Recommended height for air-cooled 1000W HPS?

murtymaker · Aug 4, 2008

In my 4x4 to solve a lot of this problem I have purchased a Hydrofarm Growzilla dual bulb reflector. I could throw 2 1000's in it and top 300,000 lumens but I don't need it. Instead I have a 400w mh and a 600w hps.
During veg growth I use the 400mh until about half way. Then I add the 600hps and leave it like that until the last 3 weeks of flowering. Then i take out the 400mh and replace it with 400hps +600hps. I use a fraction of the power and have better result with the added bonus of dual spectrum.[/QUOTE]

Oh man, now you've put me through a loop on my future plans. So what ur saying is the SUN itself will put out 160,000 lumens in a 4x4 area right ? 10,000(lumens sun puts out) x 16(sqf of 4x4) = 160,000. So anymore lumens than that and the plants can't use it? Is this true? I swore that I learned that there is no such thing as too much light.

cloudflyer · Aug 4, 2008

murtymaker said:
Oh man, now you've put me through a loop on my future plans. So what ur saying is the SUN itself will put out 160,000 lumens in a 4x4 area right ? 10,000(lumens sun puts out) x 16(sqf of 4x4) = 160,000. So anymore lumens than that and the plants can't use it? Is this true? I swore that I learned that there is no such thing as too much light.

The sun puts out about 10,000 lumens at the closest point on the earth. This place is constantly changing between the tropics of Capricorn and cancer. Since the earth is tilted at 23 1/2 deg. Where it is depends on the time of year. (winter and summer solstice). Thats a lot of light considering at 36" light is diminished to 1/6 it original lumen. The sun is pretty far away. So if you have a 150,000 lumen light 36" away that is 25000 lumens. 2 1/2 x more light than the sun. At 36" you have a decent size footprint too.

To much light is fine as long as it dosen't come with to much radiant heat. But there is no point. Your plant can only process co2, water, nutes and light so fast. Yes you can iron your shirt with a steam roller, but why fork over the expence of rental fees, transpertation, and fuel when an iron is $12 at walmart. It costs a lot of money to run 150,000 lumens. At 36" in a 4x4 you have plenty of light for robust growth and yet you could have more light with a 400w (55000 lumen at 1 foot) at 15" for less than half the cost.

johnny5fingers · Aug 4, 2008

Your going to have to do some trial and error to find the best distance for your variety and hood.
If your hood is ventilated enough you can probably put it 10 inches from the plants.
You may find some plants will leach out on the top leaves by putting it this close.
A 1000 watter will disperse the light out more evenly at 20 inches or so, and still give you good growth.
Good luck.

stucklikechuck · Aug 4, 2008

this is a great post! we have an air cooled dual socket cooltube with 2 1000w MH bulbs in it attached to a light mover. this is lighting a 4x8 table with 32 plants. how high should the tube be during veg? during flower we will replace the bulb with HPS. how high should the tube be from the plants then? thanks for any help.

cloudflyer · Aug 4, 2008

stucklikechuck said:
this is a great post! we have an air cooled dual socket cooltube with 2 1000w MH bulbs in it attached to a light mover. this is lighting a 4x8 table with 32 plants. how high should the tube be during veg? during flower we will replace the bulb with HPS. how high should the tube be from the plants then? thanks for any help.

With a 4x8 table and 32 plants (1 plant per square foot) Each cool tube can easily cover a 4x4 (1/2) area without needing to be moved at all. 24" is as close as I would ever get.

If you have the amperage left. Get a 400w (in another tube) switchable ballast. I use Lumatek because they use less power, put out more light, run cool, and cost $169. Anyway if you put that one in the middle when you have your two MH running put a 400 hps in for a little spectrum bonus. When you put your 2 big hps in, put a 400mh in the middle. The plants have all the lumens they need. This will give them a little spectrum too.

murtymaker · Aug 5, 2008

New plan Cloudflyer, tell me if this is bullseye. 4x5 growspace =20sqf. I get a 8" duct dual cooltube reflector one 1000w HPS at 145,000 lumens and the other bulb 1000w MH at 90,000 lumens =11,750 lumens psqf (hps + mh = 235,000lumens / 20sqf = 11,750 lumens psqf).
I'll have the reflector 24" away from the tops so that distance should bring the lumens down to about 8,000-10,000 lumens psqf. Sounds like a good plan w/ the advice you've given me about lumens right? Plus I still want 1000w bulbs cuz I think they keep the nugs denser. Thanks for your help, this sounds like the best set-up for me.

