QAUNTUM BOARD vs HID heat difference

[JungleSlut]

So I'm curious

Does 3.4 btu per 1 watt apply to all forms of lighting?

I mean is a watt a watt no matter how u look at?
Or is HID hest different than LED heat

How much heat would a 480 watt QB give off?
Does the diodes themselves put off heat or is it the 480 watt meanwell driver giving off the heat or a combination of both


Are there differeng types of heat when it comes to lighting or is it all the same

Reason im asking is I'm trying to avoid AC by running all quantums.

As of this moment in 8x8

1x600 watt hps
1x630 watt cob\blurple
1x315 watt cmh
1x480 watt quantum board

I need another light to replace the 600 watt HID
I've just dropped 900 dollars on two lights this week I'd hate to have to drop another 580 but I mean if that's what its gonna take to avoid AC down the road and save money on electricity well........you know.......
Or maybe I just go with another 315 watt cmh........?
580 for a kingbrite quantum or 315 for a sunsystem cmh........
But that would mean I still have 600 watts of cmh total and 1000 watts of led
And since.im trying to avoid AC. Maybe another QB would be a better choice

 

[sethimus]

and that, kids, is why you should not drop out of school

 

[Rocket Soul]

So I'm curious

Does 3.4 btu per 1 watt apply to all forms of lighting?

I mean is a watt a watt no matter how u look at?
Or is HID hest different than LED heat

How much heat would a 480 watt QB give off?
Does the diodes themselves put off heat or is it the 480 watt meanwell driver giving off the heat or a combination of both


Are there differeng types of heat when it comes to lighting or is it all the same

Reason im asking is I'm trying to avoid AC by running all quantums.

As of this moment in 8x8

1x600 watt hps
1x630 watt cob\blurple
1x315 watt cmh
1x480 watt quantum board

I need another light to replace the 600 watt HID
I've just dropped 900 dollars on two lights this week I'd hate to have to drop another 580 but I mean if that's what its gonna take to avoid AC down the road and save money on electricity well........you know.......
Or maybe I just go with another 315 watt cmh........?
580 for a kingbrite quantum or 315 for a sunsystem cmh........
But that would mean I still have 600 watts of cmh total and 1000 watts of led
And since.im trying to avoid AC. Maybe another QB would be a better choice

Id drop the HPS and go led + cmh; both work well in higher (+80F) temps. Hps needs lower than 80. So makes more sense.

 

[JungleSlut]

Id drop the HPS and go led + cmh; both work well in higher (+80F) temps. Hps needs lower than 80. So makes more sense.

Cheers thanks bro.
I might save more up front going with another cmh right now, but if I wanted.to end up with all QB i could throw the cmh I have now in my veg tent

 

[Rocket Soul]

On the whole "a watt is a watt" question: im not touching that, its one of the trolliest subjects ever. Physics seems to say a wattbis a watt, but irl 600w of hps (no cool tube) seems to run hotter than 600w of led

 

[JungleSlut]

On the whole "a watt is a watt" question: im not touching that, its one of the trolliest subjects ever. Physics seems to say a wattbis a watt, but irl 600w of hps (no cool tube) seems to run hotter than 600w of led

Was having a hard.time.finding anything on google so figured wha the hell I'd ask

 

[OneHitDone]

and that, kids, is why you should not drop out of school

And there he is fucking off another thread.
If you really know every fucking thing as you seem to think you do, why don't you engage the OP's question in an intelligent and helpful manner?
Or at least point him in the right direction if you know there are threads where this has been discussed in detail?
A handful of bozo's are making this led section one of the most hostile places on the net.
If you don't like talking about things led and grow related in a helpful way why are you even here?

 

[growingforfun]

My opinion is a watt is a watt. However it may be easier to cool some lights than others a well placed fan on a qb or a well ducted hps, theres a lot of ways to skin a cat and cool a room

 

[auswolf]

No a watt isn't a watt.
Lumens per watt, the more lumens created(light) per watt, means less energy will be lost as heat.

 

[Norml56]

IMO QB 288 boards get pretty fucking hot when ran at the full 150 watts. without fans at full power they reach 160+ F. each. supposedly takes 6boards to fill my 5x5 effectively that's a lot of heat spread all over the place that you have to remove. The drivers get hot a well. They should be remoted like a typical HID.

If you already own an run all these types of lighting you already know how much light they create... what do you need us for?
Also where are you buying your CMH setups from? An entire setup should only run you about 300$ in the states. I would take CMH over QB boards if I was in the buying market. They almost replace a 600 HPS and have an awesome spectrum with added UV light and IMO produce less heat then 315 watts of LED.

 

[JungleSlut]

and that, kids, is why you should not drop out of school

If you already own an run all these types of lighting you already know how much light they create... what do you need us for?
Also where are you buying your CMH setups from? An entire setup should only run you about 300$ in the states.

