Seed Buyers! 10 Pack Ratio Thread

[Trailingpickles]

Hey Riu.
I'm Just starting this thread to get information on the male to female ratios people are getting with there seed packs.

How many Females?
How many Males?
How many didn't Sprout?
Method of Germination?

Thanks for posting.

 

[SeedHo]

so you think that one strain over the others will have more females than males? you think the breeders will add more female to males seeds in a pack of normal seeds? these are the questions i`m haveing to ask you.
germ rates maybe but sex no way your going to get the answers your looking for, its nature my friend nature.

 

[Lenny Scroggins]

I was looking over some Woody's GDP from Loud seed s today with a magnifier. Looks like from 10 regs.........

5 females
2 males
3 didn't sprout, for the first time in years ( small, light, indentations, very weak looking seed s)
paper towel method, then carefully moved to rooters.
They started off slow, looking healthy now at 4 weeks.



But yeah, Seedho is right with reg. seed s you never know. Now most female seed s from a reputable breeder are very stable

 

[Jogro]

This is a pointless exercise.

Check out "binomial distribution".

Without hundreds of germination reports of ceeds from a particular breeder's strain, any information you get on gender ratios here won't be statistically significant or meaningful. You're never going to get that data.
Might as well try to deduce the "fairness" of a coin by looking at ten flips.

Instead, you're just going to get a small number of individual reports, potentially biased by people who were disappointed in their gender ratios. People remember packs with 8 males/2 females a lot more than they remember 3 males/7 females!

Put differently, assuming 50-50 gender ratios, and normal 10-packs of ceeds, you should expect full 1 in 6 packs to give you 7 males OR MORE.

Even though that's totally NORMAL, try telling that to the poor sucker who draws a pack with 8 males and 2 females!

And even if you did manage to somehow get data on hundreds of ceeds of a given strain (which you won't), at best that data would only apply to a given lot of ceeds. Since most breeders create new ceeds every year or two, any data you collect will likely be obsolete by the time you collect it. And since most breeders don't label their runs with lot numbers (or even if they did, most growers are noting them), there is no way for you to know which lot any given report is from, and therefore no accurate way for you to pool/compare the data.

Germination rate data is probably a lot more useful, just in knowing which strains might fall short, but that still leaves a few potential problems. Some growers simply don't use the best proper technique to germinate ceeds, and that could be an issue in reporting. Some growers don't store ceeds optimally, again potentially affecting germination rates. Some ceeds may be old stock that have sat on a shelf for quite a long time before the ceedbank sold them or mishandled by the seedbank. If so, that's not necessarily the breeders' fault if ceeds don't germinate.

So if a grower says (for example) that only 7 or 10 of his "fruity-kush" germinated, you don't know if that's because the grower didn't do a good job germinating them, because there were issues with storage somewhere along the line, or if they're just old. You also don't know if the problem was isolated to a particular batch of ceeds, and may have been fixed by the breeder already.

 

[Jogro]

you think the breeders will add more female to males seeds in a pack of normal seeds?

Short of "doping" the ceed pack by adding feminized ceeds (which I don't think any breeders would do. . .they usually charge and get more for fem ceeds), I don't know how a breeder even COULD do this.

As far as I know, there is no reliable way to tell a ceed's gender just by looking at the ceed. Unless you're going to do molecular gender testing, the only way you're going to know the gender is to actually grow then flower the plant.

In nature, for reasons I won't get into here, all species with conventional male/female genders tend towards a pure 50-50 gender ratio.

With cannabis in particular, it has been alleged that some strains will put out more than 50-50 ratios of females/males; potentially an artefact of dozen of generations of selecting for female plants during indoor growing/breeding.

Still, I think if you want all females, the best thing to do is to buy feminized ceeds, and/or just start all your plants from female clones. Those are the only ways you can really be sure.

Method of Germination?

Depends on what I'm germinating, but I actually like "old school" place ceed onto cup of soil, lightly cover with more soil, spray water on top, then cover with plastic wrap or bag to retain humidity.

