Quick Question mA

I take it you didn't watch the video.

The 1000w HPS has significantly less light than top quality LED systems. The sun produces 1/2 as much usable light energy as top of the line LED's. Buying a $500 Blackstar LED will not touch a 1000w HPS. Buying the top of the line Stealth Grow LED will out grow a 1000w HPS any day of the week, with 40% less power consumption.

To get a good 1000w HID setup you're looking at $300 for a MH/HPS switchable ballast, $130 for a hortilux 1000w HPS, $120 for a 1000w MH; that's $550 already....

Replacing the bulbs every 2 grows, or every 6 months that's $600/year in bulbs + $300 = $900 the first year for quality components. In 5 years, that's $3000 in bulbs + $300 for the ballast, so $3300. Now you said it cost about $20/month in power, and the LED is %40 cheaper. So over 5 years, that's $20/month x 12 x 5 = $1200 in power bills, compared to $720 for the LED light.

So in 5 years, it costs $4500 to operate, and purchase HID lighting.

In 5 years it costs $4220 to operate and purchase LED lighting.

Long haul, LED is cheaper and with the right panel, also more powerful you just have to be invested for more than 5 years.

no i dont watch vids done by salesman. thats why all the missinformed as it is....an led has double the output as the sun???..,..,what???
wevee put them to actual hands on use and every single one on the market faiued agsasnt what they try and compare them to, so you can fall for sales hype or adivice from actual unbiased hands on exp. there isnt even many stores up here that will even stock the garbage. if they are so good and double the power as the sun why do commercial guys or hi end growers never use them...

the way ;larger yields and potency make it well worth the lousy $500 to set up an hid. its paid off in the first crop.

your nuts if you think you mneed to by new bulbs every 2 grws or that we can only do 2 a year..more sales crap. once a year is just fine. so is under 200 a year in new bulbs
not sure where you get them numbers from but they are way out to lunch

LED panels can do good for veg but for flowering I wouldn't go with them until someone here has flowered with just LED lights no CFLs, or other kind of light with the LEDs just the LED lights only but also when they come down in price for LEDs that can be used for flowering.

Also for flowering you can get away with using a single HPS lamp for 1 year worth of 12/12. My 70w HPS has a life rating of 24,000 hours and divide that by 12 and you get up to 2,000 days of 12/12. Mind you I wouldn't run a light/lamp that long but it can be done.

Changing a HID lamp every 6 months is a rule of thumb to make sure you always have the best lumes per watt out put but also it will cost less to run compared to a older lamp.

Also for startup cost of $400+ for a LED panel seems to high of a cost and having to order it online is not an option for me so it would cost more in stores. I'll stick with my 13w LED panel, 2 foot 26w tube florescent light, CFLs and my 70w MH lamp for veg and cloning and my 70w HPS for flowering.

Cost for a 70w HPS lamp and ballast around $50
Cost for a 70w MH lamp and ballast around $100

Cannabisworks said:

no i dont watch vids done by salesman. thats why all the missinformed as it is....an led has double the output as the sun???..,..,what???
wevee put them to actual hands on use and every single one on the market faiued agsasnt what they try and compare them to, so you can fall for sales hype or adivice from actual unbiased hands on exp. there isnt even many stores up here that will even stock the garbage. if they are so good and double the power as the sun why do commercial guys or hi end growers never use them...

the way ;larger yields and potency make it well worth the lousy $500 to set up an hid. its paid off in the first crop.

your nuts if you think you mneed to by new bulbs every 2 grws or that we can only do 2 a year..more sales crap. once a year is just fine. so is under 200 a year in new bulbs
not sure where you get them numbers from but they are way out to lunch

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Lots of people only use bulbs for 2 grows before replacing.

You can think what you want, I bet dollars to donuts you've never tested decent LED's. Of course there is sales hype in ads, but light/par meters and hundreds of grow journals say your wrong.