This is my first grow. I work on a drilling rig. I left home 14 days ago for work and dont get home for another 20 or so.
My wifes looking after things. The QB and the CMH didnt arrive till i was at work. The QB just arrived today. She hasnt hung it up yet. She just put the cmh up 3 days ago

I paid 350 canadian for a 315watt sunsystem CMH with a Phillip's 4100k bulb.
That's roughly 290 usd

I asked because I needed an answer. If I already knew the answer why would I ask?
Noone says you have to answer the question..I just asked to get a better idea what.might be dealing with to take a bit ofthe work load off my dear wife while I'm away.

 

[OneHitDone]

This is my first grow. I work on a drilling rig. I left home 14 days ago for work and dont get home for another 20 or so.
My wifes looking after things. The QB and the CMH didnt arrive till i was at work. The QB just arrived today. She hasnt hung it up yet. She just put the cmh up 3 days ago

I paid 350 canadian for a 315watt sunsystem CMH with a Phillip's 4100k bulb.
That's roughly 290 usd

I asked because I needed an answer. If I already knew the answer why would I ask?
Noone says you have to answer the question..I just asked to get a better idea what.might be dealing with to take a bit ofthe work load off my dear wife while I'm away.

I think if it were me I would first look at the layout from a lighting perspective with heat secondary.
Is your plan to have 1 light over each 4x4?

 

[JungleSlut]

I think if it were me I would first look at the layout from a lighting perspective with heat secondary.
Is your plan to have 1 light over each 4x4?

Correct.

 

[CobKits]

a watt is a watt.

led lets you use less watts for same light output

 

[pthobson]

a watt is a watt.

led lets you use less watts for same light output

Exactly.

 

[JungleSlut]

I think if it were me I would first look at the layout from a lighting perspective with heat secondary.
Is your plan to have 1 light over each 4x4?

a watt is a watt.

led lets you use less watts for same light output

This is the info I was interested in thank you much.


@OneHitDone
One side of my tent is in a 3.5'x8 foot section
Other side is 3.5' x 7 foot section due to the entrance and isle down the middle.

So realistically each light will cover a.roughly 4x4 section.

So running 2x 315 cmh down the smaller side shouldnt be an issue with coverage. And running those quantum boards down the other side would work as.well.
Maybe I should just get another cmh for now save myself some money. Get the grow done then work on that second quantum board.

Cheers

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

1W = 3.41BTU/hr = 1J/s = all the same thing, it never changes.

Heat in a grow room is defined as ambient, or air temperature. Energy can be in many different forms, thermal is only 1 form. Light is another. When light is absorbed it imparts its energy to the absorbing material, at this point light is converted to heat. Air is pretty much "see through" so light isn't really being absorbed by the air, it's passing through it.

An HID might be 45% effecient, meaning that 45% of the supplied wattage is being converted to light. This means the remaining 55% is being converted to thermal, or kinetic expansion. This 55% is the largest contributor to ambient temperature rise because the air doesnt absorb the 45% really at all. The 55% wasted heat is being convected to the grow room air right away.

The density of air is tiny, it's actually ~864× less dense than nylon 6, or the material Im assuming (for sale or argument) they used to build the tents.

STP air = 0.001225g/cm3


Nylon 6 = 1.084g/cm3


(1.084g/cm3) ÷ (0.0011225g/cm3)
=
864

Nylon 6 has a cp of 1.7kJ/kg·K, and air has a cp of 1.006kJ/kg·K. That means that it takes 1.7kJ of energy to raise 1kg of nylon 6 by 1°C (K denotes a Kelvin temperature, but it's the same as Celcius, it just starts at 0 instead of having negative numbers like Celcius, ie -298C° = 0°K) and 1.006kJ of energy to raise 1kg of air by 1°C. So nylon can accept more energy than air before its temperature raises, in fact nylon 6 can hold about 70% more energy than air per °C.

Air cp = 1.006kJ/kg·K


Nylon 6 cp = 1.7kJ/kg·K


In a 4'×4'×7' tent there's ~3.17m3 of volume, or air.
Lets assume there's 25lbs of nylon used to make the tent. That's ~11.36kg.

Mass of air per TENT:
(1.225kg/m3) × (3.17m3) = 3.88kg

Energy required to move TENT AIR by 1°C:
(1.006kJ/kg·K) × (3.88kg of air)
=
3.9kJ needed to raise the tent air 1°C

Energy required to move TENT WALLS by 1°C:
(1.7kJ/kg·K) × (11.36kg of nylon 6)
=
19.31kJ needed to raise the tent walls by 1°C

Inside a tent it takes 19.6kJ to raise tent walls 1°C and only 3.9kJ to raise tent air by 1°C. The tent walls can absorb about 5× as much energy than the tent air needs in order to raise the temp by 1°C.

