Real world Hi-Pressure Aeroponics
- Thread starter deeweromekoms
- Start date
Himself2006
Active Member
I've just recently discovered the HP Aero systems and hopefully with your setup you can answer a couple questions as that's what this forum is for!
1. Based on your picture you have your pump pulling from your nute res then it feeds down the pipe and hits the solenoid valve (closed) so it backtracks to the T and into the holding tank correct? How does your pump know when to turn on/off based on your tank being full?
2. You stated that running the pump full-time wears it down but isn't it the opposite? Turning it on/off lots of times does more wear and tear? Only reason I mention this is to lead to my next question - why not just have the pump running into the solenoid valve which remains closed and at the T instead of going into a tank just have it cycling back into your res which allows for aeration there - then when the valve 'opens' the water goes towards the misters (of course you'd need to solenoid valves for this - 1 that is open and closes at the timer and the other that is closed and opens) I read fatman's post and that's what spurred my interest - I think he mentioned running it for like 3 seconds on and a couple minutes off with that setup and having it drain to waste
3. How far is the water travelling from your pump/tank to the farthest mister and is it still holding adequate pressure?
4. Isn't 40-50 PSI considered medium aero not HP which is 80-100 PSI?
I don't mean to criticize at all if that's how this is coming across - I'm just trying to learn and the best way for me is to figure out misconceptions!
I'm curious about jrinlv question about how large your plants grow (and their root systems) at harvest - I heard HP grows smaller plants and higher yields
1. Based on your picture you have your pump pulling from your nute res then it feeds down the pipe and hits the solenoid valve (closed) so it backtracks to the T and into the holding tank correct? How does your pump know when to turn on/off based on your tank being full?
2. You stated that running the pump full-time wears it down but isn't it the opposite? Turning it on/off lots of times does more wear and tear? Only reason I mention this is to lead to my next question - why not just have the pump running into the solenoid valve which remains closed and at the T instead of going into a tank just have it cycling back into your res which allows for aeration there - then when the valve 'opens' the water goes towards the misters (of course you'd need to solenoid valves for this - 1 that is open and closes at the timer and the other that is closed and opens) I read fatman's post and that's what spurred my interest - I think he mentioned running it for like 3 seconds on and a couple minutes off with that setup and having it drain to waste
3. How far is the water travelling from your pump/tank to the farthest mister and is it still holding adequate pressure?
4. Isn't 40-50 PSI considered medium aero not HP which is 80-100 PSI?
I don't mean to criticize at all if that's how this is coming across - I'm just trying to learn and the best way for me is to figure out misconceptions!
I'm curious about jrinlv question about how large your plants grow (and their root systems) at harvest - I heard HP grows smaller plants and higher yields
squarepush3r
Well-Known Member
what kind of pump specifically can you recommend for aero?
UrbanAerO
Active Member
I run a 1/2 hp sump pump also and wonder what kind of PSI it would make. I use about 80 -360* sprayers and 1-1/4"PVC for each pump. I would like to say the larger pump really changed my root hairs and root growth. Super fine hairs that are spread out, I wasnt getting this kind of root growth with 4- 550gph pumps I have some of the latest pics here. https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/341141-1-1000w-liquid-cooled-light-3.html
Alaric
Well-Known Member
High Urban?
I run 6 to 8 ten foot pvc tubes (6") dia.----forming a "tunnel" canopy around two 1Ks in veg and 4x1K in flowering, air cooled and on movers.
Each tube has a 1/2" spray line with 9 x 90 degree microjet sprayers------Veg room has one 3/4 hp pump and the flower room has tandem 3/4s. Around 20psi of head pressure at each sprayline produces a good mist to the roots.
Been reading some of your posts (not on line much)----and saw pics of your show---nice.
A~~
I run 6 to 8 ten foot pvc tubes (6") dia.----forming a "tunnel" canopy around two 1Ks in veg and 4x1K in flowering, air cooled and on movers.
