Reasons to Vote yes on Prop 19

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I know in Golden Gate Park, it's not uncommon for people to gather on the weekend and have a smoke session. Same for Venice Beach in Los Angeles and Ocean Avenue in Santa Monica. Part (iv) is pretty self-explanatory on why it's not such a good idea.
You do realize it's illegal to smoke in public now right? That's not a new law. It doesn't make smoking in public any more illegal than it is now.

To ask people not to smoke in public spaces or around kids isn't that unreasonable.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
You do realize it's illegal to smoke in public now right? That's not a new law. It doesn't make smoking in public any more illegal than it is now.

To ask people not to smoke in public spaces or around kids isn't that unreasonable.
Show me where in California law it says it's illegal to consume in public? You can be cited by the cops and given a misdemeanor (once again, the only one without jail time and only $100 fine) for possessing cannabis, but that's it. It's about as reasonable as expecting people not to drink in public places and no one seems to have a problem with beer and wine all over the place. I think you have the wrong perception of cannabis. You seem to join in with the Kool-Aid drinkers that it's an illicit drug that we have to protect society from. I'm not afraid of a plant that is of great benefit to life, so I have no issue with people and kids in general being around. I don't see a need to restrict people just because you're a canna-shy. You keep moaning and complaining about "80 years of Prohibition" while supporting the same short-sighted and misinformed views of Prohibition. Ending this Prohibition isn't just about making cannabis taxed and regulated, but also about ending unfounded discrimination and the lies that create it.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
You do realize it's illegal to smoke in public now right? That's not a new law. It doesn't make smoking in public any more illegal than it is now.

To ask people not to smoke in public spaces or around kids isn't that unreasonable.
i thought you wanted it to be like booze. i can drink beer at the park, with my kid next to me. ;)
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Show me where in California law it says it's illegal to consume in public? You can be cited by the cops and given a misdemeanor (once again, the only one without jail time and only $100 fine) for possessing cannabis, but that's it.
Well if you get a misdemeanor for doing it then it's illegal. I don't need to show you anything. And by the way, where does it say you'll get a felony for consuming it in public? No where. Show me evidence that people will be given a stiffer penalty than they are now.

This is your proof that prop 19 is going to send more people to jail? Pretty thin. At best, you're nitpicking. It kind of sounds like you decided you hated it, then tried to find the reason why.

It's about as reasonable as expecting people not to drink in public places and no one seems to have a problem with beer and wine all over the place.
To be fair, cannabis is more comparable to cigarettes than alcohol in this respect. When you drink a beer, the guy next to you doesn't inhale beer smoke as a result. Of course I believe ultimately much more problems are created by drinking alcohol in public than smoking, but whatever.

I think you have the wrong perception of cannabis. You seem to join in with the Kool-Aid drinkers that it's an illicit drug that we have to protect society from.
lol. Wtf? What have I ever said to make you believe this? I work full time in the medical cannabis industry and have so for a long time.

Your assumptions about me just aren't true.

That's kind of the equivalent of me saying that since you're against prop 19 then you must be a gang banger profiting off of the illegal sales of marijuana. It's ridiculous.

In your previous posts you were for the most part posting reasonable, rational concerns. I didn't agree with them all, but it was at least they were honest concerns.

Then you have to get into this kind of BS rhetoric that doesn't even make sense.

Yeah, that's right. I think cannabis is a horrible illicit plague on humanity that we should protect people from by making it legal? wtf? really dude?

I'm not afraid of a plant that is of great benefit to life, so I have no issue with people and kids in general being around.
That's nice. Unfortunately other people in California have different opinions about cannabis. It's our job to incrementally introduce it to them so they learn the truth about this. The way to do this isn't to start sparking up in front of their kids. It's to slowly show them it isn't that harmful step by step. Step one was 215. Step two is this.

Thank god you weren't around during the civil rights movement. You'd probably have protested against it because the first civil rights laws didn't go far enough. How'd incremental change work out there?


You keep moaning and complaining about "80 years of Prohibition"
And you're the one who wants another 80 years of it.


Ending this Prohibition isn't just about making cannabis taxed and regulated, but also about ending unfounded discrimination and the lies that create it.
I'm fine with that. But Rome wasn't built in a day. Just because this law doesn't go far enough that doesn't mean we should reject our best chance to start to end it.

