them work for the moisture,they may take 10/14 days sometimes longer but they will take,after this start them on a 1.1 ec, clean slate of nutes they will take just don't rush them,infact a bit of neglect after 10 days does them good.i do this every time it's never let me down yet,but I use rock wool.but same apples to soil.i get 10/10 every time but keep the first to root they are normally the best yieldingyielding

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My water is 8.2ph and 70ppm and growing in Plagron Promix (Unfertilized peat, worm compost, marl limestone and perlite).

Is it essential to ph or just treat like soil and not worry?

*Update* Plagron Promix, biobizz fish and Canna start have arrived. Starting new beans tomorrow

tyke1973 said:

No need to worrie about ppm and the ph if the water is ok,only thing they need is dipping in clone x you are making it sound harder than it is,take the cutting dip straight into cloned,while it's in clone x prep the cube squeeze out excess water and make a fresh hole with a kebab stick of something like this make the hole wider than the stem,put the cutting in the hole push the side in around the clone,so there us no air gaps and mist for two days for about 5 days then once a day after that.make sure there in a propagation,and mist the lid,after the 10 days are up just don't mist make them work for the moisture,they may take 10/14 days sometimes longer but they will take,after this start them on a 1.1 ec, clean slate of nutes they will take just don't rush them,infact a bit of neglect after 10 days does them good.i do this every time it's never let me down yet,but I use rock wool.but same apples to soil.i get 10/10 every time but keep the first to root they are normally the best yieldingyielding

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OH I disagree. As in me making it harder, where did you read that from? I just got back from a trip to Florida where I was flown out to help a friend with his setup, He has attempted to grow with the same asinine advice you are giving. How can you know how good your water is without taking measurements? Do you also believe that a water utility company will guarantee you the same water every day? If you do, you have no idea how municipalities work and you must believe some guy at the water utility place is there constantly all day measuring the water you get. Most places in the U.S. may provide good water, but to believe it is constant is foolish. Back to my trip to Florida, It is a unique state as most of the state gets their water from LIMESTONE aquifers. I discovered tap water coming out over 600ppm and ph always over 8.5. Every day it was changing with over 10% differences. I even got a reading of over 700ppm while I was there. They also use chloramine as their chlorine source which can not be rid off by simply sitting water out like most idiots believe. Also most of the calcium found in tap water is NOT easily absorbed by cannabis. It is of a different molecular structure and not chelated for the plants structure. Using this type of water will simply cause Calcium lockout to some strains. Not all (some strains are Calcium hogs and will get enough of the calcium, however you will still eventually get calcium buildup and later get lockouts). My buddy in Florida flew me out because he was tired of getting idiotic advise from people who were suggesting asinine ideas (such as dont check ppm or ph). It was his first time growing and setup 3 rooms for flowering (12k) due to a financial settlement he received that he decided to invest. All of his problems were fixed by installing a R.O. filter setup. Now I congratulate you for your ability to not check ppm or ph. However by reading your post it is evident who the one really is making things complicated. Out of my entire post where I referenced you, I only made it clear I let plants root much more than you do. This makes transplants bulletproof with no signs of stress and immediate growth. To each his own, just dont give asinine advice like you did because we all dont have a fairy at the utility place making sure that our own personal grow water is perfect for cannabis

I should add that I mentioned to him to get an R.O. filter before he flew my out there. However all the hydro shops were telling him no need for one. He has ruined his first grow (at least he can afford to) due to simple ignorance and because of too many people claiming to be "experts". Had he listened to my simple advice of a cheap R.O. unit he would have saved the $2k I demanded for my week stay out there