Second, not so happy grow and same issues... What am I doing wrong here?!

Hi Everyone! I'm not sure if I posted in the right sub forum, sorry if its the wrong one. I am running organic nutes so I figured this might be the right place to post? This is my first post, I've pretty much been a lurker for the past year reading a ton of posts on here. I must say, I've learned quite a bit from these forums along the way, but not enough cause here I am starting my first post. I'm sorry if this is going to be a long and boring post, I'm not sure where to start so I'll just give my whole story.... Here's the list of my grow:

• Medium - Roots Organic 707
• Fabric 3 gal pots (past 2 days, 1 gal fabric previously)
• Tap water 7.4ish ph (I have Brita filter too, was using that for a long time now switched to just tap)
• Lights - HLG 260w RSpec\BSpec Quantum Board combo (currently 24" from canopy)
• Indoor - 36"x36" tent
• Nute Line - Roots Organic Liquid - Grow, Bloom, HPK, Trinity, Extreme Serene, Calmag. I also have Fish Shit and Recharge that I use here and there.
• pH adjustment - Earth Juice UP / Down
• Temp 73-79° / RH 50-60 (humidifier on Inkbird controller)
• Strains - 1x Skunky Brewster / 3x Bubble Berry - (w/ a little LST)
• Age - 12 weeks from cut in clone bucket, and they've been 8 weeks in soil now

This is my second indoor grow with the exact same issues as my previous one. Previous grow was 1x Skunky Brewster and 1x Bubble Berry in 3 gal bags using Roots Organic Original soil. My last grow was doing great until it started to show signs of deficiencies or so I thought. First off, mixing nutes is a freakin PITA!! Literally like 45+ min just to mix 1 gallon of nutes and pH each time, its pretty annoying. I'm still not sure if it was deficiencies, pH imbalance or over feeding that caused my issues. I was able to get them to limp along but they looked like shit. Especially Skunky, the leaves were all hanging low and curled. Honestly, I'm thinking I had a combination of pH imbalance, over feeding and under feeding but its really tough for me to determine (especially as a newbie). Some say its one thing while others say its another so I'm getting pulled all over the place and not getting to the bottom of it. FYI Each watering and feeding I would pH the water to 6.2-6.4. pH in Skunky got to about 8.2 when doing a medium pH test or runoff towards the end! Bubble was about 7.8 pH. I am watering enough to have runoff as well. The plants are on risers so they arent sitting in the runoff.

Ok so fast forward. The 4 plants were in 1 gal pots and were doing great for the first 4 weeks. I only fed them twice 3/19 & 3/26 (10ml grow, 5ml trinity, 5 surge, 5 fish shit and 1tsp of recharge but I did not check PPM before feeding) and pH'd it to 6.2 with EJ UP. I overfed them and should have measured PPM. When mixing my nutes, pH would always drop to 3.8. Even if I let it sit for 24hr, it didn't go up much. Again, Each watering and feeding I would pH the water to 6.2-6.4.

I started to notice the EXACT same symptoms in the leaves that were displayed in my last grow, now I'm pissed. I asked HTG Supply for advice and they said since I was using RO bottle line to not pH the nutes nor pH the water (they live in same city and don't pH their water). He explained to me that he believes the pH was so high due to EJ UP in the nutes. So, for the past 4 weeks I have not pH'd anything. I also stopped feeding cause I think I overfed and burned them (tips browned) and they are showing these other issues (same as my previous plants).

Water runoff results from 4/11:
Bubble Berry's - 7.4 pH / 450-500 PPM
Skunky Brewster - 8.1 / 450 PPM

A friend sent me Earth Dust and said to ditch the bottles just the other day. He said he had similar issues so once he switched to ED they all went away (including the countless hours mixing and pH'ing). Since I've had problems with the last grow and now same with this one I said screw the bottles, im trying this stuff! 2 days ago I transplanted the plants from 1 gal fabric pots to 3 gal fabric post with ED Base mixed into the soil (1Tbsp per gal). Hoping it'll do its thing but meanwhile these are showing more issues....HELP!!!!

I was also told to get a bucket and air stones so I did, I have the tap water in there getting aerated. I originally bought it to brew my RO nutes for 24hr but since I just switched to Earth Dust it wont be used for that... Can I just keep adding water to that or do I have to clean it weekly? The tent isnt near a water source so it's been a blessing having that near the tent.

The photos of the leaves are almost identical to the ones from my last grow, like brown stripes and blotches. 20200417_165514.jpg is a perfect example of I've seen the most of. Hopefully someone can shed some light on what I'm continually doing wrong, because this is extremely frustrating spending all this time on plants that hate me. What do you think has been going on with my issues? Combination of overfeed, underfeed and pH issues or what? What are you recommendations? Thanks in advance!!

Here's Bubble Berry and Skunky from my last grow. Side by side 3 weeks before I harvested them. You can see they're not too happy....

It sounds like your soil pH is way too high. The pH up you're using is probably throwing shit off and making the pH continue to rise. Not to mention your tap water has a pH of 7.4 already, which tells me it already has elements in it that want to raise and buffer the pH, Ca mainly. If that's the case, feed your plants with a lower pH to get it back in balance.

You can use the organic nutes you have now to lower the pH, just don't overdo it. It's easy to love these things too much.

Bubbling that stuff helps make it more readily available, and raises the pH a bit, but I usually just feed without bubbling anymore when I do use bottled nutes. Yes, it's better to bubble it first, but it's a lot more work, lol. Just take it easy on them. It also takes longer for organic nutes to work than chemicals.

I finally bought a proper tool, to give more accurate soil pH readings and am loving it, but it wasn't cheap. You can get an estimate using drops, but a true probe gives way more accurate readings. Gotta thank Renfro for that tip.

