Rand paul wins

ink the world

Well-Known Member
The story comes right out and calls Rand a racist when he remarks more than a few times that he is not a racist and that he would have marched with Martin Luther King.
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Cool, it's too bad they wouldnt be able to sit together at some restaraunts back then and in the future if Paul had his way
No it does not embarrasse the tea party at all....

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I dont like his stance, I wont call him a racist either. I just think that he would be opening the door for segregation and widening the racial divide that already exists. I agree it doesn't embarrass the Tea Party, I do think it worries the Republicans a whole lot though.
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry righties, this "privacy" issue will assure a democratic win in Ky. Say, how is that lack of government controls thingy working out for you righties as concerning BP? Really, ???
Some of the things you post I agree with, but I wonder why someone that seems to try and convey being a free spirit, would be drawn into the left/right paradigm so easily. You think the guy in your picture would being cheering for corrupt political parties or common sense?

I guess someones gotta wave the pom poms and cheer lead though.
 

medicineman

New Member
Some of the things you post I agree with, but I wonder why someone that seems to try and convey being a free spirit, would be drawn into the left/right paradigm so easily. You think the guy in your picture would being cheering for corrupt political parties or common sense?

I guess someones gotta wave the pom poms and cheer lead though.
It's simply a matter of percieved lessor of the two evils. Any thinking person should be able to see this. If you don't vote, you have no voice. Granted, sometimes the choice is between a douche and a terd sandwich, but at least, when you weigh all the parameters, one can clearly see where one candidate trends more towards their thinking. Do we always get what we want? Hell no. Are most politicians corrupt? Hell yeah. So I take it you sit on the sidelines bitching and waiting for the perfect candidate. Well guess what, they don't exist. Politicians are for the most part, in it for their own selfish reasons. Case in point, Arlen Spector..,He switched parties, why? Because he wanted to get re-elected, and he even admitted it. So, what's in it for carreer politicians, millionaires all? Power, that's what, they are drunk with power and giving it up is like losing part of their bodies. Please don't confuse me with all the boneheads that follow party lines, like your tea-party friends. I am and always was a worker, a union worker. I tried office work, not for me. I always needed to be outside, must be the Indian in me. I vote for whomever I believe will do the most good for workers, not corporations. The republicans I've known, "In General" were assholes that couldn't care less for hard working blue collar people, they were for the most part, a selfish greedy breed.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
I'm sorry righties, this "privacy" issue will assure a democratic win in Ky. Say, how is that lack of government controls thingy working out for you righties as concerning BP? Really, ???
I don't think this will effect the election as much as you would hope. In fact I think it will help Rand because he stood his ground and refuses to lie. We are talking Ky after all and the midset there is different than most of the rest of the nation. As far as the BP comment. It appears everything is right and left with you. Such a mindset blinds and binds ones thought patterns.
 