growordie · Aug 5, 2008

I have never had a problem from light being too close! The advantages of having a vented light is to move your plants closer! the closer the lights the more penetration to the bottom branches. see how bushey those mother fuckers are? Watch your buds develop all the way throught the branches when you keep your light that close! Get a light/mositure/soil ph/ fertility meter for 20 bucks. watch how you hit a 6 on the light scale at your pot base with lights that close. Keep um as close as you can if you see a burnt top hair move um up an inch. I keep mine at 8-10 - 6 inches off the top of the cannopy, I rotate my plants evey other day, and keep a 4 ft mother 6 inches away from 1000wts. 10inch vortex cools 4-8' inch 1000wt sunsystem lights. 6 inch cools 2 1000wt's and an 8inch fan will cool 3 1000 watt lights. But you can keep 9 of those plants under one light to produce maxum bud. If the plants are not moving at all keep them 10-12 inches away, Trust a commerical grower on the bennifits of close lights It works for us it can work for you too, Good luck noob!

cloudflyer · Aug 5, 2008

murtymaker said:
New plan Cloudflyer, tell me if this is bullseye. 4x5 growspace =20sqf. I get a 8" duct dual cooltube reflector one 1000w HPS at 145,000 lumens and the other bulb 1000w MH at 90,000 lumens =11,750 lumens psqf (hps + mh = 235,000lumens / 20sqf = 11,750 lumens psqf).
I'll have the reflector 24" away from the tops so that distance should bring the lumens down to about 8,000-10,000 lumens psqf. Sounds like a good plan w/ the advice you've given me about lumens right? Plus I still want 1000w bulbs cuz I think they keep the nugs denser. Thanks for your help, this sounds like the best set-up for me.

You dont need 2000w in a 4x5 area. I would get a 400w switchable ballast and a 600hps dual bulb reflector. But 1 1000 switchable is more than enough needed for that area. Everyone seems so intent on using way to much power and more light than needed. It's like I am talking to 1000 Tim Allen's (hahaha More Power). In a 4x4 area you could use 1 400w and have good light. Could you use a little more sure. Maybe another 400, or a 600 multispectrum. absolutly. Even my 400, 600 combo puts out more light than I need. I am growing Aeroponicly with co2 so my plants can use a little more light but I still have more than needed with a combined wattage of 1000 and les lumens than a 1000hps.

cloudflyer · Aug 5, 2008

murtymaker said:
the lumens down to about 8,000-10,000 lumens psqf.

Lumens per square foot is used to determine how big your footprint is not how much light your plants are getting. Lumens per square foot does not take into account how light deminishes compared to distance away from the plant. I have a chart around here somewhere I will dig up tomorrow that show what I am talking about. Again 150,000 initial lumens (measured at one foot) is 25,000 lumens at 3 feet. So at 24 inches you have more than the plant can use.

cloudflyer · Aug 5, 2008

growordie said:
Trust a commerical grower on the bennifits of close lights It works for us it can work for you too, Good luck noob!

In my experience, everyone that has ever had to say out loud trust me, has not been very trust worthy. Perhaps insulting people by calling them noobs isn't the best way to get your point across (especially on a site devoted for learning.) Hell the fact that you used the word noob probably means that you don't have that many (if any) years under your belt. A person growing for say 10-20 years is prob in their thirties or forties. Anyone know any 30-40 year olds running around calling people noobs? Commercial grower huh? Im on to you buddy :hump:

If you disagree, sweet we can bounce ideas and experience off each other. I have been taught plenty of things by people on this site. But if you just want to be a dick then piss off.