If the meter is one foot away from the LED panel the watt's/m2 was 170+.... the sun, with DIRECT sunlight in absolutely perfect conditions, with zero clouds is under 200 watts/m2. It's called math bud, sorry if you don't accept direct evidence. A 1000w HPS (150k lumens) puts out more lumens than the sun as well.

The amount of light between 300-700nm produced by a high-end LED will greatly surpass the amount of light produced by HID lighting at far less wattage.

dood ive been in the bizz for close to 30 years so yes i am an actual hired tester for products so ive tested every brand there is. they all fell flat compared to hid. its the same missleading info as cfl does to compare light outputs. they show a 42 watt cfl as compared to 150 watts. but they forgot to tell you its 150 of reg incandescent lighting and those suck. its not to 150 watt of hid lighting and is again...a world of difference

show us the science to say the led is more powerfull than the sun. not a st6oner say so..science factual, thats just rediculous to say its better than the sun. even hid isnt better than the sun
you keep reffering to colour but dont look at power. outputs. you a salesman?
you put the sun and an led at same distance to anything and show me facts that led is brighter and better....lol..thats a good one, needed a good morning chuckle

i see...you say see the grow journals for proof. so you go buy a picture..i dont. i need to have the product tested for true facts. like the other dood said..not bad for small veg but fall flat on flower.
kinda like performance cars...all the fancy extras and gas saving is great. but without horsepower you aint gonna win anything

SOLAR RADIATION REACHING THE EARTH SURFACE

"However, our calculations are not yet finished because we have not yet considered the influence of the Earth's atmosphere. The value we have calculated is for the average solar radiation intensity at the outer regions of the Earth’s atmosphere. What we want to know is how much of this radiation reaches the earth surface where we are.

The atmosphere absorbs about 68 W/m2 and reflects 77 W/m2 (Wallace and Hobbs 1977). The radiation reaching the Earth’s surface is therefore on average 198 W/m2, i.e. 58% of the radiation intercepted by the Earth."

(http://home.iprimus.com.au/nielsens/solrad.html, Dr. Ron Neilsen )

So under 200 watts/m2 on an absolutely perfect day. Which lets face it, isn't everyday so you can't use that number as an average. High power LED systems are testing incredibly close to 200 watts/m2 all the time.

Realistically, it doesn't matter what you say; they speak for themselves. There are so many grows that use LED's is staggering, and more keep popping up everyday with astounding results that just keep getting better and better as LED technology gets better.

Cannabisworks said:

i see...you say see the grow journals for proof. so you go buy a picture..i dont. i need to have the product tested for true facts. like the other dood said..not bad for small veg but fall flat on flower.
kinda like performance cars...all the fancy extras and gas saving is great. but without horsepower you aint gonna win anything

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Do you believe Australia exists? Have you been there?

ok again missleading sales info...your comparing sun at millions of miles away...and an led at face level...put the sun at face level with the led and see what you get....lol. your adding extra variables and isnt how things are done..its done by salesman to misslead or confuse the consumer. i dont have clouds and so on in my grow room so how does any of that relate to actual use.
or go put an led next to the sun way up there and see what it will do for you...your showing a link to nothing related to a indoor grow.

you could run 2 rooms both with 600 watts. one being hid and other led...and all same conditions and equipment and i bet the led wont get anywhere near final quality or yield

Cannabisworks said:

ok again missleading sales info...your comparing sun at millions of miles away...and an led at face level...put the sun at face level with the led and see what you get....lol. your adding extra variables and isnt how things are done..its done by salesman to misslead or confuse the consumer. i dont have clouds and so on in my grow room so how does any of that relate to actual use.
or go put an led next to the sun way up there and see what it will do for you...your showing a link to nothing related to a indoor grow.

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It's about available energy at plant level, you're mixing things up with improper comparisons. OF COURSE an LED panel isn't ACTUALLY as powerful as the sun, that's probably one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Hmmm... giant nuclear explosions, or Light Emitting Diode... hmmmm

Who cares if the sun is actually more powerful we can't use that power here on earth so it's irrelevant, it's what we can use @ plant level that matters, and LED's can provide more light to the plants more consistently than the sun can.

