Sativa VS Indica: Feeding 101

"Strains that have heavy nutrient requirements get more Super Soil and short, slow Indicas that require less food get less concentrate." Subcool


So i just started cooking my first SS batch and i usually like to grow several strains on my perpetual harvest scheme. I wanted to know if one could follow Sub advice for each and every strains? Are Sativas heavier feeder than indicas?

Now you "advanced" guys are gonna tell me that the only way to know about a strain - or one of it's phenotype -is to grow it several time, see how it goes and adapt.
It is better to underfeed the plant than overfeed them, my guess with a non TGA strain would be to start with a little less than 50% supersoil and go for a top dressing at week 3/4 of bloom for a 8/9 weeker.

What puzzled me is that in the school of Dank Sub said that Cheese hated SS and i'm pretty sure of seeing him in later videos saying that cheese based strains were heavy feeders. Now cheese is more of an indica than a sativa...(Indica's are suppose to be light feeders for those who are high reading this ).
I then thought it came down to the time a plant spends blooming - the more time she has the more SS, wich seems logic - but here again Subs come up with Sativa dominant strains that finish much faster than DNA Kushes. Should i still put more SS in A13 than in let say Kosher Kush that takes 10 week and is a pretty heavy feeder? (Still basing my guess on the indica vs sativa thing)

It's all about triall and errors i know but it would be good to try to put together everyone info on supersoil with TGA and non TGA strains. When some Kushes like a lot of food, some sativas are light feeder and weeks in bloom dont mean much with hybrids as far as indica/sativa %, well we're lucky to have a forum where we can exchange the data.

Have a great day!

how can you tell what the plant is using in soil? I have always understood that in soil growing you amened the soil before hand to include all of the food. the plant then takes what it needs as and when. and beneficial teas at the right times keep things tip top!?

so bearing that in mind it dont matter whether its and indica or sativa, you just need a base that will cover her needs.

indicas generally flower under 60days, and sativa's go as long as they want, so you would obv need the basic food supply to last longer if growing a longer flowering strain!!!

Nutrient requirements will be the same, save if longer flowering is in store, then more is needed. I am currently growi g both landrace mazar-I-sharif, collect in the valley by a US soldier. In the same te t I am Lso growig Panama s1 and a panam x willy nelson (believed to be). These are fed thhe same nutrients every day. It will differentiate as the m-I-s approached the harvest window weeks before the Panama's. Good luck.

Peace

Hey guys!

The thing is: we're trying to be as specific as possible with the amount of super soil (nutrients) you put in to avoid doing a top dress that only comes up as a last resort - once applied it's much harder to estimate how much nutrients got in and you might end up putting more/mess than needed.

You want the amount of supersoil to be enough to push the genetics to her best as far as resin, terpenes and overall production goes but not to much in that she doesnt fade from 2/3 weeks before harvest.

Have a great day!

its hard to explain and im not using this as a scape goat, but this is were you need to have a green thumb. you need to have enough experience to be able to look at a foot tall plant n gussetimate what it will need.

the only way to do what you are suggesting my friend is trial and error.....e.g DNA lemon skunk....10 seeds grown out all in the same weak soil mix in this case 1/4 super soil, 1/4 roots organic and 1/2 perlite for arguments sake.

you would choose the best female, and clone.

with the clones you would need to run 5 - 10 clones in seperate buckets, same enviroment, and adjust the amount of super soil used bucket 1 containing 1/4 ssoil, pot 2 has 1/2 etc.

this way you would be able to see round abouts the best amount of super soil for THAT ONE CLONE.

this process would then have to be repeated every time you want a new strain. and growing weeds enough work! just my 2cents!!

Yeah i totally understand that each strain is different and in every strains come dozens of phenotypes that have their own characteristics. What i wanted to do was to try to get together as much data as possible about people experience with super soil dosage with the strains they worked with.

I believe that when Sub said that Sativa are heavier feeder than indica it was a mainline for the people learning. But as nerd i'm sure we could go past that statement as clearly - Sub wouldnt disagree i'm sure - things are more complex than that.
We're lucky enough to have hundreds of experienced grower that use super soil and have grown some bad ass genetics it would be cool to have them report on what percentage they use with each strains they've work with. I'm thinking of making a simple excel file so people that want to use super soil could refer to that table according to the strain - or familly of the strain - they want to grow.

Sure growing is all about making things work with what you have. Af first it's because you cant do otherwise then it's because you think you've found something that works best for you but as i'm just starting with super soil i thought it would be best to start from a good base before i start guessing

I'm sure some of the data could be collected all over the web but if you work with super soil and read this thread please just drop the percentage you usually use to get that perfect production/good fading ratio with each strain you've been working with. Again i'll try my best to put all the data in an excell file if there's enough to make something relevant.