You keep complaining that prop19 won't end prohibition. You know what? You're right. It doesn't. But it's a step towards that goal. You're willing to throw that opportunity away because there are a few details you don't like. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
I never said that. I said their were comparisons. And by the way, in many parks, it is illegal.
in many parks it's legal, as pot WON'T be. you can't use a positive comparison of booze when it suits you, then ignore the next one when it's against you. you are hand picking your arguments and changing things around to suit your point. then you accuse others of doing the same. you have done nothing to make any valid points in this thread. you are trolling for an argument. no one is changing their minds. :sleep:
 

potroast

Uses the Rollitup profile
in many parkas it's legal, as pot WON'T be. you can't use a positive comparison of booze when it suits you, then ignore the next one when it's against you. you are hand picking your arguments and changing things around to suit your point. then you accuse others of doing the same. you have done nothing to make any valid points in this thread. you are trolling for an argument. no one is changing their minds. :sleep:
Pardon me, fdd, but it is YOU who are trolling. This thread is titled "Reasons to vote YES," so why are you posting here?
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Pardon me, fdd, but it is YOU who are trolling. This thread is titled "Reasons to vote YES," so why are you posting here?
For much the same reason that proponents of Prop 19 keep posting and "trolling" in Anti-Prop 19 threads. Funny how it's alright for proponents to shit up anti-prop 19 threads with their "arguments", but you only pop up to say anything when opposition shows up in an Pro-Prop 19 thread. Hypocrisy much anyone?
 

potroast

Uses the Rollitup profile
For much the same reason that proponents of Prop 19 keep posting and "trolling" in Anti-Prop 19 threads. Funny how it's alright for proponents to shit up anti-prop 19 threads with their "arguments", but you only pop up to say anything when opposition shows up in an Pro-Prop 19 thread. Hypocrisy much anyone?

Yes, anyone can post in any open thread. But if you go into it and disagree, and then accuse others of trolling, well...

Like most salient points, you've missed another one.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Why would I care? Because I've been fighting for this since before you were born. :roll:

We'll pass this in spite of the naysayers.
dude, you really aren't that much older than me. and if this is as far as you've gotten after 40+ years, you're doing it wrong. ;)
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Why would I care? Because I've been fighting for this since before you were born. :roll:

We'll pass this in spite of the naysayers.
Nice of you to change idiots to naysayers. And I have no doubt you could very have been fighting for "this" for quite some time. It's not like commercializing cannabis and squeezing out the locals is a new strategy.

Yes, anyone can post in any open thread. But if you go into it and disagree, and then accuse others of trolling, well...

Like most salient points, you've missed another one.
No, I get it. You have your reasons for this bill. I've been working and fighting for decriminalization for almost 20 years myself. I know for a fact that things are far better now than they've ever been before because of our decriminalization efforts. Prop 215 and Prop 36 brought progress to the decriminalization movement through protection for those who use cannabis to enrich their lives and through a massive reduction in penalties for non-violent possession charges, which also includes drop of the charges after completion of a court program. Only one thing is strictly prohibited according to current California statutes and legal precedents, sales or "intent to sell". Even amounts over one ounce and excessive plants numbers are eligible for a personal consumption defense under current California law as there is no actual definition of "personal consumption" currently. Prop 19 sets those standards and give local law enforcement a new set of standards by which to determine "intent to sell". Yes, local governments have the option to set more generous limits. They've always had that option. This proposition does nothing to really alter the blockades to real decriminalization which all lie in existing Health and Safety and California Penal Codes. The proposition does nothing to reduce the ability of law enforcement and local government to prove "intent to sell", but gives them new concrete numbers to live and arrest by. It adds new definitions and laws which translate into more restrictions and more arrests. The past 20 years speak to that. That's just history. Someone who's been fighting for legalization for as long as you claim to have been should know better.
 

deprave

New Member
Dan Kone - The same bizarro world that is decrim - which does'nt make a whole lot of sense , as you put it, "bizarro".

Ok its illegal but its not.....what is the sense? where does it come from?
The only sound answer is legalization and that is what prop 19 is.