medicineman

New Member
I don't think this will effect the election as much as you would hope. In fact I think it will help Rand because he stood his ground and refuses to lie. We are talking Ky after all and the midset there is different than most of the rest of the nation. As far as the BP comment. It appears everything is right and left with you. Such a mindset blinds and binds ones thought patterns.
You are one crazy MF. Who set all the rules for the oil companies, Uhhhh, try Dick Cheney and his secret energy meetings. So secret that even today we, the American citizenry, cannot find out what went on, although it seems pretty clear that the suspension of rules pertaining to oil drilling and exploration were definently put on hold. Just because I trend towards the left does not mean I'm a ditto head like the right seems to be. I'm for people, while it appears the right is more for property, Although, I've seen one good law the Texans have, If you catch a crook breaking into your property in Texas, you can shoot to kill. I wonder if that has cut down on car theft and burglaries? If it weren't for all the California transplants here in Nv., I'm pretty sure we'd have a similar law, Criminal cleansing. Would save the state a lot of cash, no trials, no incarceration etc. Having a carry permit, basically takes me out of the muddle headed left wing do gooders. I'm a practical lefty. If it helps the working class, Blue collar, I'm for it. All the other tree hugging nonsense, I abide for the future of mankind, My grandkids and their grandkids, even your grandkids. If we, The human race, don't find a way to work out our differences soon, I'm pretty sure some Idiot will push the magic button, It wont matter then who's left or right.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
You are one crazy MF. Who set all the rules for the oil companies, Uhhhh, try Dick Cheney and his secret energy meetings. So secret that even today we, the American citizenry, cannot find out what went on, although it seems pretty clear that the suspension of rules pertaining to oil drilling and exploration were definently put on hold. Just because I trend towards the left does not mean I'm a ditto head like the right seems to be. I'm for people, while it appears the right is more for property, Although, I've seen one good law the Texans have, If you catch a crook breaking into your property in Texas, you can shoot to kill. I wonder if that has cut down on car theft and burglaries? If it weren't for all the California transplants here in Nv., I'm pretty sure we'd have a similar law, Criminal cleansing. Would save the state a lot of cash, no trials, no incarceration etc. Having a carry permit, basically takes me out of the muddle headed left wing do gooders. I'm a practical lefty. If it helps the working class, Blue collar, I'm for it. All the other tree hugging nonsense, I abide for the future of mankind, My grandkids and their grandkids, even your grandkids. If we, The human race, don't find a way to work out our differences soon, I'm pretty sure some Idiot will push the magic button, It wont matter then who's left or right.
You are right about 2 things.
#1 I am one crazy Mother Fucker. Always have been.
#2 the Texas law about shooting a Thieving POS is damn fine..
One of the reasons I moved to Oregon from California was because of Cali's BS laws that govern protection of self and property.
 

medicineman

New Member
You are right about 2 things.
#1 I am one crazy Mother Fucker. Always have been.
#2 the Texas law about shooting a Thieving POS is damn fine..
One of the reasons I moved to Oregon from California was because of Cali's BS laws that govern protection of self and property.
Having a carry permit in Nv. does not give one a license to kill, 007, The teacher at the gun course said, if you have to shoot, shoot to kill, and always tell police that you were afraid for your life, but be prepared to spend at least 10K on a lawyer to get out of a bogus murder charge, which is almost automatic in gun deaths. He then went on to explain how to get away with it, Not that I have any planned, but there are always candidates. I've always wanted to live in Oregon, Medical reasons for my wife keep me here untill she is 65, Maybe then.
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
It's simply a matter of percieved lessor of the two evils. Any thinking person should be able to see this. If you don't vote, you have no voice. Granted, sometimes the choice is between a douche and a terd sandwich, but at least, when you weigh all the parameters, one can clearly see where one candidate trends more towards their thinking. Do we always get what we want? Hell no. Are most politicians corrupt? Hell yeah. So I take it you sit on the sidelines bitching and waiting for the perfect candidate. Well guess what, they don't exist. Politicians are for the most part, in it for their own selfish reasons. Case in point, Arlen Spector..,He switched parties, why? Because he wanted to get re-elected, and he even admitted it. So, what's in it for carreer politicians, millionaires all? Power, that's what, they are drunk with power and giving it up is like losing part of their bodies. Please don't confuse me with all the boneheads that follow party lines, like your tea-party friends. I am and always was a worker, a union worker. I tried office work, not for me. I always needed to be outside, must be the Indian in me. I vote for whomever I believe will do the most good for workers, not corporations. The republicans I've known, "In General" were assholes that couldn't care less for hard working blue collar people, they were for the most part, a selfish greedy breed.
I see where you're coming from, but like Arlen Spector has proven, the line has been blurred. The Republicans and Democrats have the same agenda, just different means to achieve it.

