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Amos Otis said:

What do you have faith in, regarding N America's safety and security?

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The people, the government to a limited degree. Part of the financial system, but I strongly desire further oversight and regulations geared towards the working class. The ideals of America, of hard work, innovation, the ability to change, albeit slowly.

But Americans are good, generous people. They are hard working, and they are what makes America great. We've been a beacon of freedom, even in the light of past digressions.

TonightYou said:

The people, the government to a limited degree. Part of the financial system, but I strongly desire further oversight and regulations geared towards the working class. The ideals of America, of hard work, innovation, the ability to change, albeit slowly.

But Americans are good, generous people. They are hard working, and they are what makes America great. We've been a beacon of freedom, even in the light of past digressions.

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Boy, you and I disagree on that. I have no faith in government, and even less in the financial system. Both so wrought in corruption that it makes me curl up in the fetal position when I start thinking about it

TonightYou said:

The people, the government to a limited degree. Part of the financial system, but I strongly desire further oversight and regulations geared towards the working class. The ideals of America, of hard work, innovation, the ability to change, albeit slowly.

But Americans are good, generous people. They are hard working, and they are what makes America great. We've been a beacon of freedom, even in the light of past digressions.

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If I didn't know better, I'd swear you stole that post from Bill O'Reilly.

Per the last paragraph, I'd stand by it more 20 years ago. Today it applies to far less than 50%, especially regarding 'hard working'. The employable unemployed living off welfare / gov't handouts is one of liberal democrats largest voting blocks.

Most anyone observing social trends the past several years can easily spot the multitude of divisions in this country alone; race, religion, economic, language are just a few. The days when this country could unite for common cause vs a catastrophic event, are most likely long gone, imo. When/if panic and chaos arrives, there will still be 'good, generous people'. Unfortunately, far too few of them.

Now....about you stocking up on canned goods....and guns......good strategy?

st0wandgrow said:

Boy, you and I disagree on that. I have no faith in government, and even less in the financial system. Both so wrought in corruption that it makes me curl up in the fetal position when I start thinking about it

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Fair enough, I do think the financial system is fucked and needs work, to be more specific I am referring to the full faith and credit act.

The fact we have successive, peaceful elections and government transfers is a sign of a functioning government. I've always seen politics as a pendulum, I think we are slowly swing back to more liberalism and progress. Particularly with the Republicans and conservatism slowly strangling itself as voter demographics change. In fact if it wasn't for district packing, republicans would have even less positions in government. That too will work itself out before the next redistricting.

It's easy to be a pessimist and I agree with you on issues but I'd rather have optimism towards the future.

Amos Otis said:

If I didn't know better, I'd swear you stole that post from Bill O'Reilly.

Per the last paragraph, I'd stand by it more 20 years ago. Today it applies to far less than 50%, especially regarding 'hard working'. The employable unemployed living off welfare / gov't handouts is one of liberal democrats largest voting blocks.

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Did you ever think wage stagnation, globalization and the fact low wage employees working full time are not compensated for their labor fairly? That the largest employer Walmart is a corporation which forces workers on to these programs?

I fully believe in a living wage, that no full time worker should be forced into poverty by low wages.

Most anyone observing social trends the past several years can easily spot the multitude of divisions in this country alone; race, religion, economic, language are just a few. The days when this country could unite for common cause vs a catastrophic event, are most likely long gone, imo. When/if panic and chaos arrives, there will still be 'good, generous people'. Unfortunately, far too few of them.

Now....about you stocking up on canned goods....and guns......good strategy?

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Yes and I love the transformation. Less religious nonsense, more acceptance of people with different lifestyles, cannabis legalization.

See above for economics. We are one of only a few developed nations without universal healthcare, with financial barriers to higher education, without living wage standards, pensions for all workers not being forced to live in poverty upon retirement....

Yeah bill O'Reilly and I are certainly on the same page

st0wandgrow said:

Boy, you and I disagree on that. I have no faith in government, and even less in the financial system. Both so wrought in corruption that it makes me curl up in the fetal position when I start thinking about it

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I'd say that corporations have had their way with campaign donations and "outsourcing". I'm all about campaign finance reform and realizing public goods are just that, public goods.