That Smell · Aug 5, 2008

Have 1,000 watt lights. Air cooled. 18" works for me. Move them closer everyday a few inches and the plant will tell you when its to close then measure that distance hang a string and weight from the lamp and maintain that distance.

cloudflyer · Aug 5, 2008

I gotta go to bed but it is importat to say that if your lights are to close, just because your plant is not showing signs off distress, dosen't mean it is not devoting resources to cool the plant rather than using them for production.

murtymaker · Aug 5, 2008

Well Im growing aero as well cloudflyer. So how many sites do you have in your 4x4 area and what kind of yeilds are you pulling w/ a 400 & 600?

growordie · Aug 5, 2008

cloudflyer said:
In my experience, everyone that has ever had to say out loud trust me, has not been very trust worthy. Perhaps insulting people by calling them noobs isn't the best way to get your point across (especially on a site devoted for learning.) Hell the fact that you used the word noob probably means that you don't have that many (if any) years under your belt. A person growing for say 10-20 years is prob in their thirties or forties. Anyone know any 30-40 year olds running around calling people noobs? Commercial grower huh? Im on to you buddy

If you disagree, sweet we can bounce ideas and experience off each other. I have been taught plenty of things by people on this site. But if you just want to be a dick then piss off.

Ok im sick of noobs with closed grows like you trying to give advice. You dont know shit, ive set up more grows than you have grown plants. This site is devoted to helping people out, I dont need help Im trying to pass on some knowlege that can be helpfull to a new grower. 10 years of growing on a "commerical scale" along with 32 years of experence from my fam gives me that right buddy. Im here to give back to the community you stupid fucking wanabee grower, go try that shit with another "thread" that you started. And choose your battles wisley young grower, because Ill call you out for the douch you are! Ive seen your postings you ask simple questions and give LOUD advice on how a grower should set there shit up? Why you such a dick that does not know shit?

Dude If you can keep the light that close and still keep the plants in the 75-79 range more power to you! Those lights only produce 10-25% of the suns energy. Good luck noob

Noob=rookie. Police,fireman, altheats, and a host of others refer to new member as rookies, noobs, green horns. Did the word noob offend you noob? this is not even your post if it was I would not have chimed in on a "know it all's" half ass closet grow who promotes cfl's haha. keep growing the little buds they make my shit woth its weight in gold! Thanks buddy for flooding the market with shitty grown pot!!

cloudflyer · Aug 5, 2008

growordie said:
Ok im sick of noobs with closed grows like you trying to give advice. You dont know shit, ive set up more grows than you have grown plants. This site is devoted to helping people out, I dont need help Im trying to pass on some knowlege that can be helpfull to a new grower. 10 years of growing on a "commerical scale" along with 32 years of experence from my fam gives me that right buddy. Im here to give back to the community you stupid fucking wanabee grower, go try that shit with another "thread" that you started. And choose your battles wisley young grower, because Ill call you out for the douch you are! Ive seen your postings you ask simple questions and give LOUD advice on how a grower should set there shit up? Why you such a dick that does not know shit?

Dude If you can keep the light that close and still keep the plants in the 75-79 range more power to you! Those lights only produce 10-25% of the suns energy. Good luck noob

Noob=rookie. Police,fireman, altheats, and a host of others refer to new member as rookies, noobs, green horns. Did the word noob offend you noob? this is not even your post if it was I would not have chimed in on a "know it all's" half ass closet grow who promotes cfl's haha. keep growing the little buds they make my shit woth its weight in gold! Thanks buddy for flooding the market with shitty grown pot!!

First of all, my closet grow was just because I had a short stent in an apartment.

There is no fucking way in hell you have set up more growers than I have grown plants. Just this one picture below will prove that.

I have never promoted cfl's so I don’t know where you got that from.

I have not really asked that many questions, 99% of my posts are answering them.Though I have still learned from people. "Good market research for my DVD"

You missed the point of the whole post read back. temps between 75 and 79 have nothing to do with radiant heat. READ THE WHOLE THREAD.

32 years from your family, by that logic I am an expert lawyer and chef because that’s what my parents do. I cant fucking cook and the last place I want to be is in a courtroom.

As for my shitty pot. That’s hilarious because every person I know, and that includes 5 people who OWN medical marijuana dispensaries litterly BEG me to grow for them, because my weed is "THE BEST THEY HAVE EVER HAD" That’s right Jack ass. I donate 3/4 of every crop to cancer patients directly through norml. I don't sell my shit at all. I give it to the people that need it because I am a cancer survivor myself. At 3 of those dispensaries I teach regular classes on growing and low and behold I am in talks right now with oaksterdam to teach there. I volunteer all my time for free. To top it all off I am dead smack in the middle of producing a advanced aeroponics/genetic breeding dvd. Some would say I am on the forefront of marijuana reform in America. What that again? You said you are a commercial grower huh. So your goal is to sling weed for profit. That pretty generous of you to help all those people for your personal gain.