All this, ... the difference in mass between tent walls & air, the difference in cp's (ie the reduced ability to absorb energy without raising its temp) between the tent walls and air, the fact that air doesn't absorb light energy, ...all that, means that a light that has a greater % of its energy being emitted as light will have a smaller rate of change (in terms of ambient heat) than a light that has a greater % of it's energy being emitted as heat. In both cases the fixture is consuming X watts, or X BTUs, but because the different rates of thermal increase (due to the different cp's and different %s of energy being transferred to different parts of the grow room, ie air or tent walls) the rate at which you notice a temp change will be different. Because you're exhausting and not in a closed system the rate that the thermal gradient develops is a huge factor. Thus you can say that a more effecient light will be cooler, or a lesser impact on air temperature than a lesser effecient light, despite both consuming the same wattage.

If the tent didn't exhaust or convect to the grow room air, or if the tent was a true closed system,... then yes, over time, 1000W of high effeciency LED will change the temp of the tent and all its contents to the same temperature as 1000W of lower effeciency HID, but the tent isn't a closed system, so equating all energy to heat immediately, or saying that all enegy is transferred to the air immediately is incorrect.

 

[growingforfun]

I think that the arguement that led runs cooler is weak at best... at worst it's people with little real experaince influenced by others. Having ran hps for many years I can promise it is easy peasy to cool. I ran 2kw all summer without ac, in a very hot location. I've also ran led in the past and just got a quantum board.

I've never noticed a differance in heat per watt no matter if its led, cmh, or hps. Last year I had 100 watts of led heat up my 3x3 veg as much as my 1kw hps would heat up my 6x6.

In practice it's all much the same to me.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I think that the arguement that led runs cooler is weak at best... at worst it's people with little real experaince influenced by others. Having ran hps for many years I can promise it is easy peasy to cool. I ran 2kw all summer without ac, in a very hot location. I've also ran led in the past and just got a quantum board.

I've never noticed a differance in heat per watt no matter if its led, cmh, or hps. Last year I had 100 watts of led heat up my 3x3 veg as much as my 1kw hps would heat up my 6x6.

In practice it's all much the same to me.

If air exhaust is kept at equal rates, a more effecient light source will create less ambient temp rise than a less effecient light source.

Heat flows from hot to cold, this is important because when you use the entire surface area of the tent to dissipate the light portion of the fixture energy, the temp of the tent walls is small (and also has a 70% greater cp), so it has less of a gradient to flow enegy across before its equalized, which means it flows at a slow rate. When half of the fixtures enegy is kept in a small form factor like a light bulb or ballast, then the gradient is much greater at the fixture-air boundary, and the enegy flows from the hot fixture to the air much faster. On top of this, the tent walls will absorb 5x as much light energy as the air can absorb the hot portion of the fixture, and in a low effecient fixture the hot portion is the greatest % of the enegy output. This means the air increases temp much faster from the hot portion of the light compared to the air temp increase of an equivalent amount of energy that's transferred to the tent walls, plants, pots, water, ect, and then onto the air. The fixture doesn't have a huge surface area connected to the outside air or floor, and has to dissipate a greater % of energy than the tent walls do for a low effecient fixture. Also, the hot portion of the fixture can't dissipate energy to the outside air like the tent walls can, the hot portion of the fixture can only dissipate enegy to the inside of the tent.

A hot fixture is your enemy when talking about ambient temp rise. You have to isolate the air that the hot portion comes into contact with, ie a cool tube, and/or increase exhaust rates to notice the same ambient temp rise as a high effecient fixture. There's a thread on here where someone goes through and explains it with graphs ect, but if you don't understand thermodynamics or at least the basis, you probably will end up disagreeing.

In the most extreme cases it's maybe an effeciency delta of 20%, so while there is a huge difference when comparing the total ambient air temp increase due to the % energy being transferred to the tent air vs the total ambient air temp increase due to the % energy being transferred to the tent wall (considering equal energies applied), both those types of fixtures will still produce a hot portion, so altogether it makes a noticeable difference but theres no free lunch, you'll still have to vent QBs under most circumstances..

One day ppl will start to see I'm not just talking out my ass lol.. One day..

 

[newguy41410]

1000 watts of LED will likely generate the same amount of heat as 1000 watts of HID and id bet 1000 watts of CFLs would be comparable heat-wise.

As far as efficiency goes, the LED may be more efficient than the other HIDs so that you can run less wattage LED to replace that 600-watt HID.

if that answers your question?

but if you think you can replace a 600-watt HPS with a 600-watt LED and run cooler temps you would be wrong for the most part I think