Question on evap'ing Ethonol, first time

NugHeuser

Well-Known Member
When you have small amounts just scrape it out as thin as you can over some glass, then put the glass on top of a bedlamp and switch on the bulb....
You should see the alcohol start to bubble off. Don't leave it there. Just cycle the temps a few times and you will get quite a lot out.
Well I already have a vacuum pump now so might as well use it. Do you think it would be a problem to just turn it on and let it go until the muffin falls without actually knowing what my vacuum pressure is at?
This is a weaker pump so I wouldn't think that too much pressure would be a worry right?
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
Dunno man, don't want to give you advice that will get your nice pump broken.
My buddy has a pump so I never worry about these kinds of things.
 

NugHeuser

Well-Known Member
Well I purged for a good 5 minutes, right off the bat it started to bubble and rise, then after about 2 minutes it dropped back down and didn't do anything else for the next several mins so I shit it off and took a look at it.
Looks like a wax consistency with craters from popped bubbles everywhere. So does this mean it's done and I purged out the ethonol already? And that if I wanted a shatter consistency I'd just keep it heated and vacuumed longer to harden the material?
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
The jar I have is about 5.5 inches in diameter and 6.5 inches to the very top, would you consider that large?
I've heard talk about implosions but never read about any.

Also the vacuum pump that I got, I read from Matt rize or someone that it's actually not powerful enough to bring a chamber to a full vacuum, they said you need a 2 stage and this is a 2.5 cfm 1 stage, so that should make things a bit more safe right? And speaking of which, I can't find an hg guage around here so I'm going to have to order one, but I'm ready to purge so do you think it would be okay to purge without the guage? Considering that it is the weaker of the vacuum pumps?
If your puddle had reached more than 100C/212F, you should have seen some reaction.

5.5" diameter is a relatively small area to purge in a thin film.

You only need to reach 10,000 microns/ -29.5" Hg and a single stage pump will typically reach around 100 microns.

Too many variables to operate reliably without a gauge. Check at a refrigeration supply for a compound vacuum gauge.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Also is the pump suppose to smoke? I turned it on for about 10 seconds and saw a couple liquid beads run through the tubing and then started to exhaust smoke. My oil was just over the fill line and I noticed now it's right at the fill line. So either it burnt up a bunch of oil all at once or maybe just sucked some into the motor.

I'll be honest I'm a little gun shy with this.
Rotary vane vacuum pumps smoke.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Well I purged for a good 5 minutes, right off the bat it started to bubble and rise, then after about 2 minutes it dropped back down and didn't do anything else for the next several mins so I shit it off and took a look at it.
Looks like a wax consistency with craters from popped bubbles everywhere. So does this mean it's done and I purged out the ethonol already? And that if I wanted a shatter consistency I'd just keep it heated and vacuumed longer to harden the material?
I purge ethanol at 125F and 10000 microns/-29.5" Hg until the larger solvent bubbles cease and only the small fizzy CO2 bubbles are present. It takes longer than several minutes.......
 

FlyHigh589

Well-Known Member
K sorry I rarely check the site anymore.. but you should absolutely be fine doing small/medium size runs at home without a gauge especially with a weaker pump. My gauge broke a year ago and I never bothered to replace it.

Basically I just break the seal every couple minutes for the first 10-15 minutes to get plenty of reaction and muffin-ing and shrinking back down.
After most of the visible reactions vastly slow down, you can turn the vacuum off but leave it on heat (around 115ish) for a few minutes and it will give it a smoother, less bubbly look.

I generally am using butane so for me, I will have a 12 gram patty, spread thinly, about a 6 inch circle. I purge in a 10 inch pot that looks like you would cook pasta in it. After I get it spread as thin as I can by inflating the muffin as large as I can manage at the beginning, I generally purge for around 6-10 hours depending on thickness and visible reaction.

This generally makes me a very stable snap and pull that if bent/pulled slowly it stretches but if done quickly it shatters. I can then winterize it with good etho to remove more of he waxes and plant fats and can generally then easily end with a more traditional “shatter”

If I would have kept the un-winterized product on purge for 18-24 hours, I can get a more wet, sugary, slab that seems to sweat and degrade a bit (not quickly, but depending on storage can be a couple days, can be a couple weeks, can be never) as crumby and waxes can via auto-buddering.

If you take your purges product then increase heat at the end without vacuum, and whip it with a small tool or toothpick, you can end with a more creamy, waxy, or buddery product.

Most important thing to remember is to never just expect exactly what you want. There are so so so many variables that without a proper lab setting and equipment, you can never expect to control them all. Because of this, you will often end up with 2 different products, both created by the same starting material with no visible or discernible differences.
Moisture, ambient temperature, and loads of other variables can drastically change your end product.

Hope something I said helps ya a bit!! Unfortunatly I’ve had to do most of my learning from trial and error and trying to find intelligent sources online who can share what they have learned. I live in a very red state and fully understand the dangers, but I do my best to be safe and go as far as wearing a gas mask my brother “acquired” from the marine Corp after a tour. Hazmat suit as well.

But always be safe and best of luck!! Let me know if you have any other questions and I will do my best to answer if it’s something I can help with!!
 

NugHeuser

Well-Known Member
The correct answer is that EtOH is flammable, and having an open dish of flammable liquid sitting around in the kitchen won't win any Betty Crocker awards or fire marshal salutes, even with the low probability of ignition.

Consider how big a fire the 40 ml would create, and the issues that might present at a chosen location. For instance, cooks splash small quantities of ethanol in dishes and ignite them when cooking flambe, but chose their location and the quantity they use is critical.

Vacuum is the fastest way to remove residual solvents at low temperatures, but ethanol is a Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) solvent, and you can get it low enough to use without it.

What simple evaporation will leave you with, after most of the alcohol is gone, is resin with an azeotropic mixture of EtOH and water, plus some emulsion.

If you stick it in the freezer for a bit, the resin will become more solid and you can pour off or wick/dropper off much of the water mixture.

You can remove the rest in a 250F oven in a shallow dish. That will partially decarboxylate it and if you don't want it fully decarboxylated, remove it when the water bubbles cease.
You mentioned decarbing at 250F, I thought this was only for edibles? Do I want to decarb my product after winterizing?
The shatter will be used for vape pens if that makes a difference.
TIA
 

FlyHigh589

Well-Known Member
You mentioned decarbing at 250F, I thought this was only for edibles? Do I want to decarb my product after winterizing?
The shatter will be used for vape pens if that makes a difference.
TIA
You are correct in thinking decarbing is for edible use. The cannabinoids in your product will become active as you vaporize it, so no need for decarbing.
For making vapable concentrates (dab) you really want to keep the temperature as low as possible, that is, if you want the fullest, richest tasting/smelling end product as possible. I don’t have the source but I believe I have read that the terpene with the lowest evaporation temperature is somewhere around 130 degrees Fahrenheit. Maybe 5-6 degrees in either direction, I can’t remember exactly, but most terps will evaporate well under 200 degrees, especially if sustained at that temp.
If using vacuum purge, an ideal temp range should be between 100-150 degrees depending on what you want to end up with.
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
You mentioned decarbing at 250F, I thought this was only for edibles? Do I want to decarb my product after winterizing?
The shatter will be used for vape pens if that makes a difference.
TIA
Decarbing isn't be necessary for vaporizing. I mentioned it because you will get some if you use heat to drive off the water.

The solution won't reach the 250F oven temperature until the water is gone and if you pull it when the water bubbles cease, it won't continue on to be fully decarboxylated.

We use vacuum to process at a lower temperature. I typically use 125F and -29.5" Hg for ethanol removal.
 
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