Advantage of this method is no need to handle seedling during its most fragile stage. Doing it this way also makes for the fastest possible establishment of a root system, and gets plant leaflets exposed to light as soon as possible.

Disadvantages? You can't see what's happening with slow-germinating ceeds so easily. Its also possible to get seedling rot ("damping off"), under some conditions. This technique is probably best for good healthy ceeds you know will germinate quickly.

 

[Nightmarecreature]

Sin City Seeds gives you 15 seeds per pack. Insead of the usual 5-10 seeds. You are going to get more females for sure.

 

[SeedHo]

wow!...........

 

[Mrs. Rare Dankness]

This is one of the most Intelligent post I have read.

This is ntless exercise.

Check out "binomial distribution".

Without hundreds of germination reports of ceeds from a particular breeder's strain, any information you get on gender ratios here won't be statistically significant or meaningful. You're never going to get that data.
Might as well try to deduce the "fairness" of a coin by looking at ten flips.

Instead, you're just going to get a small number of individual reports, potentially biased by people who were disappointed in their gender ratios. People remember packs with 8 males/2 females a lot more than they remember 3 males/7 females!

Put differently, assuming 50-50 gender ratios, and normal 10-packs of ceeds, you should expect full 1 in 6 packs to give you 7 males OR MORE.

Even though that's totally NORMAL, try telling that to the poor sucker who draws a pack with 8 males and 2 females!

And even if you did manage to somehow get data on hundreds of ceeds of a given strain (which you won't), at best that data would only apply to a given lot of ceeds. Since most breeders create new ceeds every year or two, any data you collect will likely be obsolete by the time you collect it. And since most breeders don't label their runs with lot numbers (or even if they did, most growers are noting them), there is no way for you to know which lot any given report is from, and therefore no accurate way for you to pool/compare the data.

Germination rate data is probably a lot more useful, just in knowing which strains might fall short, but that still leaves a few potential problems. Some growers simply don't use the best proper technique to germinate ceeds, and that could be an issue in reporting. Some growers don't store ceeds optimally, again potentially affecting germination rates. Some ceeds may be old stock that have sat on a shelf for quite a long time before the ceedbank sold them or mishandled by the seedbank. If so, that's not necessarily the breeders' fault if ceeds don't germinate.

So if a grower says (for example) that only 7 or 10 of his "fruity-kush" germinated, you don't know if that's because the grower didn't do a good job germinating them, because there were issues with storage somewhere along the line, or if they're just old. You also don't know if the problem was isolated to a particular batch of ceeds, and may have been fixed by the breeder already.

 

[Jogro]

Sin City Seeds gives you 15 seeds per pack. Insead of the usual 5-10 seeds. You are going to get more females for sure.

Well, I wouldn't say its "for sure" since with any random process like this, you can always end drawing the "short straw" by dumb luck.

For example, assuming 50-50 male/female ratios, about 1 in 50 packs of 15 ceeds will still NORMALLY have 3 females or less. If you assume that any good breeder is going to make and sell at least 50 packs of any given strain, then SOMEONE out there is inevitably going to end up screwed with only a few females in their pack!

But of course you're absolutely right that the more ceeds you start with, the more females you're likely to end up with. if you're starting with 15 ceeds, you'd expect, on average, to end up with 50% more females compared to starting with just 10.

In absolute terms, starting with a 10-pack you'd expect to see 5 or more 62% of the time. With a 15 pack, you'd expect to see at least 5 females fully94% of the time. That's pretty good odds, I think.

Also, while the industry standard is 10 regular ceeds/pack, just for those who don't know, Sin City isn't the only breeder that puts out more than that:

Mr. Nice also has 15 packs.
Reserva Privada/DNA Genetics have "baker's dozen" 13 packs.
DeSjamaan, Gage Green, BDBud Depot, etc, have 12 packs.
Serious and OGRaskal have 11 packs, etc.

This is one of the most Intelligent post I have read.

Thank you.

