Runnoff cannot be trusted.

GroBud

GroBud

Well-Known Member
Hiphophippo said:
I don’t check runoff or my water ph or ec or anything. I watch my light height and pay close attention to what’s in my soil and haven’t had any issues yet that aren’t immediately correctable. I add in recharge, epsom salt, fish guts and teas all through the grow I just pay attention to where I’m at time wise in the grow and add accordingly.growing weed is a simple endeavor if you don’t let all the nonsense take over your grow keep it simple and grow some killer buds. Some people find it more comforting to know every aspect of the plants life I just find it more comforting to keep it simple and let the plant do it’s thing. I see my plants probably four times a day and watch for issues before there a problem.
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You also grow organically keeping microbes happy liquids dont consider microbial health as they dont need to they are readily available completely different growing methods.
 
Hiphophippo

Hiphophippo

Well-Known Member
Well that makes sense sorry I know I posted s
GroBud said:
You also grow organically keeping microbes happy liquids dont consider microbial health as they dont need to they are readily available completely different growing methods.
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well that makes sense I posted something here before I thought we were talking about soil.
 
GroBud

GroBud

Well-Known Member
Hiphophippo said:
Shit I don’t know what I did in that post sorry for that anyway I thought we where talking about soil
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Yea I was talking about soil. Using liquid nutrients that have a available ph range you have to ph to that range in order for plants to be able to take up that nutrient given. If someone uses grow big for instance without phing yes plants will consume some of that nutrient but there are available ph levels that allow for more of that nutrient to be absorbed. Growing organically that doesn't feed plants and is not readily available as long as microbes are happy no ph will be needed. Actually phing can harm organic soil as citric acid can adversely effect microbial life, which are what majority of ph down is.
 
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xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
In my hydroponics class last semester, they devoted an entire module to leachate in soiless media. I'm surprised that you guys haven't heard of it being a thing.
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Oh I understand. There is a significant amount of good information and scientific studies regarding the topic. Large scale growing is one thing. A small hobby grow of a few plants like many on the forum have you should be able to manage a few plants without the need to bother with measuring runoff. There's people running in circles chasing runoff measurements like a dog chasing its tail and only making what was probably a minor issue or no issue at all to begin with worse.

For instance, I've seen posts where someone felt that their runoff pH was too high so they start pouring 4.0 pH water onto their plants to get the runoff pH lower. If you ask them what the plants look like they say they look healthy but yet they're trying to correct something that isn't a problem.

This is another topic I think I'll refrain from commenting on in the future. If people want to check their runoff that's their business. It doesn't have any effect on my life or my plants so it's none of my business.


bongsmilie
:peace:
 
kwigybo88

kwigybo88

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
While that's true, checking runoff proactively can help you to prevent an overfeeding issue in the first place. If you are seeing your runoff EC continuously rise, that's an indication to cut back on feed, or increase feed intervals. Sure, you could not check it, and wait until the plant is clearly showing issues, but then you are suddenly having to hyper-correct the issue in effort to revive an unhealthy plant.
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Given the CEC of coco, the EC will rise over time even when plants are being fed exactly what they need. Waste of time afaic. Read the plant, its obvious when you're overfeeding long before the plant crosses the line into 'unhealthy.'
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
GroBud said:
Yea I was talking about soil. Using liquid nutrients that have a available ph range you have to ph to that range in order for plants to be able to take up that nutrient given. If someone uses grow big for instance without phing yes plants will consume some of that nutrient but there are available ph levels that allow for more of that nutrient to be absorbed. Growing organically that doesn't feed plants and is not readily available as long as microbes are happy no ph will be needed. Actually phing can harm organic soil as citric acid can adversely effect microbial life, which are what majority of ph down is.
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Citric acid won't hurt microbes unless you use a crazy amount and get the pH way off neutral. But so will any crazy pH levels. It's not the citric acid, it's the pH.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
GroBud said:
No need I'm good not phing organic soil
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I don't adjust my pH either, but my well water is 7.8. If it was crazy high I'd use a little citric to try to keep it somewhat closer to neutral. Same if it was super acidic, but I'd add silica or something then.

My point is any acids will hurt microbes if you use too much. It's not the acid though, it's the pH level. Some microbes like a little more acidic soil than neutral, and some like a little less, so if you stay close to the middle you should be keeping them both somewhat happy.
 
GroBud

GroBud

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
I don't adjust my pH either, but my well water is 7.8. If it was crazy high I'd use a little citric to try to keep it somewhat closer to neutral. Same if it was super acidic, but I'd add silica or something then.

My point is any acids will hurt microbes if you use too much. It's not the acid though, it's the pH level. Some microbes like a little more acidic soil than neutral, and some like a little less, so if you stay close to the middle you should be keeping them both somewhat happy.
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Look unless you have a microscope and you're down there monitoring microbial activity you have no clue like I do can only go off what you read. My tap is 9.2 they get watered straight from the water hose. Crazy how people who ph organic soil wind up here with ph issues using tap. Makes more sense to me that it does have a adverse effect as I said didn't say it would hurt or them phing orgainc wouldnt be an issue. I never advise to use ph with organic soil until that soil is depleted and they start a regiment of liquids.

I said harm soil adversely effect microbes. Phing soil that already has a neutral ph will lower that soils ph in a adverse way harming soil and nutrient availability. Effecting microbes in a adverse way due to them not being able to hold a balanced ph, creating a acidic soil
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
GroBud said:
Look unless you have a microscope and you're down there monitoring microbial activity you have no clue like I do can only go off what you read. My tap is 9.2 they get watered straight from the water hose. Crazy how people who ph organic soil wind up here with ph issues using tap. Makes more sense to me that it does have a adverse effect as I said didn't say it would hurt or them phing orgainc wouldnt be an issue. I never advise to use ph with organic soil until that soil is depleted and they start a regiment of liquids.

I said harm soil adversely effect microbes. Phing soil that already has a neutral ph will lower that soils ph in a adverse way harming soil and nutrient availability. Effecting microbes in a adverse way due to them not being able to hold a balanced ph, creating a acidic soil
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Your tap is 9.2? No wonder some of your soil tests read 9.3, :wall:

is this light burn ?

All three grows were fine until light was increased to 720 still dont' see light burn. see lots of burnt leaf tips though. why would you turn it up to 100% on the 2nd or 3rd time if you thought it was light burn??
www.rollitup.org
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
It's true that you should use something like phosphoric acid in soil as a ph adjuster as opposed to citric acid, if you want to protect your microbial soil life.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
kwigybo88 said:
Given the CEC of coco, the EC will rise over time even when plants are being fed exactly what they need. Waste of time afaic. Read the plant, its obvious when you're overfeeding long before the plant crosses the line into 'unhealthy.'
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Yes, EC will rise over time in coco, but it's not a waste of time to check runoff, if you know how to read your results appropriately. I don't check my runoff these days, but I have in the past, and it helped me to dial my feed in.
 
GroBud

GroBud

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
Your tap is 9.2? No wonder some of your soil tests read 9.3, :wall:

is this light burn ?

All three grows were fine until light was increased to 720 still dont' see light burn. see lots of burnt leaf tips though. why would you turn it up to 100% on the 2nd or 3rd time if you thought it was light burn??
www.rollitup.org
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When did I say that, that has never came from me highest I've read is 7.7
 

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