Each tube has a 1/2" spray line with 9 x 90 degree microjet sprayers------Veg room has one 3/4 hp pump and the flower room has tandem 3/4s. Around 20psi of head pressure at each sprayline produces a good mist to the roots.
Been reading some of your posts (not on line much)----and saw pics of your show---nice.
A~~
i <3 herb
Member
hey all this is my first post. i've been lurkin for a month or so trying to absorb as much info before i purchase any equipment to start my first medical grow.
it's been hard to find good info on aeroponic diy systems, so i really appreciate this thread. hope yall don't mind me hanging out in the corner and takin notes!
one question i did have right off the bat was discussed briefly already, but i was hoping some experienced aero growers could chime in in a little more depth. in a horizontal tube aero system (i love the vertical design but my growing space does not permit it) what happens when the root mass is no longer suspended? I assume it will pile up on the bottom of the tube. is this a problem? (i believe this exact question was asked but i do not think it was answered).
thanks in advance!
it's been hard to find good info on aeroponic diy systems, so i really appreciate this thread. hope yall don't mind me hanging out in the corner and takin notes!
one question i did have right off the bat was discussed briefly already, but i was hoping some experienced aero growers could chime in in a little more depth. in a horizontal tube aero system (i love the vertical design but my growing space does not permit it) what happens when the root mass is no longer suspended? I assume it will pile up on the bottom of the tube. is this a problem? (i believe this exact question was asked but i do not think it was answered).
thanks in advance!
deeweromekoms
Active Member
OK KIDS:
SHURFLO high pressure on demand pump. Has pressure switch, keeps accu tank at 45-50 psi.
High pressure, meaning you must run it at 40 psi or larger. Drawing directly from nute res.
Return (run-off) gets pumped back w. small aquarium pups, one for each rack.
Mist spray nozzles fromCLOUDTOPS
www.cloudtops.com/
Ask for/talk to Steve. These guys are good to go.
Canna Nutes with Bloombastic, at 1/2 strength, 15 min off/20 sec on. They are bud monsters.
When roots get too big, you trim.
The beauty is in the suspension - no longer sitting in puddles of wet.
Make sure roots/nute temp stays cool enough or you'll end up with root rot - guaranteed
SHURFLO high pressure on demand pump. Has pressure switch, keeps accu tank at 45-50 psi.
High pressure, meaning you must run it at 40 psi or larger. Drawing directly from nute res.
Return (run-off) gets pumped back w. small aquarium pups, one for each rack.
Mist spray nozzles fromCLOUDTOPS
www.cloudtops.com/
Ask for/talk to Steve. These guys are good to go.
Canna Nutes with Bloombastic, at 1/2 strength, 15 min off/20 sec on. They are bud monsters.
When roots get too big, you trim.
The beauty is in the suspension - no longer sitting in puddles of wet.
Make sure roots/nute temp stays cool enough or you'll end up with root rot - guaranteed
What temperature do you consider cool enough? I really can't see how with my roots suspended in air and getting misted with high DO water that rot could develop.
BTW, I run from 100-125PSI, 30 misters, two per column.
EDIT: BTW, how do you keep the water being delivered to the plants cool when using an accumulator? The water stays in the "piping" (accumulator/tubes) for an hour or two before being delivered to the plants......I have two chillers I'm not using, but I just can't fathom the logic behind chilling water that will warm up before it reaches my plants anyways.
BTW, I run from 100-125PSI, 30 misters, two per column.
EDIT: BTW, how do you keep the water being delivered to the plants cool when using an accumulator? The water stays in the "piping" (accumulator/tubes) for an hour or two before being delivered to the plants......I have two chillers I'm not using, but I just can't fathom the logic behind chilling water that will warm up before it reaches my plants anyways.
Its all theory, Bob
He doesn`t even need the accumulator for this, he can simply run the 40-45psi pump for 20 seconds every 15minutes
Yeah, it just doesn't make sense to me...............understanding how root rot takes hold and effects plants, I can't fathom why a chiller would be necessary in my setup.Its all theory, Bob
He doesn`t even need the accumulator for this, he can simply run the 40-45psi pump for 20 seconds every 15minutes
Thinking of adding another 30 or 60 misters (60 would get me to one per plant), but I wanna find misters that don't crack (I think that's the term) until like 80 or 90PSI so there's not "run off" in-between cycles - any ideas of where to find those?