 

[Nightmarecreature]

Well, I wouldn't say its "for sure" since with any random process like this, you can always end drawing the "short straw" by dumb luck.

For example, assuming 50-50 male/female ratios, about 1 in 50 packs of 15 ceeds will still NORMALLY have 3 females or less. If you assume that any good breeder is going to make and sell at least 50 packs of any given strain, then SOMEONE out there is inevitably going to end up screwed with only a few females in their pack!

But of course you're absolutely right that the more ceeds you start with, the more females you're likely to end up with. if you're starting with 15 ceeds, you'd expect, on average, to end up with 50% more females compared to starting with just 10.

In absolute terms, starting with a 10-pack you'd expect to see 5 or more 62% of the time. With a 15 pack, you'd expect to see at least 5 females fully94% of the time. That's pretty good odds, I think.

Also, while the industry standard is 10 regular ceeds/pack, just for those who don't know, Sin City isn't the only breeder that puts out more than that:

Mr. Nice also has 15 packs.
Reserva Privada/DNA Genetics have "baker's dozen" 13 packs.
DeSjamaan, Gage Green, BDBud Depot, etc, have 12 packs.
Serious and OGRaskal have 11 packs, etc.



Thank you.

I believe there are less males in species overall, plants or animals. Out of hundreds of packs I have only gotten less females once. It was a pack of Goji OG, 11 seeds 2 females. I also heard from others that this particular strain puts out more males. It's rare to get one or two females. Most of the time the grower lied and killed his females or stressed them out and made them herm.

 

[Nightmarecreature]

Yes. I frequently share packs with a large amount of people. I just picked up 6 packs of seeds (70 seeds) from some generous breeders at the Cup for FREE. Im also running tester packs for Game Over Seeds. It doesn't take long to pop a hundred packs.

 

[Uncle Pirate]

wtf riu is janky as hell.

 

[Clankie]

I believe there are less males iin species overall, plants or animals. Out of hundreds of packs I have only gotten less females once. It was a pack of Goji OG, 11 seeds 2 females. I also heard from others that this particular strain puts out more males. It's rare to get one or two females. Most of the time the grower lied and killed his females or stressed them out and made them herm.

i feel special, my goji gave me 5 healthy females from 9 seeds. no signs of intersexing here. i've had low ratios of females from hybrids with herijuana, i'll be doing my first seed run of heri itself a little later in the year.

 

[Jogro]

I believe there are less males in species overall, plants or animals.

If you're talking about the sum gender total of every gendered organism on the plant I think you're probably right. In many animal species there is quite a bit of male competition/predation, and consequently there are fewer males who survive. But again, there are specific genetic reasons having to do with selection pressure why in nature sexual offspring always approach (though don't always exactly equal) a 50-50 ratio.

With cannabis in particular the situation is fairly atypical because intersex phenotype plants are common, and since these are effectively genetic females with male flowers, they may "displace" some of the true males from strict 50-50 gender ratio. Also, because many medical strains that people are growing have been subject to highly un-natural artificial anti-male selection during indoor breeding for 30-100+ generations, this selective pressure may have altered genetic gender ratios by creating an environment where female-predominant lines were favored.

Out of hundreds of packs I have only gotten less females once. It was a pack of Goji OG, 11 seeds 2 females. I also heard from others that this particular strain puts out more males. It's rare to get one or two females. Most of the time the grower lied and killed his females or stressed them out and made them herm.

Well, this has actually been my experience too. Females are just more common than males. I think I'm actually 5/5 females out of my last five regular beans from three strains, and bluntly, I don't think I've EVER germinated five or six males in a row.

Again, why this is, is a matter of debate, but there are some possible explanations above.

On the math, again, with an expected 50-50 model, the chance of getting only 1 or 2 females out of ten germinated ceeds is only 5.5%. In other words, by pure dumb luck only about 1 in 18 packs of ceeds should have only 1 or 2 females. If the true odds of getting a female are greater than 50% (and they may be with many strains), even a *little* greater, then the chance of getting only 1-2 females in a ten pack is going to be quite a bit less.