Recommended height for air-cooled 1000W HPS?

BeverlyRollins69

Well-Known Member
The way I have my hood set up is like this. Everything is connected via 6" ducting. Keep in mind the bulb is in an air-cooled fixture (Sun System 2 reflector) that has built-in 6" flanges on both ends and a gasket around the glass on the bottom of the reflector.

Can filter 33 --> 1000W HPS --> 6" vortex fan --> Air expelled from room

So here's my question...

What's the minimum height that the light should be above the tops of my big Sativa-dominant plants, or any other strains for that matter? The books say 2.5 feet, but although it doesn't say so, I have a feeling that number is for traditional non-cooled lighting fixtures.
 

cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
The way I have my hood set up is like this. Everything is connected via 6" ducting. Keep in mind the bulb is in an air-cooled fixture (Sun System 2 reflector) that has built-in 6" flanges on both ends and a gasket around the glass on the bottom of the reflector.

Can filter 33 --> 1000W HPS --> 6" vortex fan --> Air expelled from room

So here's my question...

What's the minimum height that the light should be above the tops of my big Sativa-dominant plants, or any other strains for that matter? The books say 2.5 feet, but although it doesn't say so, I have a feeling that number is for traditional non-cooled lighting fixtures.
I would not put it any closer than 24"
 
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cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
if you run an oscilating fan over your plants you could have that 1000 as close as 10 inches probably closer put it as close as you can without catchin ur plants on fire.
Seriously, no disrespect intended but that is really bad advice. You are confusing temp with radiant heat. osc fans are not really for cooling they are for circulating co2 and building branches strong. If it was that close your plants WILL fry no matter what and they will go through water very fast to try and cool off. Then they will clog up and become toxic with all the nutes not being used. 1000w at 10 inches is absolutely insane.
 

-=4:20=-Guy

Well-Known Member
Its all about the senses. Simply place your wrist under the light and measure your comfort level. If your wrist is comfy so will be the plants if not move your wrist to a comfortable level and that shall be your distance.
 

BeverlyRollins69

Well-Known Member
Its all about the senses. Simply place your wrist under the light and measure your comfort level. If your wrist is comfy so will be the plants if not move your wrist to a comfortable level and that shall be your distance.
Well the vortex fan sucks so much air that I can actually put my hand on the glass and it's not too hot or uncomfortable. So going by your statement I don't need any clearance between the plant tops and the light. Is that right? That seems like a far cry from my book's 30" recommended clearance.
 

EyezofSnake

Well-Known Member
let me clear some things up. I have an air cooled 600 with a 6in 440 cfm fan on it. I can keep my hand on the glass.. not hot at all. I keep it about 7-10 inches above my plants.. No signs of burn whatsoever.

The plants are even closer now than in this pic. I have had to tie down some of the branches though.
 

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murtymaker

Well-Known Member
So should we put our 1000wHPS right on top of the plants if it's not hot at all? The closer the light the heavier the yield?
 

cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
Its all about the senses. Simply place your wrist under the light and measure your comfort level. If your wrist is comfy so will be the plants if not move your wrist to a comfortable level and that shall be your distance.
Its all about the senses right. If you touch something and it is warm then it is over 98.6 degrees. Plus if you are that close to the plant, the footprint you are giving off is tiny. A 400w at one foot hps is 55000 lumens. Why waste the power by having 1000w to cover 2 sq feet. The instructions on the box are right
 
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cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
Well the vortex fan sucks so much air that I can actually put my hand on the glass and it's not too hot or uncomfortable. So going by your statement I don't need any clearance between the plant tops and the light. Is that right? That seems like a far cry from my book's 30" recommended clearance.
Call your hydro store and ask them. Seriously they have put enough doubt in your head on here that you need to talk to a "pro"
 

cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
think you guys are a little off here. In order to know you are providing the right thermal environment for you plants through ventilation, oscillating fans etc. you need to understand the physical nature of the 'heat' in grow spaces, how it should be measured, and the mistakes that can easily be made.

Essentially there are two aspects to the thermal environment that you need to be aware of:

1. The AIR temperature
2. The RADIANT temperature

Although obviously related, these are 2 distinctly separate phenomena and your plants have different tolerances for each.

1. Air temperature
Your standard mercury/alcohol-bulb or digital thermometer is designed to measure the temperature of the air (But not radiant heat). This is what is being referred to in the usual growers 'rules of thumb'

Most thermometers are only designed to measure air temperature – growers often mistakenly place their thermometer in direct light; radiant energy will warm your thermometer and give a higher than actual reading.

*Assuming your air is well mixed up by oscillating fans, it doesn’t really matter where you locate your thermometer. The best spot is probably about half the way up a wall, with a piece of cardboard over it (To shade it from radiant heat), exposed to the mixed air in the grow room.

2. Radiant temperature
Radiant temperature is the result of heat transfer bewteen objects at different temperatures without whats inbetween i.e. the air, being effected. In our case the plants are naturally at a lower temperature that the light and reflector so heat is transferred to the plants foliage from the light/refecltor through radiation. This causes the leaves to heat up. The plants can withstand higher radiant temperatures than they can air temperatures but if this is too high the plants can 'burn'.