Like I said before you came on a post, and started name calling because someone didn’t agree with you. You didn’t take the time to read the whole thread and you offered no solution. You just said “I am an expert, listen to me” and then started insulting people.
Bottom line, YOU HAVE 4 POSTS and ZERO PICTURES UP. YOU HAVE NO CREDITABILTY WHATSOEVER.

Ohh and I stand corrected newbe is actually in the dictonary
newbie

One entry found.

newbie

Main Entry: new·bie

Pronunciation: \ˈnü-bē, ˈnyü-\ Function: noun Usage: often attributive Etymology: irregular from new
: newcomer; especially : a newcomer to cyberspace

Thats funny, what do you call someone that has 4 posts, no pictures, and has been here a month?

P.S. I have been growing 11 years now

cloudflyer · Aug 5, 2008

murtymaker said:
Well Im growing aero as well cloudflyer. So how many sites do you have in your 4x4 area and what kind of yeilds are you pulling w/ a 400 & 600?

I have 3 seperate rooms.

2 4x4 rooms
1 sprinklers 1 1/2 oz per plant no co2
1 actual misters 2-3 oz per plant with co2

1 8x4 room (the pic in the above post) also mist nozzles

BeverlyRollins69 · Aug 5, 2008

Hey guys can we save the pissing contest for another thread? Thanks ya'll

My plants have grown up even more in the last few days and the tallest colas were about 5" from the light. Today I started noticing burnt leaf tips on the fan leaves. I've pulled down the tall tops so now there's nothing closer then about 10 inches. To do this I just attached a string, pulled the top so now it's angled away from the light instead of being 4 inches underneath, and taped the string to the back wall of my closet. After much debate this week, that 10" height seems to be what I've noticed is the cutoff for my plants.

Smiley Coyote · Sep 26, 2011

cloudflyer said:
Seriously, no disrespect intended but that is really bad advice. You are confusing temp with radiant heat. osc fans are not really for cooling they are for circulating co2 and building branches strong. If it was that close your plants WILL fry no matter what and they will go through water very fast to try and cool off. Then they will clog up and become toxic with all the nutes not being used. 1000w at 10 inches is absolutely insane.

I keep my plants, generally, within 10-14 inches of my 1000W dual arcs (not the same as HPS perhaps since only 600 of it is that spectrum) consistently and get absolutely no burn.

Smiley Coyote · Sep 26, 2011

cloudflyer said:
Its all about the senses right. If you touch something and it is warm then it is over 98.6 degrees. Plus if you are that close to the plant, the footprint you are giving off is tiny. A 400w at one foot hps is 55000 lumens. Why waste the power by having 1000w to cover 2 sq feet. The instructions on the box are right

If you touch water, or many substances for that matter, at 98 degrees it will feel HOT, not warm to most. Not everything transfers its heat at the same rate as everything else and glass will feel different than the air every time. If your humidity is a bit high, also, it will feel warmer and I have seen plants act as if they have heat stress just from the overall mugginess because that humid air is transferring the heat more quickly to the plants and they react.

Smiley Coyote · Sep 26, 2011

cloudflyer said:
The sun puts out about 10,000 lumens at the closest point on the earth. This place is constantly changing between the tropics of Capricorn and cancer. Since the earth is tilted at 23 1/2 deg. Where it is depends on the time of year. (winter and summer solstice). Thats a lot of light considering at 36" light is diminished to 1/6 it original lumen. The sun is pretty far away. So if you have a 150,000 lumen light 36" away that is 25000 lumens. 2 1/2 x more light than the sun. At 36" you have a decent size footprint too.

Yeah but what about high altitude strains. At high altitudes the atmosphere is much thinner (relates to higher altitude strains which are very common now) and you can get burnt to a crisp even quicker than in a warm and humid tropical environment. Perhaps that since that is mostly what I grow and that I have a low humidity environment that entails keeping all my flowering plants' tops within fifteen inches of the 1000W lamps that this explains all the disparity. According to some experts that I have been reading here, I cannot possibly be telling the truth about this. Maybe it's not that simple, folks.

Recommended height for air-cooled 1000W HPS?

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