Question about electricity

droopy107 · May 5, 2014

If you are blowing a fuse that is part of your ballast cord, you have a problem with the cord or the ballast itself. The other equipment you listed are upstream of the fuse that is blowing, therefore they are not part of the problem. Only a load after the fuse or breaker will cause it to let go. If I'm understanding you correctly, this fuse is a integral part of the cord that is directly attached to the ballast. If this is the case, the only possible culprits are the parts of your HID equipment.

Also, it must be a developing problem because you said you have been running this equipment 24/7 before you tried the timer in the circuit. Somewhere in the cord/ballast/hood you've got a dead short to ground that only makes contact when things get twisted/ squeezed in just the right way. I would say the cord is most likely the culprit because the cord is the piece you most likely moved around the most, but it could be anywhere in the lighting system.
These are the kind of issues that growers need to take very seriously.
I've been in the electrical trades for a long time now and I can tell you that if I couldn't conclusively find that problem, I would shut that thing down right now and get a new one. It's a fire waiting to happen.

If you decide to roll the dice, at least keep the cord/ballast away from anything flammable.

Smootherpete · May 5, 2014

Sand4x105 said:
FYI: A hair dryer/Coffee maker/Micro wave, plugged into your grow room circuit will blow that breaker every time....
You must get a dedicated breaker... Or...
Later on... when you come back from a night out... and your grow room is dark, because your GF plugged her hair dryer right into the grow room circuit... and it "POPPED" the breaker and you don't know why.....

That's how I run it, a good grow op needs its own breaker circuit.

FlashBabylon · May 6, 2014

droopy107 said:
If you are blowing a fuse that is part of your ballast cord, you have a problem with the cord or the ballast itself. The other equipment you listed are upstream of the fuse that is blowing, therefore they are not part of the problem. Only a load after the fuse or breaker will cause it to let go. If I'm understanding you correctly, this fuse is a integral part of the cord that is directly attached to the ballast. If this is the case, the only possible culprits are the parts of your HID equipment.

Just to be clear on this as their seems to be some confusion, and I certainly don't want to burn my house down....

This is the config that caused the problem:

Outlet -> timer -> cheapo 5 gang extension cable -> Ballast AND fan

This blows the fuse in the plug of the ballast. If the ballast is plugged in *on its own* to the timer, it works fine. The problem only happens if the ballast and fan are plugged into the multiplug, which is plugged into the mains outlet.

I have realised two things today however that almost certainly mean I was the culprit. The first is that I was running a 250W bulb at 400W by accident like a complete dolt. When I moved the ballast I must have knocked the switch. Second is that the light might not have come back on because I was powercycling too fast. It seems to like a few mins downtime before it will come back on.

CFLGREENTHUMB · May 6, 2014

I am even running all autos on a 20-on/4-off schedule. It will not hurt your plants to get a rest. Actually I am of the belief that giving them some darkness (4-6) hours is critical to their maximum growth. Some say run them 24/0 but others agree with me. Either way the above poster is right. You will ruin your bulbs so much faster if you never give them a break. From what I have researched, 10-20 out of 168 hours minimum is recommended by most of the high end bulb manufacturers. They wont tell you this in the packaging because they want you to go through bulbs quicker :-)

. Anyways good luck with your situation and hopefully you get everything straightened out. Happy growing!

FlashBabylon · May 6, 2014

Thanks for your answer, though my question was not relating to whether 24/0 is better than 18/6 or 20/4, that debate will rage on forever with each side claiming they have already won. My question was relating to whether *changing* the schedule part way through growth would damage them, and, separately, whether, if I decide to stay 24/0, would it damage them to have 20 mins dark time once a week to preserve the bulb?
Having just been and bought a 400W bulb to increase coverage, I am likely to reduce to 18/6 if it wont hurt them, just to save electricity. They will still receive more watt-hours at 18/6 with a 400W than 24/0 with a 250W, so I'm hoping it will aid growth on that basis as well as the increased coverage from having the lamp slightly higher.

waterdawg · May 6, 2014

"The first is that I was running a 250W bulb at 400W by accident like a complete dolt. When I moved the ballast I must have knocked the switch. Second is that the light might not have come back on because I was powercycling too fast. It seems to like a few mins downtime before it will come back on."

Well there ya go lol. So all good?

waterdawg · May 6, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Thanks for your answer, though my question was not relating to whether 24/0 is better than 18/6 or 20/4, that debate will rage on forever with each side claiming they have already won. My question was relating to whether *changing* the schedule part way through growth would damage them, and, separately, whether, if I decide to stay 24/0, would it damage them to have 20 mins dark time once a week to preserve the bulb?
Having just been and bought a 400W bulb to increase coverage, I am likely to reduce to 18/6 if it wont hurt them, just to save electricity. They will still receive more watt-hours at 18/6 with a 400W than 24/0 with a 250W, so I'm hoping it will aid growth on that basis as well as the increased coverage from having the lamp slightly higher.

Should be fine lowering schedule. I progressively shorten mine and have never had issues re: hermies, etc. Not an expert by any stretch though just my experience.

indicaheaven · May 6, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Second is that the light might not have come back on because I was powercycling too fast. It seems to like a few mins downtime before it will come back on.

HID lighting requires igniteers for hps, and other heated elements in MH.
These elements need to cool down, before than can be "Re-Sparked"
This is referred to as the restrike time.