Sorry Med, but Unions are like Illegal Aliens to politicians. If they don't need your vote, they don't give a shit about you. I don't want you guys to get chewed up and spat out, but these bastards track record shows otherwise.
 

cdrippper2

Active Member
Very excited about his win. HOWEVER, the main stream media is now making up shit about him...fuckers. Even though he is like his father and wants to restore America, news is trying to claim he wants to take away civil liberties. WTF
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
I would just like to add that we should hold anyone elected to a public office (any party) now to the highest scrutiny. We don't have lie detector tests for these people unfortunately, so we need to keep a wary eye.
 

stewie

Member
If those greedy mother fuckers would bring our manufacturing jobs back it would solve 97% of all this bullshit going on! Next illegals are out of here!! Where else worth while on this whole planet can you sneak in and get a bucket full of free shit, make money under the table and send it back, where? Fucking Mexico does not keep anyone from South America that sneeks into Mexico! Fuck, we need to grow some balls and send them packin. It is a slap in the face of all those who have done it the right way.

Peace and a bag of smoke to ya!
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
How compassionate.
THat's right. If you want let somebody come into your home and steal your possessions and.....If your family happens to be home hurt or kill them then that is your conscience you have to live with. . I will shoot to kill assuming that if I don't the theif will do the same. I grew up with such an attitude as yours. My parents believed there was nothhing worth taking a life over. I even asked," What if they were going to hurt me or my siblings" they still held that belief. I took that as a cowards way and always thought they did not care enough to protect us. I bought a gun at 13 from my hells angels cousins and vowed that i would protect my family.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
And what is wrong with a flat tax? AS long as it is applied accross the board. At present we are paying what amounts to a flat tax only the rich and the poor are pretty much exempt, as exemplified in the statistic that 47% of Americans do not pay taxes and further that the rich are loaded with tax writeoffs that reduce their burden to very low taxes. The middle class pay what amounts to 28+% of their income in taxes. An unfair burden by any account.
The problem with a flat tax is that it really hits the middle and lower classes much harder than the upper classes. If you figure out that someone making 50k a year, 5k (at 10% right) would go to the tax, nets $45,000. I am assuming that you are removing all tax breaks because otherwise the wealthier that can afford good accountants will continue to get so many more breaks than the regular public.

But anyway, look at the amount left over. 90% of a middle class income will not stretch nearly as far as someone in the top tiers.
House Payments for the year figure about $12k (26% of net income), heat, electricity and water around $3800 a year (8% of net income), about $7,200 a year ($600 a month) in food (16%), 2 decent cars about $200 a month each (gas, insurance, costs, fixing it ect) is around $7,400 a year (16%), clothes what about $100 a month for a normal family(?) $1200 a year (2%).

So that should be good for the basic nessecities right? So that leaves about $13,400 a year left over or about 29% for anything else they wish to do or need, sounds pretty good right? But then you start to think about if they actually would like to do stuff or have anything extra in life that 13k shrinks pretty fast for a family of four. So lets say they spend almost nothing and have $10k left over at the end of the year to save and invest.

10k at 10% growth rate (Not too many investments that will do that for this little purchase power, but w/e) over 30 years: $1,725,880.

Ok so now lets look at household that makes $330k a year and nets $300k. House at $3000 a month, at 26% it would be $78k a year. Bills would jump a bit due to larger home, but not by a tremendous amount (especially when you look at innefficiencies of older homes): $5,000 (1.5%). Groceries too would be more since they may want better foods, but it is not like they would eat a heck of a lot more right, so about $10k a year (3%). 3 nice cars: $18,000/yr. (6%) clothes $6k a year that way it is the same percent as the middle income family. I will add $6k a month for school loans too since they would need a advanced college degree to be in this income bracket (or extremely lucky) and about 120k in school loans would cost around $500 month.

So for the same essentials adjusted for the things a higher income would want, someone at 300k would be around 177,000 spent or 59% of their net income. So you can see right there they are able to save 41% where the middle class person with the same basic needs only has 29% left over. Add in insurance, and other stuff and it becomes even more disproportionate.

But really the big thing is that the person making 300k a year can reinvest $123,000 and at 10% for the same 30 years and make: $21,228,300, meaning the middle class person can only earn up to about 8% of the money that someone at 300k can.

This is the problem with the flat tax, and why people argue against it say that it hurts the middle classes and really only benefits the wealthy. Everyday purchases are hit the pocket book far harder percentage wise as you move down the income levels. Things like going out to eat, $20 for the first household - .04%, $80 for the 2nd- .02%, almost half for something that costs 4x more.