Shit, you know how crazy Snyder has been and how fucked that Aramark contract is. That's no way to protect a public good, and a business man often has no clue as to the difference between government and private enterprise. Expertise in one, does not mean competence in the other.

TonightYou said:

I'd say that corporations have had their way with campaign donations and "outsourcing". I'm all about campaign finance reform and realizing public goods are just that, public goods.

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You won't hear any disagreement from me on this. Campaign finance reform has to happen. Politicians being sold to the highest corporate bidder creates problems that anyone should be able to see and acknowledge. I'd like to see an election process similar to Canada's. each parties nominee gets an identical amount of public funds, and a set amount of time to campaign. May the best man/woman win. No more of this ridiculously wasteful fund raising and 18 month campaign season (all while they are sitting elected officials that are supposed to be focused on their JOB)!

The other huge issue to me, which goes hand in hand with this is the Supreme Court ruling on corporations being people. That opened Pandora's box and needs to be eliminated as soon as possible.

United States of (corporate) America

st0wandgrow said:

You won't hear any disagreement from me on this. Campaign finance reform has to happen. Politicians being sold to the highest corporate bidder creates problems that anyone should be able to see and acknowledge. I'd like to see an election process similar to Canada's. each parties nominee gets an identical amount of public funds, and a set amount of time to campaign. May the best man/woman win. No more of this ridiculously wasteful fund raising and 18 month campaign season (all while they are sitting elected officials that are supposed to be focused on their JOB)!

The other huge issue to me, which goes hand in hand with this is the Supreme Court ruling on corporations being people. That opened Pandora's box and needs to be eliminated as soon as possible.

United States of (corporate) America

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I really have issues with that ruling. I've read most of it, and the arguments laid forth are sound (doesnt mean I like it at all). I cringe having to admit it.

I think there are ways to fix it. Of course corporations should have some rights (property, autonomy), but they should be limited in scope. Last I checked corporations don't have sex, give birth, raise families, and die. It was a ruling where speech = money. Corporations have interests of course but these voices are usually in direct conflict internally (public traded corporations) and usually try to get away with anything that would affect their bottom line.

TonightYou said:

That the largest employer Walmart is a corporation which forces workers on to these programs?

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Fortunately, in my area, we've had no sightings of a Wal-Mart goon squad herding unwilling citizens to the personnel department.

Coincidentally, there have also been no reports of Wal-Mart goon squads executing employees that decide to no longer work there.

TonightYou said:

Yes and I love the transformation. Less religious nonsense, more acceptance of people with different lifestyles, cannabis legalization.

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Yes ! Acceptance !

And just scan any news site to see how well all the different folks are getting along!

The problem with all this new 'acceptance':
there's a growing segment that demands and receives acceptance while refusing to extend the same. [ some refer to this as 'being played as fools', and I'm definitely one of those.]

Care to elaborate? I fail to see how acceptance of others is infringing on your rights, but perhaps your experience is different than mine in that regard.

Apparently you missed my point, and don't understand how low wage employment harms many. But I'll let you know if I see goon squads

TonightYou said:

Care to elaborate? I fail to see how acceptance of others is infringing on your rights,

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Maybe you should direct that to the family, friends and co-workers of a beheaded woman in OK, the parents of a murdered teenager in NJ, and to the families, friends, and comrades of over a dozen soldiers at Ft Hood.

For starters.

If you can't see it, it's only because you refuse to do so..

Acceptance gone amuck.

Amos Otis said:

Maybe you should direct that to the family, friends and co-workers of a beheaded woman in OK, the parents of a murdered teenager in NJ, and to the families, friends, and comrades of over a dozen soldiers at Ft Hood.

For starters.

If you can't see it, it's only because you refuse to do so..

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You can accept others views without condoning their actions.

Let me pull an Amos,

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/us/2-california-deputies-are-killed-in-rampage.html?_r=1&referrer=

Man is out shooting cops! Who will stop such anarchy in society!