FlashBabylon · May 6, 2014

waterdawg said:
Well there ya go lol. So all good?

Hehe yes as far as I know - still not tested the timer with the new rig yet, that will come tomorrow when I have time to tend to the garden and get it set up for 18/6. For now the babies can bathe for 24 hours in 400W of light. They will enjoy it

FlashBabylon · May 6, 2014

indicaheaven said:
HID lighting requires igniteers for hps, and other heated elements in MH.
These elements need to cool down, before than can be "Re-Sparked"
This is referred to as the restrike time.

That figures, thanks for confirming what I thought.

waterdawg · May 7, 2014

Me thinks it might have been the bulb! Lol

greasemonkeymann · May 7, 2014

droopy107 said:
If you are blowing a fuse that is part of your ballast cord, you have a problem with the cord or the ballast itself. The other equipment you listed are upstream of the fuse that is blowing, therefore they are not part of the problem. Only a load after the fuse or breaker will cause it to let go. If I'm understanding you correctly, this fuse is a integral part of the cord that is directly attached to the ballast. If this is the case, the only possible culprits are the parts of your HID equipment.

Also, it must be a developing problem because you said you have been running this equipment 24/7 before you tried the timer in the circuit. Somewhere in the cord/ballast/hood you've got a dead short to ground that only makes contact when things get twisted/ squeezed in just the right way. I would say the cord is most likely the culprit because the cord is the piece you most likely moved around the most, but it could be anywhere in the lighting system.
These are the kind of issues that growers need to take very seriously.
I've been in the electrical trades for a long time now and I can tell you that if I couldn't conclusively find that problem, I would shut that thing down right now and get a new one. It's a fire waiting to happen.

If you decide to roll the dice, at least keep the cord/ballast away from anything flammable.

i'm an smog technician, and in order for me to keep my licenses and certs I have to be certified in electronics also, and this post is a GOOD one, we really should consider making a sticky about blowing circuits/fuse panels, (is there one?) dead to ground shorts will KILL you FAST. If that short decides you make a better ground, then you'll be getting 115v at god knows what amperage (usually at least 15)
Shorts, and blown circuit breakers should almost ALWAYS be inspected by a qualified person.
scary shit fellas
I really believe that when/if CA legalizes, part of the procedure should be getting an "ok" from an electrician saying your setup is safe.

waterdawg · May 7, 2014

greasemonkeymann said:
i'm an smog technician, and in order for me to keep my licenses and certs I have to be certified in electronics also, and this post is a GOOD one, we really should consider making a sticky about blowing circuits/fuse panels, (is there one?) dead to ground shorts will KILL you FAST. If that short decides you make a better ground, then you'll be getting 115v at god knows what amperage (usually at least 15)
Shorts, and blown circuit breakers should almost ALWAYS be inspected by a qualified person.
scary shit fellas
I really believe that when/if CA legalizes, part of the procedure should be getting an "ok" from an electrician saying your setup is safe.

He had the wrong wattage of bulb. That is the reason the inline circuit breaker failed. Capacitor's in ballast were the wrong size for a 400 watt bulb!

FlashBabylon · May 7, 2014

Actually it seems it was restrike time that was the culprit. Wrong wattage just made me feel even more of an idiot!

waterdawg · May 8, 2014

Hmmm guess my light (Ace) is different as it has a time delay built in if turned of and on it just wont light until ready and wont pop breaker. I would have thought wrong wattage would have done something with amp draw. I work on motors a lot and if capacitor is wrong size for them they will pop internal overloads. Guess I need to learn more about light operation. I built a ballast years ago for HPS. Never dealt with MH .

indicaheaven · May 8, 2014

Restrike time wouldnt have anything to do with blown breakers/fuses. It just prevents the light from lighting up.

greasemonkeymann · May 8, 2014

waterdawg said:
He had the wrong wattage of bulb. That is the reason the inline circuit breaker failed. Capacitor's in ballast were the wrong size for a 400 watt bulb!

ok, but I still stand by statement, and i'm a proud stoner, but I really think any grow op over 7.5 amps should be professionally checked.

FlashBabylon · May 9, 2014

indicaheaven said:
Restrike time wouldnt have anything to do with blown breakers/fuses. It just prevents the light from lighting up.

Yeah, but me being a naive noob and not knowing about restrike time meant I may well have misdiagnosed restrike time as a blown fuse - by the time I've gone to the toolbox, got a fuse, unscrewed the plug, fitted the fuse and got it all plugged in again, 15 mins is up

greasemonkeymann said:
ok, but I still stand by statement, and i'm a proud stoner, but I really think any grow op over 7.5 amps should be professionally checked.

I think my 600 watt dimmable ballast only draws about 2.5 -3 amps. I could be wrong.

waterdawg · May 9, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Yeah, but me being a naive noob and not knowing about restrike time meant I may well have misdiagnosed restrike time as a blown fuse - by the time I've gone to the toolbox, got a fuse, unscrewed the plug, fitted the fuse and got it all plugged in again, 15 mins is up

I think my 600 watt dimmable ballast only draws about 2.5 -3 amps. I could be wrong.

5.217 by my calculations if 115 volt supply. Just glad everything is working lol. And yes if a legal grow then electrical inspection is a great ideal. If illegal he better be a really good friend lol.

nflguy · May 9, 2014

Why would it be necessary to run your lights 24/7 during veg? The VAST majority of growers run 18/6

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