Question on evap'ing Ethonol, first time

NugHeuser · Jun 10, 2018

I have some rosin for vape carts being winterized, 40 ml of alc. with 3 grams of rosin and I'm ready to strain it.
I'm going to evap it in an 8x4 pyrex dish, my question is how dangerous is this if I just leave it on the kitchen counter with a fan blowing over it? Is this a definite no no?
I could put it in my garage but it's hot and mucky with real high humidity.
Appreciate any help!

NugHeuser · Jun 10, 2018

Also, I'm trying to find info on this and I'm seeing people talk about vacuum's, I've seen video's of people using vacuum ovens for huge batches, is it really necessary for me to use a vacuum of some sort to come out with a good clean product or will letting the alc. evap on it's own do just fine?

NugHeuser · Jun 10, 2018

Sorry I'm not real up on making extracts and what not, I appreciate any and all help!

Fadedawg · Jun 10, 2018

NugHeuser said:
I have some rosin for vape carts being winterized, 40 ml of alc. with 3 grams of rosin and I'm ready to strain it.
I'm going to evap it in an 8x4 pyrex dish, my question is how dangerous is this if I just leave it on the kitchen counter with a fan blowing over it? Is this a definite no no?
I could put it in my garage but it's hot and mucky with real high humidity.
Appreciate any help!

The correct answer is that EtOH is flammable, and having an open dish of flammable liquid sitting around in the kitchen won't win any Betty Crocker awards or fire marshal salutes, even with the low probability of ignition.

Consider how big a fire the 40 ml would create, and the issues that might present at a chosen location. For instance, cooks splash small quantities of ethanol in dishes and ignite them when cooking flambe, but chose their location and the quantity they use is critical.

Vacuum is the fastest way to remove residual solvents at low temperatures, but ethanol is a Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) solvent, and you can get it low enough to use without it.

What simple evaporation will leave you with, after most of the alcohol is gone, is resin with an azeotropic mixture of EtOH and water, plus some emulsion.

If you stick it in the freezer for a bit, the resin will become more solid and you can pour off or wick/dropper off much of the water mixture.

You can remove the rest in a 250F oven in a shallow dish. That will partially decarboxylate it and if you don't want it fully decarboxylated, remove it when the water bubbles cease.

NugHeuser · Jun 10, 2018

Fadedawg said:
The correct answer is that EtOH is flammable, and having an open dish of flammable liquid sitting around in the kitchen won't win any Betty Crocker awards or fire marshal salutes, even with the low probability of ignition.

Consider how big a fire the 40 ml would create, and the issues that might present at a chosen location. For instance, cooks splash small quantities of ethanol in dishes and ignite them when cooking flambe, but chose their location and the quantity they use is critical.

Vacuum is the fastest way to remove residual solvents at low temperatures, but ethanol is a Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) solvent, and you can get it low enough to use without it.

What simple evaporation will leave you with, after most of the alcohol is gone, is resin with an azeotropic mixture of EtOH and water, plus some emulsion.

If you stick it in the freezer for a bit, the resin will become more solid and you can pour off or wick/dropper off much of the water mixture.

You can remove the rest in a 250F oven in a shallow dish. That will partially decarboxylate it and if you don't want it fully decarboxylated, remove it when the water bubbles cease.

Thanks for the detailed response!
So before you commented I ended up filtering the mixture and pouring it into a dish with a fan over it and then had to leave for several hours. Just got back and looks like all the alc. has evaped.
You mentioned decarbing, I assume then that the heat from the rosin press plates doesn't do this(195°)?
So do I need to put it in the oven at this point still even though it looks like all the alc. is evaped?
I appreciate your response!

I actually just noticed that there's still some cloudy/creme colored semi liquid in a couple pooled spots in the dish. Not sure what that is? I used two coffee filters to filter through so it shouldn't be waxes I wouldn't think. Will puting the dish in the oven help dissipate this? Also will puting it in the oven darken the color or take away any of the terps?