Or

http://gawker.com/shooting-reported-at-washington-high-school-1650402197

Damn white society, another mass school shooting! What is wrong with these terrible white folks? When will society stop accepting white people's violence?

Both if these types of incidents are far more common in our society, and far less worrisome than Islamic followers

Striking Gold said:

You can accept others views without condoning their actions.

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That's absolutely rediculous. Their actions are dictated by their views.

TonightYou said:

Man is out shooting cops! Who will stop such anarchy in society!

Or

Damn white society, another mass school shooting! What is wrong with these terrible white folks? When will society stop accepting white people's violence?

Both if these types of incidents are far more common in our society, and far less worrisome than Islamic followers

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I've been expecting this type post for days.

TY - seriously: how does posting more examples of societal chaos equal minimizing another?

If you think I think the only imminent threat to free N America is murdering Muslims, then let me quickly extinguish that thought. They are just the most recent, and most determined. Oh, and the fastest growing segment [by light years]. If they were a single, isolated threat, gov't could throw all it's muscle in that sole direction. As you conveniently post, they're just the icing on a cake - if you can imagine a cake built like an upside down triangle.

How many folks do you figure have now abandoned a planned career in military or law enforcement - you know....the people most citizens count on to keep them safe? Tons of articles on the net about the flood of cops and border patrol leaving for most any other profession. [ these would not be the corrupt cops who play both sides of the laws, btw.]

Cops responding to 911 first have to guard against an ambush. Their safety before yours. You simply cannot depend on others to protect you when the protectors are targets themselves. This is the dawn of a new reality in the formerly 'free world', amigo.

"Things ain't like they used to be...and this ain't the summer of love" - Blue Oyster Cult
"Prepare yourself...you know it's a must." - Norman Greenbaum
"I wanna put on...my my my my my boogie shoes." - KC and the Sunshine Band

Here's a read for you. What do you suppose the chances are of a couple crazed Muslims kidnapping a citizen here, and staging an execution video? Probably pretty easy to do, since there's usually a couple dozen investigations ongoing at any one time for missing co-eds, neighbors, kids, partiers, etc......

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/world/middleeast/horror-before-the-beheadings-what-isis-hostages-endured-in-syria.html?_r=0

Amos Otis said:

That's absolutely rediculous. Their actions are dictated by their views.

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Your wrong, people don't always act on what they believe. You can believe the earth is round but does that make you do anything? No

Well flip your question, why are you elevating one threat over another?

People are kidnapped and killed everyday in America. We are a country of over 300 million, it's bound to happen.

Teachers are leaving the career everyday due to shit conditions, low pay, and being demonized. Why no uproar on that? I have ex police in my family and to be honest, they are racists pieces of shit. I also know police from the burbs of my old hood, and the same can be said for them. They do get nice pensions, awesome overtime and for the most part job security. I agree with you on safety of yourself first and foremost and that's not to say I can't handle myself. But shit does happen

TonightYou said:

Let me pull an Amos,

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/us/2-california-deputies-are-killed-in-rampage.html?_r=1&referrer=

Man is out shooting cops! Who will stop such anarchy in society!

Or

http://gawker.com/shooting-reported-at-washington-high-school-1650402197

Damn white society, another mass school shooting! What is wrong with these terrible white folks? When will society stop accepting white people's violence?

Both if these types of incidents are far more common in our society, and far less worrisome than Islamic followers

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The reason they are less worrisome is because in every event like this the government has a training drill the day or two before it happens. I don't believe that it is a coincidence, I also find it funny how the swat team changed their website to appear like they never did a training session.

Amos Otis said:

Here's a read for you. What do you suppose the chances are of a couple crazed Muslims kidnapping a citizen here, and staging an execution video? Probably pretty easy to do, since there's usually a couple dozen investigations ongoing at any one time for missing co-eds, neighbors, kids, partiers, etc......

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/world/middleeast/horror-before-the-beheadings-what-isis-hostages-endured-in-syria.html?_r=0

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those isis beheadings were fake as fuck