Look at things like license plate renewals. They are more expensive for more expensive cars, but % wise it is less, you look at getting a permit, tolls, insurance, deductibles, tickets/fines, anything it is all the same, the more you make the less it affects your pocketbook.

And especially taxes on stuff we buy. The more money you make, the less % of your income you need to spend to buy the things you want, the less that the sales tax will be % wise to your income.



These are the things that the libertarian party really is out there on, I would actually love to be one, but there economic ideas are far worse than either the republicans or democrats, and mostly (except abortion issues for my views) are better in my views of our personal freedoms than the dems, and way better than the republicans. If you actually examine who benefits from this economically you will see it is almost exclusively the wealthy that wins out in the flat tax or sales tax schemes.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Hanimal. That still does not address the fact that the higher bracket person uses the same services and yet pays a greater amount of money for those same services with a flat tax. . Whether the 10% effects their bottom line less adversely is really besides the point and is nothing less than a transfer of wealth from those who have become successful to those who have not. Brokjen down to it's bare essentials why should those who have made more money pay a greater % than those who have not for the same services.
 

abe23

Active Member
THat's right. If you want let somebody come into your home and steal your possessions and.....If your family happens to be home hurt or kill them then that is your conscience you have to live with. . I will shoot to kill assuming that if I don't the theif will do the same. I grew up with such an attitude as yours. My parents believed there was nothhing worth taking a life over. I even asked," What if they were going to hurt me or my siblings" they still held that belief. I took that as a cowards way and always thought they did not care enough to protect us. I bought a gun at 13 from my hells angels cousins and vowed that i would protect my family.
"....until the day I shot my family with it. The end."

Seriously, you would kill someone over a TV or some cash? The only scenario where I would want to kill someone would be if there's a threat to me, my family or someone else's life. Almost anything they steal can be replaced, but once you kill someone you can never go back. I don't understand how your car, television or even pot plants would be worth killing or seriously injuring someone over...
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
"....until the day I shot my family with it. The end."

Seriously, you would kill someone over a TV or some cash? The only scenario where I would want to kill someone would be if there's a threat to me, my family or someone else's life. Almost anything they steal can be replaced, but once you kill someone you can never go back. I don't understand how your car, television or even pot plants would be worth killing or seriously injuring someone over...

In many states it is completely justified to kill anyone who invades your home. Period!! Look up the castle doctrine.
 

abe23

Active Member
In many states it is completely justified to kill anyone who invades your home. Period!! Look up the castle doctrine.
I know that. It's not a legality problem I have with killing someone who is stealing my shit, it's an ethical one.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
"....until the day I shot my family with it. The end."

Seriously, you would kill someone over a TV or some cash? The only scenario where I would want to kill someone would be if there's a threat to me, my family or someone else's life. Almost anything they steal can be replaced, but once you kill someone you can never go back. I don't understand how your car, television or even pot plants would be worth killing or seriously injuring someone over...
You fail to recognize that if someone enters your home they would do you or your family bodily harm in order to not get caught. I would blow their brains right outta their melon because they had the guts to come into a home when there is a possiblity that somebody might be there. The percentage of people who get killed, raped ior injured is too high for me to take chances with my families safety.
If someone were breaking into my car I would not shoot them, if they were in my grow area I would not shoot them, but if they were inside my home they are DOA.
A large part of the reason i have my grwo seaprate from my Home is that very reason. If they want my plants they can take them. I might be armed when i coinfronted someone JIC they wanted to do me bodily harm but I would not shoot them unless they had a firearm and threatened me with it.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
I know that. It's not a legality problem I have with killing someone who is stealing my shit, it's an ethical one.
You said it in your first post thaht you would kill someone if you feared for your families safetyy. If someone is inside of your home would you not have fear for your families safety?
I suyre as hell would and would kill a person who invaded my home with the intent of stealing my things because of the fear they would hurt my family to avoid getting caught.
 
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