Projections of ACA impact on 2014 elections

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Or door #3, don't sign up, tell them to take their fine and shit in their hat.
Don't under estimate the coercive power of government. Ultimately, they will make you an offer you can't refuse. As Doug Casey said of US politics and politicians, "it's too late to fix the problems and too early to cut off their heads".
 

see4

Well-Known Member
What is this "your party" business? What you just said applies to both parties. Whichever party is out of office: doom and gloom, country gone to hell. Whichever party is in office: everything is peachy, getting better! Welcome to politics. You don't win elections from the outside telling people that things are great; likewise, you don't stay inside telling people that things are terrible.

I'm not treating it as a game, the politicians on both sides and the political hacks on both sides are, because they really don't care about making this country better so much as they care about winning and having power for themselves.
Right. So lets limit their terms. Lets tax the rich for a while, lets create jobs by investing in domestic infrastructure, lets bring our troops home and cut defense spending by half. Let's make progress. You have something wrong with that?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The simple truth is, the price for insurance is going to rise dramatically and lots of people are going to be kicked off their current insurance.
what you just described is what happened in the 20 years before the PPACA was passed.

premiums tripled in that time, and insurance companies gave the boot to anyone who might cost them too much.

health care costs are holding steady now instead of continuing to go up, so if you see premiums rise and blame it on the PPACA, you are a fucking idiot.

but that last part is already a given anyway.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
That is what your party is all about. Doom and gloom, until you have control of office and then everything is peachy. It's not a game, yet you treat it as such.
Dang, you are a hip cat. You see through all the smoke and slight of hand. You make money in down markets and up markets. You are just a better human than the rest of us. You probably have 20/5 vision and can smell the tiniest drop of urine on an angel's penis from a thousand yards, take one spoonful of soup and recite the recipe, dictate the "great American novel" while juggling babies.

You write in a style similar to El Tiberon. Somebody's hand is up El Tib's ass, my money is on your's.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
There's Bernie Sanders in the senate, but he's been largely muted. While I'd agree there are left wing elements within the Green Party, it is an umbrella party, and when you take into account it's strange eco capitalist and reform minded liberals it's hard to call it "left wing". Maybe center-left.
If the American version of the Green-Party is like Canada's, it would be considered Social-Democrat (ala old NDP).
In a two dimensional model (i.e. compass), it would be fair to say minor 3rd quadrant (depending on axial definitions).
Limiting ideological analysis to a simple linear model is anachronistic and should be avoided, even in discussion with laymen.
But that's just my opinion... which won't mean much in 7 years outside of a footnote in obscurity :lol:
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
what you just described is what happened in the 20 years before the PPACA was passed.

premiums tripled in that time, and insurance companies gave the boot to anyone who might cost them too much.

health care costs are holding steady now instead of continuing to go up, so if you see premiums rise and blame it on the PPACA, you are a fucking idiot.

but that last part is already a given anyway.
Premiums have doubled in many locales since ACA passed. Hundreds of thousands of existing policies have been cancelled since ACA passed.

Obama said, "if you like your current insurance, you can keep it". He neglected to say, "If ACA passes, your existing insurance might not keep you". The O is a crafty devil.

If you claim insurance costs are holding steady, you are a lying propagandist twat. That is a given.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Premiums have doubled in many locales since ACA passed. Hundreds of thousands of existing policies have been cancelled since ACA passed.

Obama said, "if you like your current insurance, you can keep it". He neglected to say, "If ACA passes, your existing insurance might not keep you". The O is a crafty devil.

If you claim insurance costs are holding steady, you are a lying propagandist twat. That is a given.
i said "health care costs" have been holding steady, you unadulterated imbecile.

health care costs have been holding steady for years, so if you premiums have doubled lately, don't blame the PPACA. and if you do blame the PPACA, be prepared to be called out as the drooling partisan retard that you clearly are.

health care costs are the same, premiums continue to rise, who do you blame?