NugHeuser · Jun 10, 2018

Okay so the cream colored stuff must be the water you spoke of so I'll stick this in the freezer then try wicking away the water then stick it in the oven.
I just touched the concentrate surface and there's a thin film with some gooey wax underneath

NugHeuser · Jun 10, 2018

Well I stuck it in the oven a few minutes and nothing was happening and was worried about ruining terps so I pulled it out.
Anyone happen to know about what percentage is lost to fats, waxes, lipids ect?
I started with 3 grams, wondering how much I ended with since I have to mix ratios of it for the cartridges.
Honey like consistency, here's a pic

FlyHigh589 · Jun 10, 2018

If you properly winterized it and kept it cold enough long enough then when you strained it you would have seen how much and what was removed

I can not recommend getting a vacuum pump enough.
You don’t need a big oven, you can get a vacuum pump from harbor freight for 80$ or less, make your own pot and lid seal, get a cheap Walmart hot plate for 30ish$ that can go down to 110 degrees or so and you will NOT regret it. It’s sooo much better than natural evap, and let’s you create much more diverse consistencies, and just ends up with a better product, IMO.

NugHeuser · Jun 11, 2018

FlyHigh589 said:
If you properly winterized it and kept it cold enough long enough then when you strained it you would have seen how much and what was removed

I can not recommend getting a vacuum pump enough.
You don’t need a big oven, you can get a vacuum pump from harbor freight for 80$ or less, make your own pot and lid seal, get a cheap Walmart hot plate for 30ish$ that can go down to 110 degrees or so and you will NOT regret it. It’s sooo much better than natural evap, and let’s you create much more diverse consistencies, and just ends up with a better product, IMO.

Well I did a decent amount of reading and took your advice. Got a vacuum setup I'll be trying to throw together today.

I have a question though, there were no standard lid screw on mason jars that I could fit my hand into, I ended up getting a short one with decent girth so I can fit my hand in there, but the lid is a push top, still has rubber seals/gaskets but is simply a push on and pull of lid, will that work to keep vacuum pressure or do I need to get one where the lid screws on?

They had jars with screw on lids that my hand would fit in but they were square shaped and I read that the squares aren't as strong as the circular jars so wasn't sure if I should steer clear of those ones..

Here's what I got

FlyHigh589 · Jun 11, 2018

I would think as long as it’s air sealed and can hold negative pressure then you should be okay.

Keep in mind though, that since it’s a fairly small jar you will need to really keep the “muffin” down when you start the vacuum purge by breaking the vacuum seal when it swells because anything more than 3-4 grams in there and it will be tough to keep it small enough to comfortably muffin up and spread thin.

I believe you will be very pleased with your purchase and the ease of making fantastic product every time with no fear of excess residuals.

And last little tip, make sure that when there is a vacuum in your chamber, you NEVER leave it... ALWAYS break the vacuum when the pump is off.. my first run I was leaving for work so I just turned the pump off and left, got home and the vacuum had pulled against the pump all day and pulled all the pump lubricant into my pot and all over my 8 gram patty

I’ve had at least a half dozen failed “experiments” but I always make damn sure I only make them once, and always try to pass on anything I learned in the process to anyone who could use the info.

Let me know if there is anything else you have questions about and I will do my best to help!!

Fadedawg · Jun 12, 2018

NugHeuser said:
Okay so the cream colored stuff must be the water you spoke of so I'll stick this in the freezer then try wicking away the water then stick it in the oven.
I just touched the concentrate surface and there's a thin film with some gooey wax underneath

Yes, the water/alcohol/terpene azeotrope will be light beige.

Fadedawg · Jun 12, 2018

NugHeuser said:
Well I stuck it in the oven a few minutes and nothing was happening and was worried about ruining terps so I pulled it out.
Anyone happen to know about what percentage is lost to fats, waxes, lipids ect?
I started with 3 grams, wondering how much I ended with since I have to mix ratios of it for the cartridges.
Honey like consistency, here's a pic View attachment 4148965 View attachment 4148967

Did you preheat the oven? How thick was the puddle? You will definitely get a reaction at 250F.

Fadedawg · Jun 12, 2018

NugHeuser said:
Well I did a decent amount of reading and took your advice. Got a vacuum setup I'll be trying to throw together today.

I have a question though, there were no standard lid screw on mason jars that I could fit my hand into, I ended up getting a short one with decent girth so I can fit my hand in there, but the lid is a push top, still has rubber seals/gaskets but is simply a push on and pull of lid, will that work to keep vacuum pressure or do I need to get one where the lid screws on?

They had jars with screw on lids that my hand would fit in but they were square shaped and I read that the squares aren't as strong as the circular jars so wasn't sure if I should steer clear of those ones..