Another question - why did you remove the "dirt" from your plants before transplanting into your system? Had an EZ Clone 120 problem so went and got peat pellets; rooted in them, and threw the clones in my system with the peat pellets.............have a filter on my return to the rez, and then have a 1 micron filter before my pump, so I'm not too worried about that media getting into my misting system.
Already seeing some new fishbone roots after only one day in there.
I only remove the dirt if i transplant from dirt to aero which rarely happens. Some nozzles have optional anti drain valves but not all of them and they don`t fit other nozzle brands.Netafim have a few choices upto 58psi open/26psi close(push fitting), fogco iirc have two types 70psi open/45psi close and 145psi open/70psi close (10/24 thread). The only way to get open/close at the same pressure is to use a solenoid at each nozzle, but that gets expensive with 60 nozzles
deeweromekoms
Active Member
Yep. Theory. When I look around all I see is theory.Its all theory, Bob
He doesn`t even need the accumulator for this, he can simply run the 40-45psi pump for 20 seconds every 15minutes
I did not invent nor reinvent the wheel. I simply do what experienced plummers tell me to do. Hence accumulator tank. To each their own. This is what works for me. I'm happy with my set-up, you must be with yours.
Just keep in mind how long it will take for that pump to build up that pressure through out the entire line. ( and It's a long line....). With an accu-tank it's instantaneous.
Please correct me if I am mistaken - in an earlier post on Bobsmiths' nute delivery thread you more or less stated the same thing yourself?
Re: temp, it was just a short observation,let's say it applies to those of us who deal with growing indoor in a tropical climate. Temperature management is a major issue. Others probably need not worry.
edit:
Bobsmith just turned me on to this: Shurflo: 150 psi on demend pump [8030-863-239] Three cheers for Bob!!
100-150 psi pump. Definitely the way to go.
Once installed and running will post update. Stay tuned......
In an lp aero or DWC system, reservoir temps are VERY important because roots spend so much of their time submerged/covered in water, so dissolved oxygen (inversely related to water temp, although not totally linear relationship) in the water becomes much, much more important.
As roots in HP aero spend >98% of their time exposed to air, I can't see how DO could be an issue at all............I'll be using H2O2 in my reservoir as always, and have been contemplating throwing some bioballs in the base of my system to allow bennies to flourish as well.
Atomizer, thinking of going to 90 nozzles, but since I switch up systems every few runs anyways, doesn't make sense to buy $1500 worth of solenoids that I won't need in a half a year..............yowsers............I like wasting money more than most, but that's a little silly even for me
Deewe, Atomizer is saying that with a misting cycle that long, retaining pressure in the water lines becomes less of an issue because you're already "over-wetting" the roots to the point where delivering 30-80 microns is not as essential as it would be in a super short cycle setup where plants are only fed as needed.*
*This is just how I interpret what he's saying, and although I haven't yet taken any plants full term in HP aero, from what I've read he's correct. As I've stated elsewhere, I'm going to HP aero delivery for an efficiency gain, not necessarily to get fuzzy white roots (which may or may not even be possible in my current setup) - however, when I grow HP aero trees I promise you my roots will be the whitest on the block
deeweromekoms
Active Member
Your points are duly noted and you are correct sir.
As I am not running (yet) at pressure high enough to create that elusive mist, I probably am overwatering in one way or another.
Going to take my system to the next level (100+psi) literally, will be an interesting and challenging experience. Hope the lessons learned so far will serve me.
FWIW - for a brief period I allowed the ambient temp in the room (including the nute res) go to a higher temp, obviously too high, since I ended up with an entire set of bad roots, which drove the concept of temp management home pretty well.
So yep - regardless where you live, watch them temps.
For those of you wanting to learn more, please read all the posts in this thread, there's some excellent info and links.