Thanks in advance!

i think your trying to do the impossible.

some people think super soil is shit, others swear by it. i dont know myself but some times its easy to get swept up in a particular product.

i have a spot in my backyard, i put a plant in it and leave it till its done, i couldnt tell you anything about the soil other then its been there 70+ years at least.

it always produces a great plant.

super soil is just a tool to help you achieve your overall goal nothing more.

and for what its worth Ive heard 50% super soil to 50% organic potting soil is the perfect mix. but then ive also heard people using the bottom half of the hole super soil and the top half potting soil, meaning that when the plants finds the super soil they explode!

cannabis is as complicated or as easy as you make it!

GOOD LUCK!!! lk

The way i see supersoil is like the perfect land - call it eden - where plants get the perfect amount of each and every nutrient they need in just the right amount needed. This place doesnt exist in real life and some places have much better profile then others when it comes to growing herb.

I believe that Subcool did the trial and error part for us. It might not be perfect but just like what i intend to do with the list it's a great starting point for people willing to grow their herb in a perfect organic environment.

Trust me i'm not trying to make things complicated just for the sake of it nor am i being dogmatic about super soil. It's just a recipe but one somebody has been working on for years and has shown pretty amazing result with.

Again just trying to put together data for those who have/want to work with super soil...

SHvisitor, This is exactly what I have been attempting to gathering the last few months on my own.

I harvested my first crop last month and am ready to start with TGA for my next grow. I have been obsessed trying to find amounts of supersoil to use per TGA strain. I have sifted through tons of threads on this forum and am currently in the process of watching Subcool's entire youtube library gathering data. Nugbuckets mentions several strains and how much he uses, or suspects he would use. I'm sure you're familiar with him and his bad ass main-lining techniques? Because Nugbuckets main-lines his plants, it's possible that the ratios Nugbuckets uses may differ than Subcool (or anyone else's) method of growing, for example, Subcool uses 10 gallon pots, while Nugbuckets uses 7 or 8 gallon.

So, everything I have posted below came from Subcool or Nugbuckets regarding Super Soil. It's not a lot, but all I have. I hope this helps. Please share your Excel file when it's compiled.

Oh and I know exactly what you mean about the Cheese. I am unsure what is best for this strain. On a couple videos Subcool mentions that Cheese gets very little to no Super Soil because it hates it. But meanwhile on Subcool's revised 2010 Super Soil recipe he states, "With strains requiring high levels of nutrients like Cheese and Space Queen and other high energy demand strains, we go as strong as ¾ of the container with Super Soil but this is only with a small percentage of strains." I am also confused on if Cheese is a heavy or light feeder...

Jack's Cleaner- a little more than 50%, as per Sub's transplanting video
Third Dimension- Subcool states that (it) "...is a moderate feeder."
Space Queen- Subcool- "...wants almost 60%."
Cheese- Subcool- "...wants almost zero." He also said, "Cheese absolutely hates Super soil and will not tolerate it."OG Kush-Subcool "...is a lighter feeder in SS I would use less that 25%."
Plushberry- Nugbuckets- "...I hear she likes about 40%."
Agent Orange- Nugbuckets- 40-45%
Jillybean- Nugbuckets- "40ish"

Since a lot of this unknown and will vary from strain to strain under different circumstances, I leave this that was posted by Nugbuckets as a general rule of thumb:

duster74 you're a legend!

I thought this thread would die and even if it does know i'm sure glad someone like you posted something like this, it means to me that sooner or later somebody else will come back with the same thread - who knows there might be an order one in the riu archive hehe

I have read the entire Nugbucket mainlining thread and might read the nugbucketlab as well one of this days. He sure does a great work and his technique is close to genius - where genius comes from simple things no one can figure.

I'll have to be a "percentage" digger just like you and go through the several grow journal etc to try to implement that excel file, but just like your black belt in jiu jitsu even if it's at age 60 what martter is to get it. I'll sure share that once it's done, i've learned a lot over here and if i can add my piece to the puzzle if would be a pleasure.

Peace!

Ps: The way you edited your text scream: "NERD" (in the good way), precision, love it haha

Haha, thanks for the kind words. Yeah I have been taking notes like crazy on Super Soil, Nugbucket's main-lining techniques, and practically everything nerd related. I forgot to mention in my previous post about Cheese Quake. RIU user SpicySativa has a very interesting grow journal on some Cheese Quakes from last summer. He used 50% SS but ran into some trouble about half way through flowering. I think it wasn't enough, which fits Subcool's description that it needs 3/4 SS. I'd really like to know his final thoughts on it, but since I am still a "stranger," I am unable to PM him.

Yeah, I highly recommend reading Nugbuckets Lab. He also has another thread that's well worth reading, especially if you plan to main-line. It came out before the Lab and Mainline thread....I can't seem to find the link, however.

I hope other's contribute to this thread as I think it can help a lot of us Nerds!

Got some news strains to add to the list:

Episode #22 weed nerd:

.Qush/Bubba Kush hybrid -> not heavy feeder (5'30") - 40%

Episode #42 weed nerd:

.JTR -> 50%
.Cheese -> 3 inches
.Bubba Kush -> 40%
.A13 -> 60%
.Black Cherry Soda -> 3 inches

All the infos in #42 comes at 22'15".

Peace!

