Safe to say LED technology is almost or equal to HID's?

I remember years ago when LED grow lighting came out people would debate it's not worth investing in as the technology is just not there. Are we there yet? Is it worth to invest heavily on LED's for a small grow?

Please, someone has to have been following LED technology these past couple of years

something wrong with those grow reports all over the led section?

lax123 said:

something wrong with those grow reports all over the led section?

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I don't think that was a answer to my question...

Whats investing "heavily" for a small grow?
Sorry i guess I dont get u. I thought it would be as easy as looking at some of the reports see their result and see what they invested.

Also maybe look at this.
http://www.ledgrow.eu/

Heavily investing?

I dare say that most people that have 2-12 plants could benefit from it. Your investment into it, is your choice. The cheap lamps will always be cheap lamps, and replacement parts from a foreign country are a PITA. A few decent LED companies have parts assembled or made in China, but service warranties with English speaking people inside North America. If you're in another country, look for people who can service or send you parts as needed(within your continent).

There isn't a conversion factor of equivalency, "This XXXwatt LED will outperform a 400W HPS" claims are usually garbage. You don't need 13 different wavelengths of LED's either, that's a myth.

http://www.viparled.co.uk/
or http://www.ledgrow.eu/ (posted above as well)
I'd go with those if you're in Europe

North America
Apache Tech
Area 51
Lumigrow
California Light Works
... and I'm forgetting a few others.

BSD0621 said:

I don't think that was a answer to my question...

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I actually think it's a quite good answer. Look at the grow reports and the lamps people are using - what more do you need to know?

agree, invest some time in it yourself, but yes LEDs have made a pretty big jump the last few years, I began to look at em 18 months ago when I got a 600W HPS and made the switch 5 months ago and is on my 3th grow with em, and Im more then happy with em so fare

but there are pro and cons, like with most others, best thing about LEDs is that they produce next to no heat, and can if used probably grow dank pretty close to a HPS, maybe even with a bit better potency, but they don't spread out the light like a big HID bulb, pretty much one directed, so need to cover most of your grow in panels

and as with most other stuff, you get what you pay for, so don't go cheap and get some Chinese Ufo on e-bay with old technology inside, do some research and find them few shop`s that make/sell quality panels (or build em yourself) IMO you need to find them with 3W or even 5W LEDs and with the double lenses technology and with atleast 7 spectrum light 9 is to prefer, and agin IMO with some White LEDs in em to cover the hole spectrum or buy from a place where you can customize it yourself

like I did with my first panel

PetFlora said:

I have long been a proponent of WHITE power, as it relates to leds....

....I would be more inclined if it was 70:30 650-660

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You crack me up Pet...

Besides some people trying to promote their panels, what are the advantages of a full red spectrum over all white? If there are any

Who has just a full red spectrum?

brotherjericho said:

Who has just a full red spectrum?

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Believe it or not someone people are still stuck on sticking to a full red spectrum in the real world for flowering thinking it's the best. But science show's that it's better to have a wide range of spectrum's.

I know some UFO's are available in all red. I'm not aware of an "all red" flowering panel. If you're not comfortable "advertising" the name, you can PM it to me. I'd like to at least read their specs and theories.

I have looked at the led threads and browsed the internet for led prices. I cant afford what they want for a good led light right now. I am going to wait at least another 2-3 years hoping they will go down in price and I think they will go down. As far as the threads of people growing with them I have seen amazing results but most of them are paying outlandish prices for them also. I usually only do around 4 plants at a time so I feel I just wont generate any more bud than using a mh/hps right now to make it worth it to me. But heh if money is no issue why not buy some of those lights and give it a try. I'm confident in the next few years the price will come down enough where a lot of people will start phasing out their hid lights in favor of the led lights.

djwimbo said:

I know some UFO's are available in all red. I'm not aware of an "all red" flowering panel. If you're not comfortable "advertising" the name, you can PM it to me. I'd like to at least read their specs and theories.

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LED Wholesalers carries them. I went there to get a link and lo-and-behold 2 x 2 panels http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1031

but their 2 x 2 price is um, S-T-E-E-P @ $200 2 x 4 @ $275

Red Panel http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=399 $135

Thx for the link, I knew I had seen a UFO all red, couldn't remember who made it.

Hydroponic leds are a ripoff so far, were still on 2-3 watt diodes when offroad lights have 26 watt diodes and put out intesity better than their hid counterparts.

I come from a different hobby that has been using LEDs for a decade now (Reef Aquariums). When LED lights first came out (PFO Solaris) they cost around $3000 and used 1w LEDs. Today I can build a better light using 3w LEDs for under $200. As far as intensity, SPS corals require much more intense light than any plant I know of. I also have about 24" of saltwater to penetrate to reach some of the corals. With my 50w LED light I made for my 4' tank I am able to kill corals with too much light if I don't dim it down properly. I used to run over 540w of MH/T5s on the same tank and never could nuke corals with light like I can with LEDs. The reason this happens on that hobby with LEDs is corals use the blue spectrum, and when people put in Royal Blue LEDs their output is so much higher than other types of lighting at just the right spectrum for photosynthesis it causes photo-inhibition in corals fairly quickly if you are not careful. I find it odd that in this hobby there still seems to be quite a bit of debate on the topic.

No one's responded yet, so I'll wing it.

Blue LED's are really efficient. Cannabis, with its demanding spectral requirements such as high quantities of Yellow/Orange/Red, isn't quite as lucky with efficiency losses at the phosphor level, or overall lower chip efficiency when compared to Blue. Reef guys have it easier since these colors are mostly filtered out by the depth of water... Well, at least in nature they are, so you purposefully don't produce much of these colors in order to recreate the illusion -if only to your plants- that they're at that same depth. Anyway, this makes your plants' needs not only easier to diagnose (you've only got maybe three main colors to change the intensity levels of to find their "sweet spot"), but as it happens you're needs are predominantly sitting right at the peak of LED efficiency (not to be confused with efficacy). Also, keep in mind a lot of tanks have light requirements within the ballpark of a pretty budget grow op. Arguably, 50W of LED just gets you out of a computer case and into a kitchen cabinet in terms of grow space. Upfront cost gets out of control quickly and is usually the turn off for most.

I agree Bumping Spheda about efficiency of blue LEDs and color rendition on a reef tank. We prefer a blue look to mimic nature at a certain depth in the ocean, and wanting that blue look is what leads to killing corals with too much light when using Royal blue LEDs. That is why the light I made for the grow closet uses 98 LEDs vs 24 on my aquarium and uses 215w of power vs 50w, even though the grow box and aquarium are almost identical in size. I guess I just can't understand how anyone growing a plant can think LEDs can't compare to other lighting when we have been able to mimic the sun with LEDs over a reef tank and grow much more light demanding things.

This was the layout for my first 'full spectrum' LED light for one of my aquariums. It matched the sun in PAR output (I ended up killing my corals because it was so deceiving to the eye and I also found out it is impossible to compare PAR to PAR between lighting technologies).





And my LED algae scrubber used to filter the tanks. I was the first one to use Red/Blue LEDs when everyone else told me it wouldn't work for that purpose. Now everyone uses them.