Cannabisworks said:

you could run 2 rooms both with 600 watts. one being hid and other led...and all same conditions and equipment and i bet the led wont get anywhere near final quality or yield

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You're so far behind the times it's just silly. LED's are pulling over 1.5g/watt.... Show me a 600 watt HPS that can pull 900 grams!

Two of these would whip the living shit out of a 600watt HPS.

who did 900gram with 600W LEDs? sounds unreal, no other lights involve? is there a journal of that grow on the net? 900grams is a lot of weed...

Cannabiswork: it's not like the LEDs don't work, just not quite as good as HPS for the most part... checkout blue goo on youtube, led beside 600W and 1000W.

Sorry maybe there's some confusion; I said LED's have pulled 1.5g/watt; not in reference to a specific 600watt panel pulling 900g's. HID lighting can't do 1.5g/watt period.

I actually think it was a 345watt HGL X-lens that did the 1.5g/watt grow....


Most people won't shell out the huge money to get the best quality LED panels (myself included) but they can produce quite amazing results.

all the gram per watt is a crock of poo to. nobody adds all what it costs to do a grow. just bulbs. so no way is it any accurate.

i call bullshit on that yeild and info again to. im not new at this so not as easy to misslead., n 30 years of growing ive yet to see any form of bulb compare to qua;ity and yield of hid...cost or efficiency for end result

getting that weight under hid sure is achievable...just needs a longer veg and training. i get close to that with 4 week veg and 1x600 hps and an oz cost me about 8 bucks to grow. where is this mythical expense you say to run hid

It cool man, if you want to ignore clear and concise evidence that's your business. To each his own!

Considering that LED's didn't really start being even slightly worth while until about 2 years ago it doesn't surprise me that in 30 years you haven't seen anything better than HID lighting. There are quality companies that use quality parts, and are getting phenomenal results but like I said, if you want to just cover your eyes, and plug your ears that's fine - more LED's for the rest of us.

New plasma lighting looks extremely promising as well.

http://www.progrowlights.com/Store/tabid/745/ProductID/15/Default.aspx

i dont see any evidence. i see your say so..and some link about the sun that had nothing to do with indoor growing. welll duh, there wasnt led when i started. was just a refference to doing this sort of testing or various companies products is my job. so there hasnt been much of any so called new superiour stuff like led claims yet
like you said..compnaies getting results...not real loife growers. man thats the oldest sales crap ever., didnt they tell you that when this led co hired you, gauranteed anyone saying led outdo hid is a lier or a salesman. we outted that many years ago...catch up bud

Cannabisworks said:

we outted that many years ago...catch up bud

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That's the problem, it's not lights from "many years ago" that are better than HID.... it's brand new top of the line LED systems that I can all but guarantee you haven't tried.

You say you require data as proof, but offer none yourself where's the fairness in that? It's called being biased. Do you claim to have tested all the LED panels on the market? Haight SS, EVO LED, Blackdog, GrowStealth, HGL, Advanced Diamond Series, Plantphotonics? You're making a blanket statement about all LED's based upon... well, nothing really. Just some tests you did years ago... that's just ridiculous.

to someone trying to sell something it ,may apear rediculous. not to someone who`s worked in the bizz for years and knows what goes on behind the doors. have you been there to actualy know and see the lies and how lables and so on are done to make sales?
when y6ou work in a hydro shop we get free hand outs all the time fro,m everyone and their dog trying to get out on the market, so ya ive done almost all types or brands while i did that as a full time job.
its not me being biased google works quite well to see all the led info and non show any relation to using hid in an indoor grow environment done by a true grower and not a sales guy or done by the led co themselves.
obviously you havent done any side by side yourself and merly repeat what the boss told you to say on them or what other exagertaors say oinline

Relax guys, they're just lights and if we're happy using a specific one then that's all that matters. There shouldn't be all this negativity in the air.