That's awesome bro! The list is getting bigger. Interesting he says 3 inches for Cheese...that's not very much. I hope other member's contribute to their findings. Good work! I'll continue posting amounts as I find them.

Same thing here i'm back on watching close to every old weed nerd episode. Little bit of fast forward here and there so dont blame me if i miss anything

It seems like straight Cheese is the one that doesnt like the super soil, but Chesse's cross can take more super soil. That's the only logic behind that all Cheese situation haha

Peace!

I'd start of with a third but leave room to top dress, also if growing TGA gear go back through subs channel. One thing he got memo though was that he said sativas were heavy feeders and indicas weren't.
whenever I've bottled fed indicas take whatever u give them and sativas usually are fussy and don't like much.

so do u think when subs says their heavy feeders he means they are usually going to go longer so need more nutes to stop fading too early!

Ya see, I have the proper exodus cut, and she's a heavy feeder with bottled nutes, she does go a bit longer than others though, I chop her round day 68-70, and my plan looks identical to subs in veg, has the exact same leaf formation.

I thought the exact same thing, most of my indicas could take heavy level of "bottled" nutes when sativa would be much pickier about what they wanted...

The sativs being longer - does that still stands with TGA gears though? - they need "more" food and with super soil being a "according to each amendment" nutrient it adapts to the plant life cycle. If that theory was correct though - supersoil nutrients have different time release unlike bottled nutes that feed the plant straight away - indica wouldnt need less food but less of the ingredient that takes longer to release...

You're a lucky sob for having that exodus cut i could, if time goes on on would, kill someone for that baby hehe, hopping very hard that eskobar will be my way to a good exodus pheno

Peace!

The closest thing I've found to the cheese was in hybrids, I had a cheese leaning cheesequake that smell and taste the same, just leaf structure was different.
whenever I've grown beans that supposedly cheese, ghs, Kaliman, big Buddha, the are all crap, wouldn't waste my time.
Ive grown esko's stuff before and he's a sound breeder, classic seeds has some good stuff too, all reasonable prices too.

a thing I'd say about the amounts of SS to use, it's depends on what recipe ur following, if its subs Id prob go light to start with as g's superhot. But side wings amended recipe isn't as hot, I saw he wrote that when he pots up into final pot it's basically straight super soil.

Actually - the patience learning curve although the most important is the slowest - i've used some of my cooking super soil to top the veging plant that will go next and 2 plants in bloom and they loved it. Didnt used much not to burn them but the little i've dropped made their leaf go upward like they were praying the Gods haha, and their color got much better, wouldnt say darker but deeper.

I aint exactly using the same recipe in that i didnt use - most of it so far lol but that'll be fix soon - pure worm casting. I've used mainly Royal Mix that's supposedly the most packed with worm casting.
I also added a manure + algae mix containing humic acid that's suppose to act like worm casting, the seller told me it was a little hotter - i've putted half a bag instead of two for the worm casting - but it'll do the job. I also read that manure would make the cooking faster...

Anyway i wouldnt take my case as an example as i'm far from using the same exact recipe, but sidewings recipe doesnt hurt my plants even after a week of cooking only.

Can't wait to order the rest of my shit to get this done

duster74 said:

Haha, thanks for the kind words. Yeah I have been taking notes like crazy on Super Soil, Nugbucket's main-lining techniques, and practically everything nerd related. I forgot to mention in my previous post about Cheese Quake. RIU user SpicySativa has a very interesting grow journal on some Cheese Quakes from last summer. He used 50% SS but ran into some trouble about half way through flowering. I think it wasn't enough, which fits Subcool's description that it needs 3/4 SS. I'd really like to know his final thoughts on it, but since I am still a "stranger," I am unable to PM him.

Yeah, I highly recommend reading Nugbuckets Lab. He also has another thread that's well worth reading, especially if you plan to main-line. It came out before the Lab and Mainline thread....I can't seem to find the link, however.

I hope other's contribute to this thread as I think it can help a lot of us Nerds!

Click to expand...

Just thought id chip in here!! i mainly grow dwc, running hydro gives you complete control over which nutes the plants get and when. bearing this in mind, allot of growers (not noob sorry) say how much cheese produces considering it eats nothing. it is a super light feeder and hates additives, in all shape and form.

this is from grower experiences involving barneys farm blue cheese, big bhuddas blue cheese, kalimans cheese, dina fems cheese and cheese bomb. only on the phenos that were most cheesey in the crosses were also light feeders. now im assuming as i havent checked that our very own exodus cheese is one of the parents in most (prob all) cheese strains......

the same is true with my dna lemon skunk, super light feeder needs loads of mag (ta jozkins)......however if we take the super lemon haze (its dnas baby ) you can really crank the nutes up on her.

so i suppose the question you should ask is....whether or not a particular strain is a heavy feeder or not and as nearly all avalible strains are a hybrid i dont think you can say indica this or sativa that. this would also be very useful in general to all gardeners not just subcool/tga peeps.

e.g i have purchased green house seeds kalashnikova.....i come on here and look it up.....you tell me its a light feeder...so if im using super soil OR hydro i know that she wont need allot.

what do you think???