As for the new restrictions that will "put more people in jail" (laughable):
It does not matter if there will be new rules and restrictions. As stated by the opressors, the new rules surrounding minors, public use, and definition of personal use, these concerns are made invalid by the fact that they are medical users, however, lets come back to reality for a second here and examine the true impact this will have on you the every day joe or sally; marijuana use - possession - sales whatever will be more widely accepted and not on the radar of the popo as much and the result will be that everyone who uses, sells, or grows cannabis will be safer in the end and the medical people will the the safest of all...."oh you have a card? ok you can go" ..."oh you don't have a card lets investigate this further..."

The fact of the matter is, we don't live in a courtroom. If marijuana is legal far less people would get in trouble for marijuana alone and that is the reality of the situation. I just dont see people getting busted with 1 gram over the limit as their only "crime" being some sort of epidemic like you gentlemen make it out to be and furthermore I don't see your average joes getting raided like they do now, likely nobody would ever get raided for marijuana alone ever again unless they had some sort of huge comerical operation. Due in part to the fact that the amount of mj you could store in your home would be unlimited.

Think about that for a second - No More raids on peoples homes......Think about all the dogs this will save - think about the flashbangs that will be saved to be used for more appropriate operations. Think about the furniture and the electronics - your 54" plasma safe from the sheriffs office and will always remain in your hands - your door will get to keep on keepin on, being that good ole trusty door you have known and loved for so many years.


And finally think about your mustang...thank the lord that it won't end up in some douschebags hands like this:


View attachment 1073090
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Misinformation. Nothing in prop 19 squeezes out locals. And on what bizarro world have legal cannabis that you can't sell in a commercial store?
Only as much misinformation as your claim that the proposition favors the existing market of small and medium growers by granting local government broad authority to determine regulation, taxing and fee schedules. That worked out real well for all the small and medium entities in the alcohol industry following Prohibition. But, if your last sentence is any sort of metric, it would appear that you're the typical product of the American public educational system and therefore not as versed in the in-depth history, follow-up and impact of the end of Prohibition. So if it's still confusing to you how this proposition does to cannabis what we've already done to our agricultural, alcohol and tobacco industries, I would strongly suggest you do some research. Even Wikipedia can't deny the massive negative repercussions that followed Prohibition.

Yeah, he's evil. Not arguing that. But hey, just because he's evil doesn't mean he can't do anything good. Hitler made the trains run on time!
I'm glad the attempted genocide of the Jewish people and the near-subjugation of the European continent resulting in the deaths of millions was worth trains running on time in your opinion. You've already shown that you're ready to let the 18-20 crowd go to jail so you can feel safer about your ounce of weed. Who else are you ready to cut loose? I'm fighting for all of us, even the ones that are ready to cut and run.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Only as much misinformation as your claim that the proposition favors the existing market of small and medium growers by granting local government broad authority to determine regulation, taxing and fee schedules.
I never claimed anything like that. I claim it gives equal footing to everyone. I challenge you to find anything in the text of prop 19 that cuts out small businesses.

I'm glad the attempted genocide of the Jewish people and the near-subjugation of the European continent resulting in the deaths of millions was worth trains running on time in your opinion.
Oh stfu, I was clearly joking.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
I never claimed anything like that. I claim it gives equal footing to everyone. I challenge you to find anything in the text of prop 19 that cuts out small businesses.
Just as soon as you find the part of California law that specifically outlaws consumption. You didn't feel the need to indulge me, so I feel no need to point out the obvious to you. But, that's alright... you can continue to pick and choose what to respond to and ignore the context that surrounds the items you choose to challenge. It's rather like watching fledgling forensics students who continue to fall back on circular logic to try and make a point. Or a bad episode of Glenn Beck.

Oh stfu, I was clearly joking.
OH! Well, if it's a joke, that makes it soooo much better. :roll:
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Just as soon as you find the part of California law that specifically outlaws consumption. You didn't feel the need to indulge me, so I feel no need to point out the obvious to you.
You asked me to prove it was illegal, then admitted it was illegal in the very next sentence! Why would I prove something to you after you just admitted you already knew it was illegal?

On the other hand there is absolutely nothing in prop 19 that prohibits you, me, or anyone else from opening a cannabis related business and competing in the free market. To say otherwise is just a pack of lies. You know it, I know it.

I've prop 19 is so bad, you should be able to prove that by sticking to the truth. Yet your side continues to spread misinformation to make your point. You guys are sounding worse that the big businesses you claim to be raging against.
 
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