Here's what I got
View attachment 4149424 View attachment 4149425

You need your concentrate in a thin film with as much surface area as you can provide. A small fruit jar will work for small amounts and a large fruit jar is dangerous under full vacuum, as they can implode.

NugHeuser · Jun 12, 2018

Fadedawg said:
Did you preheat the oven? How thick was the puddle? You will definitely get a reaction at 250F.

yeah I pre heated the oven, it was just a thin amber glaze across the Pyrex dish, I stuck it in the oven before actually scraping it all together. I'm guessing I was probably suppose to scrape it together first?

NugHeuser · Jun 12, 2018

Fadedawg said:
You need your concentrate in a thin film with as much surface area as you can provide. A small fruit jar will work for small amounts and a large fruit jar is dangerous under full vacuum, as they can implode.

The jar I have is about 5.5 inches in diameter and 6.5 inches to the very top, would you consider that large?
I've heard talk about implosions but never read about any.

Also the vacuum pump that I got, I read from Matt rize or someone that it's actually not powerful enough to bring a chamber to a full vacuum, they said you need a 2 stage and this is a 2.5 cfm 1 stage, so that should make things a bit more safe right? And speaking of which, I can't find an hg guage around here so I'm going to have to order one, but I'm ready to purge so do you think it would be okay to purge without the guage? Considering that it is the weaker of the vacuum pumps?

NugHeuser · Jun 12, 2018

FlyHigh589 said:
I would think as long as it’s air sealed and can hold negative pressure then you should be okay.

Keep in mind though, that since it’s a fairly small jar you will need to really keep the “muffin” down when you start the vacuum purge by breaking the vacuum seal when it swells because anything more than 3-4 grams in there and it will be tough to keep it small enough to comfortably muffin up and spread thin.

I believe you will be very pleased with your purchase and the ease of making fantastic product every time with no fear of excess residuals.

And last little tip, make sure that when there is a vacuum in your chamber, you NEVER leave it... ALWAYS break the vacuum when the pump is off.. my first run I was leaving for work so I just turned the pump off and left, got home and the vacuum had pulled against the pump all day and pulled all the pump lubricant into my pot and all over my 8 gram patty

I’ve had at least a half dozen failed “experiments” but I always make damn sure I only make them once, and always try to pass on anything I learned in the process to anyone who could use the info.

Let me know if there is anything else you have questions about and I will do my best to help!!

You've been awesome help, I really appreciate it!!
So when you speak of the muffin, my jar is about 5.5 in diameter and 6.5 tall, you think the muffin from roughly 3.5 grams will still be pushing it?
Also I don't have a guage on my pump yet because I have to order it, the pump was the smaller model though, 1 cycle, 2.5 cfm, 75 micron/10 Pascal (whatever that means), do you think I'd be safe to purge with this without having the guage on? Should just be this one run and then I'll be sitting good for a while, by then I'd have the guage.

NugHeuser · Jun 12, 2018

What I have so far. Just a little eary trying to run in without the guage on there.
I've also got my magnetic stirrer/hot plate for a heat source. But there's an extremely fine line from the plate being warm to really really hot when adjusting the knob so I'll just have to keep I close eye on it I guess.

What would happen if the hot plate got above the 110 degrees F or "too hot"?

NugHeuser · Jun 12, 2018

Also is the pump suppose to smoke? I turned it on for about 10 seconds and saw a couple liquid beads run through the tubing and then started to exhaust smoke. My oil was just over the fill line and I noticed now it's right at the fill line. So either it burnt up a bunch of oil all at once or maybe just sucked some into the motor.

I'll be honest I'm a little gun shy with this.

NugHeuser · Jun 12, 2018

For fucks sake.
I turned it on again just briefly after reading the smoke is normal to watch the oil and it dropped even more as soon as I shut it off. So I started adding more oil to it, it took a little more than I had though to bring it back to the fill line which is the halfway point. Then I switched it on again and the oil shot up to almost full, it's about 3/4 now and says "do not overfill".
So I'm not sure what to do now.
Frustrating.

ANC · Jun 12, 2018

When you have small amounts just scrape it out as thin as you can over some glass, then put the glass on top of a bedlamp and switch on the bulb....
You should see the alcohol start to bubble off. Don't leave it there. Just cycle the temps a few times and you will get quite a lot out.

Question on evap'ing Ethonol, first time

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