PadawanWarrior said:

It sounds like your soil pH is way too high. The pH up you're using is probably throwing shit off and making the pH continue to rise. Not to mention your tap water has a pH of 7.4 already, which tells me it already has elements in it that want to raise and buffer the pH, Ca mainly. If that's the case, feed your plants with a lower pH to get it back in balance.

You can use the organic nutes you have now to lower the pH, just don't overdo it. It's easy to love these things too much.

Bubbling that stuff helps make it more readily available, and raises the pH a bit, but I usually just feed without bubbling anymore when I do use bottled nutes. Yes, it's better to bubble it first, but it's a lot more work, lol. Just take it easy on them. It also takes longer for organic nutes to work than chemicals.

I finally bought a proper tool, to give more accurate soil pH readings and am loving it, but it wasn't cheap. You can get an estimate using drops, but a true probe gives way more accurate readings. Gotta thank Renfro for that tip.
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Thanks for taking the time to read my post and replying, PadawanWarrior. I forgot to mention that I do own a BlueLab pH pen (not soil, just liquid. Didnt even know that soil one existed). Since HTG mentioned not to pH anything weeks ago, I haven't. One of the main issues that has risen is the brownish spots on the leaves, like in the middle of the blade. After doing a bit more Googling I think this symptom could be due to pH Fluctuations according to GrowWeedEasy (t.ly/rugN). The photo at the top of the page looks identical to the symptoms my plants are showing (once again). Now I'm a bit confused on what the heck to do? To pH or not to pH? These symptoms sound like they have arose possible due to not pH'ing and going from feeding At this point I'd have to assume they are starving since I haven't fed them in 25 days since I overfed them.

If these issues are due to pH fluctuations then what's your recommendation in my case? Again, if I mix the nutes, they are around 3.8-4 pH and my tap is 7.4 pH. It seems the plants are hating going from one extreme to the other I guess according to these symptoms. Are you recommending to just put a little of Grow in each watering to lower the pH? Basically slow feedings of grow and water to lower pH to mid 6, instead of once a week feedings at 4 pH and tap at 7.4 pH? I also have Recharge and Fish Shit. How often should I be using those? Thank you.

That necrosis you see is exactly the same issues I had before making some major changes in my own approach to organic growing. It is related to ph but it also has to do with nutrients and your water source. The guys at HTG are there to sell you products; they are not going to tell you what you don’t want to hear. What they are telling you is the same advice I was given but nothing helped. Then I read a couple of books on organic growing which totally changed my perspective.
Here’s three things that did help:
First was to throw out all my soluble nutrients with the exception of liquid fish. Instead opt for fertilizers and dry soil amendments. No more mixing anything or worrying about how it affects the ph. Add water only with the occasional compost tea just to keep the party rocking. Without any high npk values and buffers PH becomes a non issue.
Second was to get off of using municipal tap water. Yes I know lots of people use tap but depending upon what they add into your system it may just be easier to use another water source. For me the solution was to use water collected from my dehumidifier. I was just emptying it into a drain almost everyday which was a total waste. Now I dump it into a bucket and water the plants automatically with blumats. You do not have to use RO water either but that’s another alternative. In living soil a clean source of water is needed to keep the mix highly active. I augment my water supply with collected rain and spring water. You may need to give a soluble form of calmag for macros if there’s no other way to add it in. Like say composted eggshell....
Third is a worm bin. The benefits of this cannot be understated. I just add fresh compost and the plants thrive. It’s that simple. Vermicompost contains all the microbial activity they need which helps regulate ph and allows for proper absorption when in symbiosis with mycorrhizae fungi. I literally feed my plants kitchen scraps that would have been garbage anyway. You can just use bagged ewc but nothing is as active as it is fresh from the worms ass.

Dankbud42o said:

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and replying, PadawanWarrior. I forgot to mention that I do own a BlueLab pH pen (not soil, just liquid. Didnt even know that soil one existed). Since HTG mentioned not to pH anything weeks ago, I haven't. One of the main issues that has risen is the brownish spots on the leaves, like in the middle of the blade. After doing a bit more Googling I think this symptom could be due to pH Fluctuations according to GrowWeedEasy (t.ly/rugN). The photo at the top of the page looks identical to the symptoms my plants are showing (once again). Now I'm a bit confused on what the heck to do? To pH or not to pH? These symptoms sound like they have arose possible due to not pH'ing and going from feeding At this point I'd have to assume they are starving since I haven't fed them in 25 days since I overfed them.

If these issues are due to pH fluctuations then what's your recommendation in my case? Again, if I mix the nutes, they are around 3.8-4 pH and my tap is 7.4 pH. It seems the plants are hating going from one extreme to the other I guess according to these symptoms. Are you recommending to just put a little of Grow in each watering to lower the pH? Basically slow feedings of grow and water to lower pH to mid 6, instead of once a week feedings at 4 pH and tap at 7.4 pH? I also have Recharge and Fish Shit. How often should I be using those? Thank you.

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Are you bubbling the nutes first? My first grow I bubbled Earth Juice every feed at a lower dosage along with some EWC and my plants were super happy. Earth Juice and Roots are similar.

I'm using more dry amendments anymore, trying to be able to just give plain water, but it's a learning process, so I still use bottled nutes sometimes. They work good as a pH down too if your plants need the nutes also. But I mostly give em plain water.

All I can tell you about Fish Shit is that it reaks that a mother fucker. They had some free samples at the hydro shop one day, and the guy was telling me to grab a few to try, because he wanted to get rid of them since that shit stinks so bad. He just said "Don't open it in here" kinda frantically, and I said cool. Well, as he was ringing me up, he knocked one of the bottles on the floor, lol. Let's just say after smelling that SHIT, it will be for outdoor plants only, lol.