This one from Bob:
http://www.steam-brite.com/store/shu...ls-p-4296.html
Used in conjunction with a Grainger pressure switch set to 100-125PSI.
As I am not running (yet) at pressure high enough to create that elusive mist, I probably am overwatering in one way or another.
Going to take my system to the next level (100+psi) literally, will be an interesting and challenging experience. Hope the lessons learned so far will serve me.
FWIW - for a brief period I allowed the ambient temp in the room (including the nute res) go to a higher temp, obviously too high, since I ended up with an entire set of bad roots, which drove the concept of temp management home pretty well.
So yep - regardless where you live, watch them temps.
For those of you wanting to learn more, please read all the posts in this thread, there's some excellent info and links.
This one from Bob:
http://www.steam-brite.com/store/shu...ls-p-4296.html
Used in conjunction with a Grainger pressure switch set to 100-125PSI.
Hi Dee,
I wasn`t getting at you, just the method you recommended 40-45psi isn`t enough pressure for 30-80micron droplets and 20 seconds misting is too much.
The criteria for hp aero is simple but they work against each other. Correct droplet size, complete mist coverage, tight control to prevent oversaturation and plenty of space.
I wasn`t getting at you, just the method you recommended
40-45psi isn`t enough pressure for 30-80micron droplets and 20 seconds misting is too much. The criteria for hp aero is simple but they work against each other. Correct droplet size, complete mist coverage, tight control to prevent oversaturation and plenty of space.
Deewe, what temps did you notice as being "too high", and was that while vegging or flowering? If vegging (especially 24/7), I can see how temps too high in the rootzone would be problematic.
Also Deewe, are you running an accumulator setup? If so, it's doubtful that your tank can handle pressures over 100PSI..........make sure to check that - I had to search far and wide for an accumulator that could handle the pressures I wanted to run.
Also Deewe, are you running an accumulator setup? If so, it's doubtful that your tank can handle pressures over 100PSI..........make sure to check that - I had to search far and wide for an accumulator that could handle the pressures I wanted to run.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I would PM you but could not. One needs to be aware that plant roots grow as long as plant tops. Adjust your pod height (and/or genetics) accordingly. Roots gathering on the bottom or together in an open root pod (hammocking) are no longer True aero. Also, aero mist needs plenty of room to move and float, especially during flower, as new root mass develops near the top whose function is to feed the bud sites. This can be compensated by adding more mist heads, but then one runs the risk of too much moisture per feed interval.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
CRACKING: I tried to beat this with a various cutoff valves from Smart Valve, but none of the smaller ones withstood the pressure of my Aquatec 8800. To compensate, I place my misters low and aim them up, hoping the first large drops will fall before hitting the roots. This is one reason why you need much larger dia cylinders, which probably aren't practical in your current rig. Instead I use Rubbermaid totes. Max 2 plants (< 20") per 18G, but am looking for something deeper (roughly 3 ft) as the tap roots can hit bottom before harvest. Now growing < 30" AFs in hopes of solving that problem.
FYI- I only grow 2-5 plants at a time, so I do not use an accumulator, though it would still work. Feed Cycle: I use 3 seconds on/ ~3 minutes pause. I am monitoring both, but it seems the pause is what needs to be dialed in- due to not having an accumulator. My 8800 is now on it's 4th grow, but I bought a backup just in case. hth
deeweromekoms
Active Member
No worries.Hi Dee,
I wasn`t getting at you, just the method you recommended
The criteria for hp aero is simple but they work against each other. Correct droplet size, complete mist coverage, tight control to prevent oversaturation and plenty of space.
And you're right. This is why I'm steering towards a 100 psi set-up.
Basically what I was trying to get across with this thread is that it is not nearly as complicated or impossible as some would like you to believe, but if one wants to run hi pressure, it can not be done with aquarium pumps.
It dies take a more sophisticated set up, in which the needs drive the design. And since we're all kinda on our own, there will be many different designs.
And this is why we communicate, we're all trying to improve and lear from each other.