think about it, thumbellina.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
There's Bernie Sanders in the senate, but he's been largely muted. While I'd agree there are left wing elements within the Green Party, it is an umbrella party, and when you take into account it's strange eco capitalist and reform minded liberals it's hard to call it "left wing". Maybe center-left.
It is the only one that is to the left of center, but I agree, not far from center.
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
Don't under estimate the coercive power of government. Ultimately, they will make you an offer you can't refuse. As Doug Casey said of US politics and politicians, "it's too late to fix the problems and too early to cut off their heads".
Don't underestimate the coercive power of big business, who control the government and use it for their protection.
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
If the American version of the Green-Party is like Canada's, it would be considered Social-Democrat (ala old NDP).
In a two dimensional model (i.e. compass), it would be fair to say minor 3rd quadrant (depending on axial definitions).
Limiting ideological analysis to a simple linear model is anachronistic and should be avoided, even in discussion with laymen.
But that's just my opinion... which won't mean much in 7 years outside of a footnote in obscurity :lol:
I think the linear model should be used especially with "laymen", considering that third party attributes can be attached (and often are, especially in European politics) when needed. Ideally, it would be a three dimensional political web, but you'd lose 99% of your audience.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Right. So lets limit their terms. Lets tax the rich for a while, lets create jobs by investing in domestic infrastructure, lets bring our troops home and cut defense spending by half. Let's make progress. You have something wrong with that?
I don't believe in term limits, the rich are already paying almost all of the tax burden, and "investing in domestic infrastructure" won't create very many jobs (and not very many permanent ones). I would love to go through the defense budget and make cuts though.

Your path is not a magical path to prosperity if only we would commit to it, even though you announce it as if it were.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
i said "health care costs" have been holding steady, you unadulterated imbecile.

health care costs have been holding steady for years, so if you premiums have doubled lately, don't blame the PPACA. and if you do blame the PPACA, be prepared to be called out as the drooling partisan retard that you clearly are.

health care costs are the same, premiums continue to rise, who do you blame?

think about it, thumbellina.

You are painfully obtuse, Marie.


"A comprehensive 50-state study has found that insurance premiums will increase under the first year of Obamacare in 45 of 50 states. This finding flies in the face of President Obama's promise that his health care overhaul would cause premiums "for the typical family" to fall by $2500."

http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/20/health-insurance-premiums-projected-to-s







** The following picture has nothing to do with UncleBuck and is purely coincidental.

 

see4

Well-Known Member
Dang, you are a hip cat. You see through all the smoke and slight of hand. You make money in down markets and up markets. You are just a better human than the rest of us. You probably have 20/5 vision and can smell the tiniest drop of urine on an angel's penis from a thousand yards, take one spoonful of soup and recite the recipe, dictate the "great American novel" while juggling babies.

You write in a style similar to El Tiberon. Somebody's hand is up El Tib's ass, my money is on your's.
I have 20/15 vision, when I was younger it was 20/10. My sense of smell is not as good as it used to be. I do make money in up markets and in down markets. It's called having a background in Finance and friends in the industry. There is no doubt in most everyone's mind here that I am a better human being than people like you and tokerprep and others. No question. Soap? What's soap? Im too busy being so fucking awesome, I don't have time for soap. Ain't nobody got time for that. I tried juggling babies once, i had a 1 year old and an 18 month old in my hands.

Curious, what is "your's"?
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
What are the numbers based off? Does it account for inflation?
This chart looks like an older Milliman Medical Index. In 2013 the cost has risen to about $22,000, which is the cost of providing insurance for a family of four. It's not inflation-adjusted, but inflation wouldn't account for much of the year-over-year change in any year.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
You are painfully obtuse, Marie.


"A comprehensive 50-state study has found that insurance premiums will increase under the first year of Obamacare in 45 of 50 states. This finding flies in the face of President Obama's promise that his health care overhaul would cause premiums "for the typical family" to fall by $2500."

http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/20/health-insurance-premiums-projected-to-s







** The following picture has nothing to do with UncleBuck and is purely coincidental.
Charts brought to you by the Heritage Foundation. The single most conservative far right leaning organization in the country, besides the Republican party itself.

Care to share with us something other than biased bullshit?

I can tell you for one, that insurance premiums are far less in a dozen states that I know of so far. MA, AZ, CT, CA, VT, ME, NH, NJ, FL and I will need to look up the others I forget off the top of my head.

Personally, my insurance premiums are slightly less now than they were 6 years ago when I was working for IBM, who has the single largest insurance pool in the country. My premiums and benefits were amazing.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
This chart looks like an older Milliman Medical Index. In 2013 the cost has risen to about $22,000, which is the cost of providing insurance for a family of four. It's not inflation-adjusted, but inflation wouldn't account for much of the year-over-year change in any year.
It would account for roughly 3% increase year over year. But now that I have you in this corner, let's stay here for a moment.

Healthcare costs are rising, for arguments sake, "tremendously". If doctor's salaries have declined by an average of 10% over the past decade, and medical assisting positions have also ran stagnant, where is the money going? Remember, this is not insurance, this is healthcare costs. Where is the money going? My bet is on hospitals, because they are being treated as free market enterprises. Would you care to share your opinion on this?
 
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