'The hand test': Place your hand in a comfortable position for some time at the tips of your plants should be. If your hand feels “warm”, then the lights are too close, the radiant energy is too intense, and light burn may result. Do this test and raise your HID lights/reflectors periodically to keep light burn to a minimum.

Finally, monitor the conditions in your grow regularly as things are changing all the time, and you will soon get to understand the thermal dynamics of your particular grow space so you can get the most from it.

Note:
[Cannabis loves high light levels/high radiant energy levels, but exceeding their tolerance for light can result in light burn and chlorophyll leaching out of the leaves. 600's & 1000’s put out a lot of light, and light burn can easily damage plants.

Light burn damage: initially the leaves look pale green (the edges may turn upwards, mimicking a Mg deficiency), then they turn yellow and finally yellow/brown as the leaves scorch.

Often you can see a circular pattern of intense light where the reflector has focused the light onto the plants. If plants outside of this intense light zone look greener and healthier, consider raising your lights.]
 

calicat

Well-Known Member
If you are constantly rotating your plants then by all means have it that close to your plants. If you dont rotate your plants then you will get a tee pee effect. I normally dont go too close to the canopy maybe a foot at most and I run 600 W with radiant cooled reflective hoods. Now if you had a light mover then you could go close like the other gentleman are suggesting and your light footprint remains large and the lumens are increased.
 

murtymaker

Well-Known Member
So I have a light mover...How far should my aircooled 1000w be? Hand test or less than a foot? Or both duh
 

BeverlyRollins69

Well-Known Member
^^^Thanks, as a scientist that helps me to understand lighting much better.

^^At this time I'm growing in a closet with one light, no room for more lights and/or light movers
 

cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
As I was changing my nutes (every Sunday) I was think of a better way to describe what we are talking about.
Here goes

As mentioned before there are two types of heat.

When your bulb ignites (important word) passing electricity through a tube of sodium under high pressure. The reaction that occurs produces heat. Your vortex fan is taking this heat away and nothing more.

Radiant heat is always present when there is light. The only way to get rid of it is to produce less light (not our goal) or move further away.
A perfect example of this is using a magnifying glass to burn stuff.
Or tinting you windows in your car.

Plants require, for robust growth, the following lumens.

250 lumens for seedlings
2500 lumens for veg growth
and 25000 lumens for flowering

So that being said. Why would people choose to have 1000w 150,000 lumen HPS bulbs? It is to cover more area.

Lumen output is measured at 1 foot. Light diminishes quite rapidly though.

A 400w hps produces 55000 lumens at 1 foot but if your garden is 6'x6' then in order to cover that area you would need to raise the light to 18". So now to cover more area your light has diminished more than half. At this point you would up bulbs to a higher wattage.

A 1000w super hps at 24" will produce the same light as a 400w at 12". BUT it will cover a greater area. 1000w at 10 inches is very wasteful and bad for the plant. The plant can't use 150,000 lumens. The sun hits the earth at the equator at 10,000 lumens sqft
 
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BeverlyRollins69

Well-Known Member
Well there's only a few tops poking through the canopy and those are 15" from the top, the majority of the canopy is at least 20" from the top. Sound ok? The plants are showing no signs of overheating.
 

murtymaker

Well-Known Member
Your posts are very informative cloudflyer, thank you for your time on this thread. So in essence, even though I have a light mover and a 1000w air-cooled reflector, I should still have my 1000w 24" away from the tops??? My GROW system is 4x4 so I have a light mover just to even out the light distribution. I always thought the more lumens the better cuz the plant can get store more energy that way, but your saying no. So IYO I should have the 1000w 24" away from tops while flowering? Thanks again.
 

cloudflyer

Well-Known Member
Your posts are very informative cloudflyer, thank you for your time on this thread. So in essence, even though I have a light mover and a 1000w air-cooled reflector, I should still have my 1000w 24" away from the tops??? My GROW system is 4x4 so I have a light mover just to even out the light distribution. I always thought the more lumens the better cuz the plant can get store more energy that way, but your saying no. So IYO I should have the 1000w 24" away from tops while flowering? Thanks again.
There ya go. Truth is in a 4x4 space a 1000 is a lot of light. At 24" you are giving plenty of light and in such a small area you need not move it at all. You will find that your plants will grow better. They will not have to devote resources otherwise used for flower production to cool off.

In my 4x4 to solve a lot of this problem I have purchased a Hydrofarm Growzilla dual bulb reflector. I could throw 2 1000's in it and top 300,000 lumens but I don't need it. Instead I have a 400w mh and a 600w hps.
During veg growth I use the 400mh until about half way. Then I add the 600hps and leave it like that until the last 3 weeks of flowering. Then i take out the 400mh and replace it with 400hps +600hps. I use a fraction of the power and have better result with the added bonus of dual spectrum.
 
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